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Taking the Bull by the Horns

PPRM said:
Some thoughts....From a guy that does sell his own...

I like Carey's "Just do it yourself if you want it done right" attitude. I hear guys raving over how they are "Marketing" thier cattle cause they get a $3-8/ cwt premium on calves that grade CAB...That is 3-5 Dollars on the hanging wieght BTW.......So, lets call it $35 a head or so.....

I am not really knocking this as it does add up. My point is the size of a premium if you let someone else do your work. The Premium I get is about $300/head after figuring all butchering costs.....That is the premium when I do the work.

So, I see parallels between this and any program where the government or anyone else does the work for you. Sure, we might get a little extra if consumers feel good about thier choices, but not near what we can get if we do it ourselves and do it right.

My second point is that people can tell the difference between my beef and the commodity beef sold at the grocers. Folks, This year especially, I am getting nervous. See, yeah, Walmart Beef is Crap,......It used to be that Safeway's beef was very consistently very good. I could refer people to it. THis year especially, I have heard person after person tell me tat the meat hey got at Safeway is junk.....Costco is abut the only large chain inmour area selling consistently good meat.

Why would this worry a guy selling his own? There are two reasons. I have to raise more calves han what I can sell. That beef is marketed through these grocers and I want it to get me a good price there as well.

The second reason is strong grocery prices do support mine. I can generally get more, but the difference can't be too far out of whack and be sustainable..

A final comment on private programs going broke. THere are several successfull ones here in Oregon that involve many producers that have larger ranches. THE ONES GOING BROKE ARE NOT GOING BROKE BECAUSE OF CHEAP IMPORT MEAT!.......

Ruminate on that. They are going broke because the consumer tries the meat and can't tell the difference between it and the poor quality stuff at the grocers. That may be marketing done poorly on thie part. It may be inferior cattle, inferior feeding, or inferior processing. Everything needs done right.....

Slapping a flag on the package is not a cure all. It does not seperate your beef from the saleyard scrub cattle that enters the grocery chain... Legitimate Country of Origin is not a bad thing, but depending on it alone will get you the same as depending on someone else for any other premium,

I have seen Painted Hills T-Bone Steaks way outsell the store brand at $4.00 a pound more....They are an example of a good branded beef program. I am not part of it, just tipping my hat to someone else doing it right. I mentin them as they are a larger more recognizable example than I,

PPRM
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Good post, PPRM. My premium is similar to yours and I sell for only about 20% over Wal-Mart prices. And I only sell about 60% of eligible calves through my beef program...quality control. There is a lot more to quality than a black hide, no ear, or where they are raised.
 
Robertmac,

LOL, you certainly summed up my post well......It takes a lot to get a larger premium and sustain it.....People are interested in where thier meat comes from, but more specific than "The USA"......


A company I work for refers to a study that says, "In any market, 30-40% of the customers care only about Price"....The upshot of that is Walmart owns that market and too many people try to outdo them. They ignore the 60-70% that will pay more if when they see a difference that resonates with them. Why go after the market that only cares about price anyways....That is the lowest margin market out there...

I think that going after the people who care where thier meat comes from is going after the 60-70%.....However, to get the 60-70%, you have to understand that when they want to know where it comes from, they want to know a lot more than the country of origin,. ...Geographically, they may want to know what county as it relates to local...But more often than not, the more important information to them goes back to how it was handled and the animals were raised....So the whole "Where does it come from?" sounds geographical, but often is not meant as a goegraphical question,

PPRM
 
Great article PPRM...... I agree....

Ruminate on that. They are going broke because the consumer tries the meat and can't tell the difference between it and the poor quality stuff at the grocers. That may be marketing done poorly on thie part. It may be inferior cattle, inferior feeding, or inferior processing. Everything needs done right.....
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Once we have traceback of a product we can make whoever dropped the ball accountable..... Whether it's the cattle or feeding or processing we will know... And once we know then actions can be done to eliminate the problem..

Does anyone of have one of those food savers?? I've been expeirmenting (sp) with mine.. I have found that you take an average steak out of the supermarket and take the air out of the the sack and throw it into the refridgerator for a week or two and you have a very tastey product... We can't hardly eat a boughten steak here and when I put them in a food saver, it is a much better steak... I would think that in packaging meat for sale this would be a great idea so the consumer could age their steaks after they bought them...... Any ideas??????
 
PPRM-- One of the problems with your plan of everyone finishing and marketing their own beef is that many do not live in an area where their are facilities to slaughter them...Montana only has a couple of USDA inspected kill plants (which is necessary to sell packaged beef)-- closest of which I'm aware of is 300 miles away (one way)-- and the others closer to 400 miles away...

