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The Premise Dispute

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GLA

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This was an editoral comment from AgCenter.com, dated Aug 26,05



THE PREMISE DISPUTE

Many cattle producers have been requested to sign up for a premise number for their beef operation. This action was seen by most as a first step in ID of the national herd. The problem is ideas for premise identification have yet to be formularized and any work up by producers might be negated by the definitive rules to be announced in the distant future.

The current plan calls for a single GPS site for reference to any livestock operation. This creates some issues on traceback by failing to define an outside parameter of the premise in GPS waypoints.

FSA has spent a fortune identifying premises of those who have signed up for any government program. It would be too easy to use this work as a foundation for building the premise ID system. USDA is spending millions of dollars on pilot programs that attempt to set up separate premise datastores and new departments to administer them.

The ideas of state organizations interested in setting up this project are filled with dollar signs. These government institutions see sign up fees for a start but more importantly, they want to send a representative to each shipment requiring a movement report and charge for it. Then they would like to charge USDA for administering the datastore.

Creating these fiefdoms in local and state governments is a big mistake and will end up cost millions of extra wasted dollars to get the premises identified. Thousands of businesses and governmental agencies are planning how they might fit into the national id plan. Mostly they all want a piece of the pie and each would like a small clip off each transaction.

The solution is a NCBA administered datastore with all cattle information including the premises. Allowing multiple datastores is not only costly but also conflicts with many of the purposes of the plan outside of traceback. The valuable production information, so necessary to benchmarking and competition, needs to be located in one database that is updated everyday.
 

CattleCo

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GLA,
I posted this before I saw yours.........
Sorry!
 

GLA

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CattleCo,

We may have been posting at the same time...........were great minds thinking in unison?.........scarrrrry!

I agree, the last part of the editoral shows just how "clueless" some people are towards NCBA. I for one don't want them to be my database provider.........or until they prove they are really "working" for me!

But as we post, there are more important things happening in this world than this stuff............the price of fuel is shutting this nation down.........any other problem is just a nat on an elephant's back!!

GLA
 

mrj

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GLA said:
CattleCo,

We may have been posting at the same time...........were great minds thinking in unison?.........scarrrrry!

I agree, the last part of the editoral shows just how "clueless" some people are towards NCBA. I for one don't want them to be my database provider.........or until they prove they are really "working" for me!

But as we post, there are more important things happening in this world than this stuff............the price of fuel is shutting this nation down.........any other problem is just a nat on an elephant's back!!

GLA

GLA, have to agree with you about that gnat! However, maybe these outrageous fuel prices are what it is going to take to get us serious about both improving mileage of vehicles, and maybe more importantly wringing more oil out of US soils, building more, and more efficient, refineries, and really working on bio-diesel. We are figuring out that veg. oils are NOT necessarily better for us to eat than animal fats, so maybe more of that stuff, plus all the used cooking oils/fats should be burned in our vehicles. We traditionally have done pretty well at the "necessity is the mother of invention" angle when pushed into it by whatever reason.

Another point: what makes you so sure that NCBA intends to "be the database provider" in any system they work out?

Also, why do you believe NCBA may not be really "working" for you? They surely are working for us! Now, if we could only get our SD Congressional delegation on the ranchers side of things, re. energy and ag politics, life would look a little better.

MRJ
 

GLA

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MRJ,

Well for starters, NCBA picking some off the wall company for their database program that does not have a track record that reflects success; with that in mind, for the way they snubbed their own Allied Industry supporters by not even giving them a chance to bid this program; and by making this decision, it gives the Allied Industry supporters the feeling that NCBA has NO loyalty to those who pay such a high price for their trade show.........it looks pretty overpriced to me!!

And the last thing. Why does NCBA want to get involved in this program anyway, when there are so many other independent company's who can do it better? NCBA cannot be all things to all people. Looks to me like they are looking for another "cash cow"....good luck!!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!

