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Temple Grandin and KFC

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I am curious, as I have posted before, about the cow to yearling bull ratio. We always figured 15 to a yearling bull. Soapweed uses 25. We only like to breed for 45 days. Soapweed, in your estimation can a yearling bull cover 25 cows in 45 days?

Another thing, if someone can shed some light on this, it would be most appreciated: we got the tests back on the yearling bulls. Two were done from a different vet and he scored them. One bull scored 76, the other 84. Then there was a stamp put on the scoring sheet with the caution: "The use of young, untried bulls in single sire breeding groups can be a poor management practice resulting in open females. In cases where this is necessary (purebred herd or very small breeding groups), ONLY bulls with greater than a 90 semen score should be used."

I had never seen this before. All were marked "Satisfactory potential breeder". Three of the bulls weren't scored, just marked "Satisfactory" with the scrotal measurements included. Is the one vet just being extra cautious with his stamped remark? Or what do you make of this? We were planning to use the one bull that scored 76 on 25 yearling Angus heifers all by himself. Now I have some concerns about it.

Sometimes I just hate all this information.
 
Soapweed, you can run alot of cows on what it takes to overwinter a bunch of sissy bulls. Your system works because you're a savy enough cowman that can id quality midrange bulls. And I suspect you can buy bulls a little cheaper when you're buying a large quantity. I'm impressed by your plan.

If you want to consider processing them and finnishing them in a commercial yard, I'd be happy to help. I got a Callicrate bander and I ain't afraid to use it. The cuttin bull biz is all that's working in the feeder end with these crazy prices. I think you'd want to run them togather for a week on a small trap like 40 acres - let them get the asskickings out of the way. Then band them and kick them back out for 30 to 45 days on a bigger trap maybe. These bulls would still be inplant/drug free so you might still go Laura's lean or Coleman's. They all say no cuttin bulls, but your yearlings could get by that.



Faster Horses, the deal with having to have a high motil/mobil rate is relevant to what they called "single sire breeding group." With only 1 bull iin the pasture he is all you got to raise a calf. I wouldn't consider doing this even with known breeders except the pure bred breeder is forced to.

I sure don't think its overkill to count the seman, but I'd ask Jason Trowbridge about this kind of stuff. I'd likely want to run 2 yearlings on 25 cows, but Jason will know more by the lineage of the bull.
 
Faster Horses, I guess I don't worry much about the 45 day deal. We turn bulls out sometime between May 15th and 20th, and gather them no earlier than mid August. I'd always rather have a late calf than "no calf" and we don't end up with very many late ones.

Brad, thanks for the info. I'll consider putting these yearling bulls in a feed-lot, but probably not very hard. :wink: It is always easier to gather a couple pastures of look alike bulls, and haul several at a time to a sale barn. We have four local sale barns, so can spread the risk a bit, and do so over a two or three week period letting the price averages play out. Many of the buyers know my "program" or maybe my "lack of a program", but the cutting bulls usually sell pretty well. I can calculate how much I "lost" on each bull, and know what my "rental" costs have been for the summer. Then I'm out of bulls for another eight months, and don't have to suffer the mental anguish of worrying about whether or not they are making money or losing it in some feedyard.
 
soapweed, as your plan works well, I shouldn't have suggested fixin what ain't broke. Business school profs preach balancing innovation with discipline. Your bull program is a good innovation and you show good discipline marketing the culls. In the words of Rosanne Rosanna Danna, "nevermind."
 
Actually, Brad, you had a pretty good idea, and I should probably do as you suggest. From the Soapweedy side of the hill, though, my admittedly limited experience with retained ownership hasn't been very positive. I have done this three different times through the years, made money once, and lost twice. It just naturally tends to make a feller a bit gunshy.

Even on a partnership deal, where a rancher sells half interest in a load or two of calves to a feed lot, it seems that the feedlot gets reimbursed well for feed costs and yardage. If the finished cattle "make money", not only does the feedlot make half of the "profit" on the cattle, but they also make a profit on feed and are paid well for the use of their facilities. Thus, even on a 50-50 partnership, the feedlot makes more than 50% on the deal when all the dust settles.

If the partnership cattle lose money, both the rancher and the feedlot owner are out half of the loss, but the feedlot owner still gets his feed sold at a profit and he is still well compensated with "yardage" for the use of his facilities. It is kinda like gambling in a casino, the average customer should realize going into the deal that the odds are stacked in favor of the "house".
 
We do like Soapweed too. Raise our own bulls by A.Iing and we consider 25 cows to a bull. IMHO a bull that can not breed 25 cows is not good. We do keep a two year old if we don't use them as a yearling. We always have extra bulls. We run a yearlings with our older bulls to keep them honest. In saying this cow condition is a big thing for us. We have been calving since the first of April and I have cows bulling.IMHO, the angus breed is going in the wrong direction with the way the angus breeders are feeding their bulls. This volume they talk about on the bulls gross me out. flabby sided-pot bellied things. Soapweed those black-bauldy crosses will be real jim dandies next year. Alot of pounds to sell. Feeders will love um. We band our bulls like brad does and feed them. They sell like hotcakes. Sorry for the ramblings...... :D
 
On an earlier subject of this thread, we were talking about never being too old to learn something new. Last Sunday afternoon, my wife and I took a little road trip to look at a horse that is for sale. It turned out that the gentleman that owned this horse was at a branding, so we drove up to the well-run branding in progress. It was drizzling a bit, and I was trying to keep my britches clean enough to attend church that evening, so didn't get out to help. We enjoyed watching for awhile, and everything was proceeding like clock-work.

