The real reason's canadian cattle have'nt flooded the market

[HAY MAKER]

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[Big Muddy rancher]

Since Canadian cattle have individual ID tags that is not really a problem. Are you saying it's not R-CALF but the cost of transporting and a weak US dollar making our cattle more expensive.. Gee I'm glad you said it as that's what we've been saying all along.

 

[fedup2]

One of the newsletters says they are coming in Dec. Says: "With the border now open, placements on feed are surging in Canada, up 91% last month over last year and 47% larger than in 2002. That boosted the on-feed totals in Alberta and Saskatchewan by 21%" Claims we will be hit with some heavy feeders in Dec.
Just sharing another opinion for your information or entertainment or whatever. LOL!

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

One of the newsletters says they are coming in Dec. Says: "With the border now open, placements on feed are surging in Canada, up 91% last month over last year and 47% larger than in 2002. That boosted the on-feed totals in Alberta and Saskatchewan by 21%" Claims we will be hit with some heavy feeders in Dec.
Just sharing another opinion for your information or entertainment or whatever. LOL!

Since most of us don't beleive the others info I guess most of what we post is for entertainment. :wink:

 

[fedup2]

This has always been a favorite story of mine Big Muddy. As long as I remember it, it cuts down on my posts! LOL!

A man stopped in a small town on his journey through Vermont and decided to join a group of men sitting on the porch of the general store.
They were quiet. After several tries at starting a conversation and not succeeding, he asked, "Is there a law against talking in this town?"

One of them replied" There's no law against talking, but we have an understanding that one doesn't speak unless he is sure he can improve on the silence."

 

[Northern Rancher]

Getting cattle into the states wasn't a whole lot different than that before BSE. It all depended on how the USDA border vet wanted to interprewt the rules or the Gal in the Wyoming permit office. One thing the customs brokers have a nice license to steal there. I found a dozen or so of my wifes home made cinnamon buns really greased the good old American wheels of commerce .

 

[Tam]

["HAY MAKER"]First, according to sources on both sides of the border, the trucking infrastructure that existed before the border was closed has disappeared.

Yep that is what we said but you R-CALFers just whined about how the US truckers would be sent to get them.

Second, it's not as if Canadian cattle can move freely across the border. There's a host of new regulations in play that increase the time and effort required to send cattle to the U.S.

Yep we said that too but you said there would be a flood anyway

As an example, each import animal must be identified individually with an official Canadian ear tag, arrive at the port of entry as a sealed shipment with the requisite health certification papers. The seal can only be broken at the final destination, and then only by USDA personnel, certified veterinarians or designees.

Yep that is what it says in the final rules but R-CALF wouldn't believe that would affect the flood of Canadian cattle coming down in all those Canadian trucks doing all that enviroment damage.

Keep in mind, the border has been opened only to non-breeding cattle younger than 30 months of age, and only to single destinations. Fed cattle coming across must go straight to the slaughter facility. Feeder cattle must move directly to a feedlot, which in turn can be the only feedlot of residence prior to harvest

Yep to that one too.

There's also a slug of special import forms and protocols that must be followed.

Can't disagree with you there but then we told you that would affect the so called flood didn't we?

Simply put, the market has changed and the dollars aint there,with the cost of diesel,trucks hard to find and added red tape which adds to costs,add the strenghting canadian dollar and its easy to see why canadian cattle are staying home...................good luck

expences, shortage of trucks, regulations and strong Canadian dollar. Add to that the INCREASE IN CANADIAN SLAUGHTER CAPACITY and I THINK HE'S GOT IT. WOW Haymaker we are proud of you it only took how long for you to see the truth about the flood of Canadian cattle that were supposedly standing at the border ready to destroy your markets tha day the border openned? :clap: :clap: :wink:

 

[Maple Leaf Angus]

Getting cattle into the states wasn't a whole lot different than that before BSE. It all depended on how the USDA border vet wanted to interprewt the rules or the Gal in the Wyoming permit office. One thing the customs brokers have a nice license to steal there. I found a dozen or so of my wifes home made cinnamon buns really greased the good old American wheels of commerce .

Hey just a bloody minute, Northern Rancher.

I thought we were talking about the good ole USA, not Mexico.

What? Graft in the US Customs officals?

:lol: :lol: :lol: [/b]

 

[Northern Rancher]

Yup my pastries paved the way lol. Montana and Wyoming are famous for the 'I'm a government official watch me dick you around.' mentality.

 

[HAY MAKER]

["HAY MAKER"]First, according to sources on both sides of the border, the trucking infrastructure that existed before the border was closed has disappeared.

Yep that is what we said but you R-CALFers just whined about how the US truckers would be sent to get them.