Even most the local feedlots don't finish out for that reason- instead taking them to the 900lb or so weight- then shipping them to feedlots near the slaughter plants (SD, Neb, Ks) for finishing.....

We have 100's of times more cattle than people around here ( a county twice the size of Delaware with a population of less than 6000) .....
 
Oldtimer said:
PPRM-- One of the problems with your plan of everyone finishing and marketing their own beef is that many do not live in an area where their are facilities to slaughter them...Montana only has a couple of USDA inspected kill plants (which is necessary to sell packaged beef)-- closest of which I'm aware of is 300 miles away (one way)-- and the others closer to 400 miles away...

Even most the local feedlots don't finish out for that reason- instead taking them to the 900lb or so weight- then shipping them to feedlots near the slaughter plants (SD, Neb, Ks) for finishing.....

We have 100's of times more cattle than people around here ( a county twice the size of Delaware with a population of less than 6000) .....
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I never meant to infer a plan for everyone to do this....I am saying slapping a flag on a package is not the cure all end all....Your better bred cattle will have the same packaging that the saleyard scrub cattle have. So, likely, someone gets one of those packages of and they will end up decidin not to buy the package that has your meat in it...And believe me when I say there is plenty of poor meat from the USA......


I was describing my program to show the perspective I have when looking at different labeling ideas and thier effectiveness. Simply saying that imported cheap meat has caused some Branded programs to go broke is too simplistic. That simplistic thinking is what caused them to go broke,


PPRM
 
PPRM-- I think your Branded program would not be able to keep up with demand if M-COOL was implemented and many of the consumers of your area walked into the retail store and looked into the meat counter and found that what they had been getting passed off to them as US beef, actually had been slaughtered in/ or contained meat from Mexico, or Uruguay- or any one of the other 40 countries we import from...

The only problem you may face with M-COOL is that you may have more legitimate competition- as I think when folks are finally told the truth on the origin of their meats, and some even become aware that their is imported beef being sold in the US, it will create a much bigger demand and market for the Branded/Sourced Products....
 
Oldtimer,

Nowhere in my post did I say I am for or against MCOOL....That is not my point. I could actaully do any traceability program of any kind quite easily. The calves number is on each package of beef I sell. I did that as a way to tell if I had any line of cows causing troubles......

My post is to address that simply sorting Beef as to Country of Origin is not the end all cure all...there is lots of substandard US Beef......

I do compete with some legitimate US programs and actually have refered people to them. If I am out of something, Costco is a good alternative, but better yet, the Painted Hills branded program and Oregon Country Natural Beef.
 
PPRM, "My post is to address that simply sorting Beef as to Country of Origin is not the end all cure all...there is lots of substandard US Beef......"

I think people are missing the biggest use of COOL. The day is coming when Cargill, Tyson, et al will be able to source all the beef they need from South America. If we don't have something that gives consumers a reason to buy US instead of SA, they won't and we're all sunk. I haven't heard any better ideas than COOL and none of the anti-COOL guys could come up with anything except Ben - and his idea, while it would be the ultimate, simply won't go.
 
Again Oldtimer writes_"Problem is Soap-- that many of the Branded Beef programs can not compete when the multinational Packers/retailers are allowed to lie and mislabel- and tell the consumer they are providing the same product... Walmarts Choice Brand passed off as US beef with the USDA label may be a low select, standard, or worse from a chunk of cow out of Mexico or Australia....

USDA's allowing this to occur ruins many folks perception of good quality beef- and gradually over the years/generations acclimates the consumer taste to a poorer quality product-- which is exactly what the multinational Packers want, so they can sell more of the lower quality, cheaper purchased imported beef....

Several Branded programs have gone broke or had a tough time-because the consumer already thinks they are getting a US product because it has the USDA label on it- and is portrayed as such by the Big Packers/retailers...."[/quote]


Oldtimer, i'm not an advocate for the packers,USDA or Wal-Mart. What you say though, is just not true! Lets say for the sake of this post that what you say is true. Sue them, you would win and at the same-time put in R-CALF's arsenal, ammunition with greater power than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima, Japan! Bill Bullard, would pin a Medal-Of-Honor on your chest, for your services to R-CALF and you would become their hero.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 
Once we have traceback of a product we can make whoever dropped the ball accountable..... ******* IMPORTERS thats WHO !

Whether it's the cattle ***** It not the CowCalf Man

or feeding ****** Maybe a Little but only in the Border states

or processing we will know...****** Most but not all ,the little packer almost never.

And once we know then actions can be done to eliminate the problem..
***** Grab USDA ,Fda, And FSIS by the ear and Kiss their but GOODBYE.
 