GLA
 

CattleCo

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Stick to your story GLA!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is also a recruitment avenue for NCBA. Do not kid yourself they will try to make money, but datawarehouse cannot make money! If we have a couple of hundred out there it is really a wreck.....How can the USDA even think about allowing the private sector to be a part of National ID???? What happens if a datawarehouse with thousands of ID'd animals goes tits up????? and a off shore company buys them???? I cannot believe usda is even considering this private datawarehouse bull crap.......If you want a private data company to help you track your livestock, FINE... help you with data analysis...FINE, All that is FINE, but to allow multitudes of these "dreamers of profit" hold tracking data of food or recreational animals is just plain "playing with a time bomb"!!!!!!! Give me a break! :roll:
 

STAFF

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Our Thoughts

USDA National Animal ID System (NAIS) Premises Registration Is Too Little and Too Late, and Not a Traceback System

The USDA has increased funding for continued registration of premises for its national animal identification system (NAIS), while failing to address the real job for the program – animal traceback – and how the program can actually work without compromising producer's private data or increasing production costs.

According to the USDA's Secretary Johanns, more than 80,000 premises have been registered in the NAIS program, to help trace diseased or potentially diseased animals to their point of origin more quickly and efficiently. Currently, 47 states and 5 tribes have approved premises registration systems, and APHIS anticipates that all 50 states will be on board by July 2005.

At the present time, animal health officials conduct disease trace outs with local, resident systems that make use of records related to program diseases, on-farm recordkeeping, and existing interstate movement certificates and breed registries. However, these epidemiologic investigations may take from days to weeks to complete because records are often kept on paper, or they are not standardized across state lines and International borders.

When local paper-based systems, or even local, resident software system and databases are used, any national system that still relies on these data sources for verification is bound to be slow and ineffective. Only a Web-based data management system can provide an efficient, effective data collection, storage, and report system with true animal traceback and traceup. A Web-based system makes it possible for records to move with the individual animal and related byproducts, which cuts the time required for source verification to just seconds.

Effective traceback is only possible when each stage of the food processing and supply system is included. The USDA's NAIS and other similar tracking systems currently in use or in pilot testing are incomplete and ineffective since they only are concerned with the animal's early life history. All products in the food chain, from the live animal RFID TAG and its origin,PREMISES CODE to its associated commodity items, must be identified with a unique number and labeled by RFID or barcode and included in the traceback system. All activities and actions performed on the RFID animals must be recorded at each location STOCKYARDS– and identified by a unique Premises IDentification Code (PIDC) – in a rancher's field, on a cattle truck, or even in the middle of a packing plant,FDA all the trucking ,FDA to the wholesale ,FDA retailer FDAand to consumer.

Only ScoringAg's Internet-based recordkeeping system and database can: meet the demands of real traceback in real time; provide real compliance with government traceback and Homeland Security and APHIS regulations; give producers and industry stakeholders a real marketing advantage over competitors with PIDC and point-to-point traceback; add proven value with RFID source verification throughout the Web-based recordkeeping system; and guarantee confidentiality with a secure databank that can still deliver Internet-based records anywhere, anytime, in real time – only to the owner of the account.

ScoringAg.com and its traceback and traceup system for agriculture products, featuring Site-Specific Recordkeeping™ and PIDC location code, is one of the many divisions of ScoringSystem, Inc., which is located in Sarasota, Florida USA and specializes in providing solutions with mobile data, via wireless PDAs, laptops, and Semacode-programmed Nokia, Siemens, and Sony Ericsson cell phones. Whether using RFID or barcodes for tracking and traceback of livestock, transport containers or perishable commodities and other consumer goods worldwide , www.ScoringAg.com makes managing data easier – and does it in an extremely cost effective manner.
 

CattleCo

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Whether using RFID or barcodes for tracking and traceback of livestock, transport containers or perishable commodities and other consumer goods worldwide , www.ScoringAg.com makes managing data easier – and does it in an extremely cost effective manner.