I have been to fifty years worth of brandings, averaging about a dozen per year. The ropers drag the calves to the waiting calf wrestlers, and then sometimes it is quite tricky finding an opening to get a skitterish horse back through the wrestler line-up. There are usually a couple people standing on each side of the opening, between the calves in the corral and the wrestlers, to keep adventurous calves from escaping. At this branding, the portable corral panes were taken apart in another spot down the line a ways, to form another small opening for the riders to pass through. A person acted as sentinel to guard so calves could not get out. As the ropers deposited their calves, they rode on around to this opening to get back into the corral to resume roping another calf. It looked good to me.
 
Several things on this thread, Soap, nice thing about subway is you get to have it made your way, lol. I travel lots and am a big subway fan.

As far as TG, well, I've said my peice before. I think she has maybe done more good than harm. What always got me was the folks that elevate anyone to a Say all end all God-Like status. I see that in the Horse Demo world. My comments have probably been more geared to the reaction these people elicit than what they are actually capable of. That being said, I also feel if I can't walk away with something, it was probably on me rather than them. Sometimes that something can be something that I would never do.

Speaking of "Hore Demo's," the one I get the biggest laugh from is Gaywanna pony Boy or whoever the hell he is. Italian posing as an Indian. He is master marketer though. He knows his audience. At some point he is clairvoyent with a horse, Here is the line that Resonates with a bleacher full of those 40 something ladies that can't wear jeans or ride a horse. He will say, "At some point a man rode this horse, and no matter how hard the horse tried, it was never good enough." These ladies immediately "feel" this as there has been the same kinda guy in their life at some point. At that point, Pony Boy is the hero and all other men are A**holes. he sells lots of stuff this way, Gotta tip my hat to knowing ow to get this audience in his pocket, lol,

PPRM
 
"I was trying to keep my britches clean enough to attend church that evening, so didn't get out to help"

Translation: Mrs Soapweed wouldn't let me play.



Katrina, I like your AI plan for bull supply. Damn shame ya can't think of so mething to do with your fancy AI heifer calves. :lol:
 
Soapweed said:
It was drizzling a bit, and I was trying to keep my britches clean enough to attend church that evening, so didn't get out to help. We enjoyed watching for awhile, and everything was proceeding like clock-work.

Pretty dang bad when a man can't work a few calves and not get dirty! Must be a real sorry hand. :shock: :lol:

In all seriousness, when I was a kid, we had a neighbor buy another ranch about 45 miles north of us. We traded help with this neighbor at branding and shipping time. He had another feller who lived north of us, help brand that spring. This was the first time I ever saw anyone pull the testicles instead of skin them as everyone else around us had done it. Guess he was trained by a sheepman cuz' thats how he cut calves. Anyway, he wore a white shirt and when we were done for the day he only had 2 or maybe 3 real small flecks of blood on his shirt. I was really impressed.

As for keeping your pants from getting muddy, why Soapweed if you would have just tucked your pants into your boot tops you would have kept them clean!

I wouldn't go to a church where they frowned on a little mud or cow manure, at least not in this country! :lol:
Click to expand...
 
Katrina, I like your AI plan for bull supply. Damn shame ya can't think of so mething to do with your fancy AI heifer calves.
Steve:
I do, we just havn't discussed that yet. When I get time I will get some pictures. :D
 
Jinglebob........".As for keeping your pants from getting muddy, why Soapweed if you would have just tucked your pants into your boot tops you would have kept them clean"
Then you could have all the $hit in your boots!!!!

You"re pretty much right about T.G ,Tibbs, but a little crude!I don't think anyone,even the novice, needs to carry a protractor around with them to move cattlel As for her curved chute--it's a crock.All you have to remember when working any livestock is KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.
 
Jinglebob: "As for keeping your pants from getting muddy, why Soapweed if you would have just tucked your pants into your boot tops you would have kept them clean"

Juan: "Then you could have all the s*** in your boots!!!!"

Hope you got a foot of snow, and all your darned old Herefords got sunburned teats for that one, Juan. :wink: No, not really. I wouldn't wish that off on anyJuan, Juan. :)
 
Dadburn it Soap I only meant the manure in your boots!!!Not your feet!

Did get some snow but not the amounts they got in the "Hills."No sore bags and don't expect any.Only one year in my life-time did we have much of a problem.
I hear that those black cattle absorb so much sun that the meat is full of nitrosamines!
 
Juan, I went through a "phase" when I was young and wrangling dudes on the Moose Head Ranch in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. During that summer I had fun tucking my pants into sixteen inch high Sanders boots with high riding heels and jingling my spurs. The worst part was stopping a couple times each day, and dumping out the twigs, pine needles, and rainwater that seemed to assemble down deep cuddled up alongside my socks. :)

Don't know if "black cattle absorb so much sun that the meat is full of nitrosamines" or not, but all I know is that the meat seems to absorb a lot of wholehearted tastiness and good nutrition. :)
 

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