PPRM said:
My post is to address that simply sorting Beef as to Country of Origin is not the end all cure all...there is lots of substandard US Beef......
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I agree, but imports used to manipulate the price of USA live cattle will have to be sold as the imports they are and be held responsible for that quality. Quality beef will sell, junk won't. China will have a hard time selling food to many consumers...at any price!!!!

Katrina, I believe a good cow/calf operator can identify the majority of 'bad eating experiences' before the calves leave his ranch. Many other problems are system induced. Argentina processors keep slaughter calves from each ranch in separate pens...think about that. Back in the 50s and 60s when beef was king, how much of the cattle were born, raised, and finished on the same ranch?
Progress in efficiency(and lower cost of production) isn't always progress in quality. More of the USA cattle have black hides, but the percent prime and choice has decreased!
 
Kato said:
I just read a study in a beef magazine that compared cow size across breeds. They found that the Angus cows now outweighed the Charolais. Go figure....
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I think I read somewhere that Angus is the second largest now?
 
Katrina, I believe a good cow/calf operator can identify the majority of 'bad eating experiences' before the calves leave his ranch. Many other problems are system induced. Argentina processors keep slaughter calves from each ranch in separate pens...think about that. Back in the 50s and 60s when beef was king, how much of the cattle were born, raised, and finished on the same ranch?
Progress in efficiency(and lower cost of production) isn't always progress in quality. More of the USA cattle have black hides, but the percent prime and choice has decreased!
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Your right Robert.... We are selling fats Wed and I can pick you out one that will not grade... Never will no matter how long we feed him...

Wouldn't it be interesting if before the calves were sold through the sale ring the average yield grade from the year before calves were flashed across the scale..

Yeah don't get me started on black hided cattle I don't think the breeders always have a good eating exsperiance in mind. :wink:
 
Sandhusker said:
PPRM, "My post is to address that simply sorting Beef as to Country of Origin is not the end all cure all...there is lots of substandard US Beef......"

I think people are missing the biggest use of COOL. The day is coming when Cargill, Tyson, et al will be able to source all the beef they need from South America. If we don't have something that gives consumers a reason to buy US instead of SA, they won't and we're all sunk. I haven't heard any better ideas than COOL and none of the anti-COOL guys could come up with anything except Ben - and his idea, while it would be the ultimate, simply won't go.
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Flavor and tenderness are two reasons that this isnt happening. The other reason is peace of mind....The whole China deal is an ensurer of this....


I am not against COOL at all. But I am touting that we be more progressive than that. I believe in american Entreprenuirialism more than any government rogram. COOL is an attempt to distinguish via keeping everything on the commodity format.

My personal deal is small. Yet, I have several programs in my area much larger that are thriving. They have the ability to ship from rural oregon into metropolitan areas....They could ship further and likely will as they grow.

The real thing is to give the customer a repeatable experience. That creates repeat purchases on a product that commands a premium over competitive protiens an keeps that premium.....I agree a US flag on foriegn sourced Beef is just wrong, but focusing on that gives us the least return for time and energy invested.

Focusing on what we do rather than "Let's find the bad guy to blame and he is a producer from another country"....Focus on our own programs. The orginal thread was about a lady in Alturas Californa that did that. I am commenting that we should look for opportnities to do the same tyoes of things rather than all this time and energy to get the USDA and government to develop something.....How many good branded programs could have been developed with the Money fighting over MCOOL, R-Calf, ect., Ect???????

I don't say produce a juicy burger nor do I say a lean product. Does anyone realize how lucky we are? We have a product that the definition of quality varies on. Some like Prime grade, others define quality as low fat......That is huge in that we can market cattle from different growing environments and breeds that work on our ranches to different consumers.

The key is channeling the kind of beef you have into that program that delivers that consumer a repeatable experience. I have a nieghbor that has decided long ago Saler catle fit his ranching needs best. Another tha decided Limousin were the ticket. What they did different is found programs to market these leaner grading cattle into. Those programs sell the lean beef to consumers seeking it out. I have other nieghbors that run Angus and Angus Cross cattle and do well in the oregon Natural and Painted hills programs...All these programs came to be competitive without COOL....And all have deddicated loyal customers......

I also live in an area that is seemingly the Poster child area for Microbreweries. I see the poissibilities in the Beef business as being the same.......These guys did not have to have huge government to interfere and be successful.

My program? Well, in addition to great well aged beef, I send Thank-you Cards and Christmas Cards......I don't see Tyson nor Safeway and Walmart going there,

;-}

PPRM
 
Well, shoot, you guys got me on my soapbox.....No offense to Saopweed BTW, LOL.....