I will Give SS credit for having a barcode part of their system, that is a good move on their part!!!!........a barcode tag is still the most cost effective ID device for a producer. When you get to the feedlot and the packing plant it is hard to keep clean, but after a producer sell his calves let the Feedlot put the RFID tag in if the damm packers have to have it!!
 

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Rumors have it that a New SSI invention has a barcode tag with RFID that costs less than a dollar and could be made right on the site..
 

CattleCo

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Rumors have it that a New SSI invention has a barcode tag with RFID that costs less than a dollar and could be made right on the site..

If it is ISO I would say AllFlex will buy SS!
 

CattleCo

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Porker Don't **** yourself!!! I predict , if USDA lets the private data warehouses play a part in this , you will see the cream come to the top and the "sinkers" sell out or default. Those that default will have their records confiscated by the USDA and then place where??? As for money, in the end it willbe like the packers.....2-3 players doing the whole thing and in bed with USDA in more ways than one. Talk about keeping the data cinfidential??????? :roll: You do not have to have a MBA to see how this is going to play out!!! All-Flex can do what they want ...if they want to do it!!! They are a pretty successful company! AND WORLD WIDE!!! Don't forget they have some good folks working for them......GOOD TALENTED FOLKS!!!
 

PORKER

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All-Flex can do what they want ...if they want to do it!!! They are a pretty successful company! AND WORLD WIDE!!! CattleCo .have you counted up the multi-nationals lately in the RFID world that compete with ALL-FLEX ?They are small potato's.
 

CattleCo

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YES I HAVE.......................we really want PRIVATE INDUSTRY in this thing selling the data or the company to a company owned by CHINA???????????? More reason to not let private datawarehouse have a part in this!!!!!!!!!DAH! :roll:
 

STAFF

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THAT'S not what WE DO CattleCo !!!!!! we do not sell DATA ,Do You Understand what we do, I don't think so by your remarks.
 

CattleCo

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STAFF,
I know exactly what SS does..................don't **** the shitter!!!!!!!!
I sold the first load of cattle on the Internet at Private Treaty over 10 years ago, and broadcast the First live sales on line at Cyberstockyard. Don't F__K with ME on this Internet deal and your data warehouse BULL ****!! I know damm well what the motives are.................CAPRENDE>?????????????????
:roll:
 

PORKER

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CATTLECO ,I know exactly what SS does..................don't s*** the shitter!!!!!!!!
As I read your comments I will say ,Your remarks tell's anybody that reads these threads that you are out of the loop and angry when it comes to a national and Mandatory ID system from APHIS that records animal movements in real time while satisfing FDA rules of traceback from Homeland Security's Bioterrorism law . You are not interested in saving the US. cattle business from a catrostphic event like Foot and Mouth . So are you just badmouthing for a fun fact or are you that stupid when it comes to protecting our NATIONAL livestock infrastructure whether private or public?
 

CattleCo

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I know a helluva lot more about THE REAL ID DEAL than you will ever know. As for the NATIONAL SECURITYOF THE FOOD SUPPLY........we are in as good as shape as we can be. If they want to do it ...nothing will stop them .....period. A datawarehouse full of records will not do one damm thing to stop it. You and Big Bill can take a elevated leap at a motivated pastry with your SS BS. WE ARE A LONG LONG WAY FROM HAVING 100% of the FOOD ANIMALS IN THIS COUNTRY INDIVIDUALLY ID! nuff'said! :roll:
 

CattleCo

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You are not interested in saving the US. cattle business from a catrostphic event like Foot and Mouth . So are you just badmouthing for a fun fact or are you that stupid when it comes to protecting our NATIONAL livestock infrastructure whether private or public? how many usa folks have died from mad cow?????? facts fat boy!


WE NEED TO SAVE THE CATTLE INDUSTRY IN THE US FROM ITSELF!!!!! WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO LOWER CONSUMER CONFIDENCE IN OUR PRODUCT!! :roll:
 

PORKER

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You are not interested in saving the US. cattle business from a catrostphic event like Foot and Mouth .CATTLECO
 

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