Second, it's not as if Canadian cattle can move freely across the border. There's a host of new regulations in play that increase the time and effort required to send cattle to the U.S.

Yep we said that too but you said there would be a flood anyway

As an example, each import animal must be identified individually with an official Canadian ear tag, arrive at the port of entry as a sealed shipment with the requisite health certification papers. The seal can only be broken at the final destination, and then only by USDA personnel, certified veterinarians or designees.

Yep that is what it says in the final rules but R-CALF wouldn't believe that would affect the flood of Canadian cattle coming down in all those Canadian trucks doing all that enviroment damage.

Keep in mind, the border has been opened only to non-breeding cattle younger than 30 months of age, and only to single destinations. Fed cattle coming across must go straight to the slaughter facility. Feeder cattle must move directly to a feedlot, which in turn can be the only feedlot of residence prior to harvest

Yep to that one too.

There's also a slug of special import forms and protocols that must be followed.

Can't disagree with you there but then we told you that would affect the so called flood didn't we?

Simply put, the market has changed and the dollars aint there,with the cost of diesel,trucks hard to find and added red tape which adds to costs,add the strenghting canadian dollar and its easy to see why canadian cattle are staying home...................good luck

expences, shortage of trucks, regulations and strong Canadian dollar. Add to that the INCREASE IN CANADIAN SLAUGHTER CAPACITY and I THINK HE'S GOT IT. WOW Haymaker we are proud of you

it only took how long for you to see the truth about the flood of Canadian cattle that were supposedly standing at the border ready to destroy your markets tha day the border openned? :clap: :clap: :wink:

Well,evidently you have'nt seen the truth yet,because I never heard anyone except you canuckle heads spinning the facts,saying R CALF was saying canadian cattle was going to flood the "US" market,every body knew that was malarkey except you,I believe you get windier every day.......................good luck "CB"

 

[mrj]

["HAY MAKER"]First, according to sources on both sides of the border, the trucking infrastructure that existed before the border was closed has disappeared.

Yep that is what we said but you R-CALFers just whined about how the US truckers would be sent to get them.

Second, it's not as if Canadian cattle can move freely across the border. There's a host of new regulations in play that increase the time and effort required to send cattle to the U.S.

Yep we said that too but you said there would be a flood anyway

As an example, each import animal must be identified individually with an official Canadian ear tag, arrive at the port of entry as a sealed shipment with the requisite health certification papers. The seal can only be broken at the final destination, and then only by USDA personnel, certified veterinarians or designees.

Yep that is what it says in the final rules but R-CALF wouldn't believe that would affect the flood of Canadian cattle coming down in all those Canadian trucks doing all that enviroment damage.

Keep in mind, the border has been opened only to non-breeding cattle younger than 30 months of age, and only to single destinations. Fed cattle coming across must go straight to the slaughter facility. Feeder cattle must move directly to a feedlot, which in turn can be the only feedlot of residence prior to harvest

Yep to that one too.

There's also a slug of special import forms and protocols that must be followed.

Can't disagree with you there but then we told you that would affect the so called flood didn't we?

Simply put, the market has changed and the dollars aint there,with the cost of diesel,trucks hard to find and added red tape which adds to costs,add the strenghting canadian dollar and its easy to see why canadian cattle are staying home...................good luck

expences, shortage of trucks, regulations and strong Canadian dollar. Add to that the INCREASE IN CANADIAN SLAUGHTER CAPACITY and I THINK HE'S GOT IT. WOW Haymaker we are proud of you

it only took how long for you to see the truth about the flood of Canadian cattle that were supposedly standing at the border ready to destroy your markets tha day the border openned? :clap: :clap: :wink:

Well,evidently you have'nt seen the truth yet,because I never heard anyone except you canuckle heads spinning the facts,saying R CALF was saying canadian cattle was going to flood the "US" market,every body knew that was malarkey except you,I believe you get windier every day.......................good luck "CB"

Guess you forgot to tell your compadres in the auction markets in SD that good news, because they very recently STILL persisted in saying on radio that all those Canadian cattle coming in would drop prices for our cull cattle. Also claimed that Canadian cow beef was "probably" being slaughtered and shipped in in boxes after the border opened to live young cattle. Just typical of the mis-information some of the auction market crowd are prone to dispense, and which helps NO ONE in the cattle/beef industry!

MRJ

 

[Northern Rancher]

Auctionmart owners are cattle whores-they'll tell a rancher whatever it takes to get his calves to their mart-I think most of them have lied so much they believe their own B.S. What I can't figure out is how when your selling they are the 'high dollar' mart but if you need to buy some they can get them for you the cheapest. I guess on the flip side alot of cowboys will sell their soul for a quarter cent a pound. I've taken way worse hookings selling at auction than I ever did on selling in the beef on a grid.