We sit here and talk about how the lean cattle from other countries gets mixed with our hamburger.......My burger is definetly different than store burger. I could not believe the first time I heard, "Your Beef is not tough like store bought"...I thought, "How can ground product be chewy?" Then I kept hearing that......I ask you this.....Is it the three year old Cattle from south america making the store burger chewy or is it the 13 year old hard grass cows that we see at the saleyard headed to armour?

Focusing on the foriegn cattle allows chewy hamburger to continue and does nothing to get a higher return on the portion of burger that we supply from our calves that is tender.....Develop brands that segregate and you will find the burger getting $3.75 a pound versus the burger finding its way to the $1.99/lb batch......

I hear complaints about Tyson, ect owning the Slaughterhouse market. In the Northwest, we have at least two branded programs that have helped a smaller Washington Beef do well. It is because grass roots ranchers got together. The small plant I go to has really grown on the last 5 years especially because of guys like me....

I am not labeling Tyson as the bad guys. I am saying there are other things to do,

PPRM
 
The small plant i go to has really grown on the last 5 years especially because of guys like me....

Same here in MI. we take our cattle to Love packing in Rudyard Mi.
 
Oldtimer, i'm not an advocate for the packers,USDA or Wal-Mart. What you say though, is just not true! Lets say for the sake of this post that what you say is true. Sue them, you would win and at the same-time put in R-CALF's arsenal, ammunition with greater power than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima, Japan! Bill Bullard, would pin a Medal-Of-Honor on your chest, for your services to R-CALF and you would become their hero.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
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Ben do you have some moldy money laying around we can finance the WarChest to do it- That can match the political money of the Mulitinationals? USDA already has the Governments courts ruling that they are above any oversight- and their decisions can't be questioned... I truly think its a winnable case if you could get it to a Jury- but as we've been shown, there is little backing of jury verdicts or the wishes of the people with the current Administration :roll: :( :mad: ....Even 13 years ago the Montana County Attorneys and the Montana Attorney General (Marc Racicot) agreed this was out and out fraud under state laws- but believed it was unchallengable without huge costs since it was an interstate mandate/rule.....Since then GW has taken away about 10 times our states rights....It may take the upcoming major world depression and the conflicts/rebellion that follow to get our Government back...

Ben-its the same as your plan to organize to defeat the Packers--was tryed in the 60's- 70's (when a lot more rancher/farmer moldy money was available) and may still work if there was some of that moldy money of the profits of the 50's still laying around- but most of it has been taken and ran with ( got old and sold out )- or used up by the heirs (many of which again sold out- a lot for way above prices that will pencil out for Ag production)- or used to expand to keep up with rising costs of operating-- and most operating today are on a pretty tight financial lines- or just operating places for rich nonresident land investors....Nothing that could allow many to wait out the Packer Cartel access to world wide funding..........Not unless we can get some government backing....
 
Sandhusker said:
Texan said:
Hell, M-COOL is already costing me plenty. I've got a lot of other sht I need to be doing. :lol2:
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:lol: :lol: I hear ya, but that's your best answer? Think about it all day and get back to me. The AMI and NCBA are fear mongering trying to scare you with the message of extra costs and extra work. People need to sit down and ask themselves two questions; What extras would really be needed to make this work and when that is answered, why is the AMI and NCBA BSing me? Maybe add a third question; Do I like being BSed and taken for a fool?
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Sandhusker, NCBA and AMI aren't doing anything to scare me. This might be hard for some of you guys who are such dedicated, lockstep-marching members of the national organizations to understand, but most of the cattlemen in this country are capable of independent thought without checking their email first. I don't get marching orders from NCBA and I sure as hell don't get them from R-CALF. I don't need anybody to tell me what to think.

Any reasonable person should be able to see quite clearly that M-COOL will come with a cost to cattle producers. Exactly what that cost will be is yet to be determined because we don't know what it will take for us to comply with verification. That verification won't be determined by you and it won't be determined by me. It will ultimately be determined by the retailers, since they are the final link to the consumer, and the freakin' federal government that YOU wanted involved in this experiment. :???:

If you wanted something that would NOT have a cost to cow-calf producers, you would be willing to do away with the 'born in the US' aspect of the labeling. That birth verification is what is going to cost us the most to comply with. The retailer is NOT going to put his credibility on the line and accept the liability involved in labeling without making demands of proof - proof of birth country. That retailer is going to expect the packer to provide him some assurance of birth origin, so now you have to accept the involvement of the AMI whether you like them or not.

M-COOL - with the rules determined by the USDA and the packers. You asked for it, now ALL of us have got it. And it ain't gonna be free and it probably ain't even gonna be cheap. Argue all you want, Sandhusker, but the truth is evident to many of us...

M-COOL will come with a cost to cow-calf producers. Those costs will be disproportionately greater for the smaller cow-calf producers - particularly those in the south. Write it down.
 

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