 

[Murgen]

I've taken way worse hookings selling at auction than I ever did on selling in the beef on a grid.

Northern Rancher, that is because you produce a quality product, and you are not adverse to taking on the risk to prove it.

How much is the information you get back on the product you're producing worth to you? Are you able to make adjustments to better meet the market?

 

[Tam]

["HAY MAKER"]First, according to sources on both sides of the border, the trucking infrastructure that existed before the border was closed has disappeared.

Yep that is what we said but you R-CALFers just whined about how the US truckers would be sent to get them.

Second, it's not as if Canadian cattle can move freely across the border. There's a host of new regulations in play that increase the time and effort required to send cattle to the U.S.

Yep we said that too but you said there would be a flood anyway

As an example, each import animal must be identified individually with an official Canadian ear tag, arrive at the port of entry as a sealed shipment with the requisite health certification papers. The seal can only be broken at the final destination, and then only by USDA personnel, certified veterinarians or designees.

Yep that is what it says in the final rules but R-CALF wouldn't believe that would affect the flood of Canadian cattle coming down in all those Canadian trucks doing all that enviroment damage.

Keep in mind, the border has been opened only to non-breeding cattle younger than 30 months of age, and only to single destinations. Fed cattle coming across must go straight to the slaughter facility. Feeder cattle must move directly to a feedlot, which in turn can be the only feedlot of residence prior to harvest

Yep to that one too.

There's also a slug of special import forms and protocols that must be followed.

Can't disagree with you there but then we told you that would affect the so called flood didn't we?

Simply put, the market has changed and the dollars aint there,with the cost of diesel,trucks hard to find and added red tape which adds to costs,add the strenghting canadian dollar and its easy to see why canadian cattle are staying home...................good luck

expences, shortage of trucks, regulations and strong Canadian dollar. Add to that the INCREASE IN CANADIAN SLAUGHTER CAPACITY and I THINK HE'S GOT IT. WOW Haymaker we are proud of you

it only took how long for you to see the truth about the flood of Canadian cattle that were supposedly standing at the border ready to destroy your markets tha day the border openned? :clap: :clap: :wink:

Well,evidently you have'nt seen the truth yet,because I never heard anyone except you canuckle heads spinning the facts,saying R CALF was saying canadian cattle was going to flood the "US" market,every body knew that was malarkey except you,I believe you get windier every day.......................good luck "CB"

You are so full of it your eyes are brown. R-CALF has said all alone that the Canadian feeders are just waiting at the borders to flood your markets and drive down your prices. They even added their concerns on the enviroment that all those trucks hauling that backlog of cattle would cause on the US roads, to their sorry lawsuit. Even after the NCBA was in Canada and said our feedlots were current R-CALF said they didn't know what they were talking about because all they did was come to Canada and sit on a bar stool. After the USDA came and said the numbers in Canada were overstated because the increase in our slaughter capacity hadn't been taken into consideration. and confirmed our feedlots were current. R-CALF still claimed that the US would be flooded as soon as the border opened because of the huge backlog of cattle. Well it didn't happen for all the reasons we told you it wouldn't and now you don't have the integrity to admit your lying Leo and Bullsh** Bulland were wrong. I feel sorry for you Haymaker to have heros that have let you down again.

Every body knew that was malarkey except you,

Yes including me, and everyone should have known because R-CALF claimed it and we all know how they LIE. But you and the rest of the band of real intellegent supporters have defended their every word and you know you have, Even when they took their lies to court. :roll:

 

[HAY MAKER]

Could you provide some proof that Bullard or Leo said the opening of the border to "UTM" cattle would flood the "US" market,I seemed to have missed all that,as the only place I heard this was you saying they said it :???: .....................good luck cb

 

[Tam]

Could you provide some proof that Bullard or Leo said the opening of the border to "UTM" cattle would flood the "US" market,I seemed to have missed all that,as the only place I heard this was you saying they said it :???: .....................good luck cb

Thought you would ask Haymaker

Where do you think this came from

October 2003 -- The fastest growing cattlemen's group in the country, R-CALF, was founded by Leo McDonnell primarily on one issue: that if we weren't flooded by imports of both beef and cattle from our northern and southern neighbors that we could have a cattle business in this country that was both profitable and sustainable. It took a Canadian mad cow to prove R-CALF's thesis correct. Once the border was closed cattlemen on this side received the highest prices in history for their stock. In October of 2003 the price of fat cattle averaged 105.50 for the month!

March 2, 2005 -- With just five days to go before the USDA was to open the border R-CALF once again won a preliminary injunction to stop the upcoming opening. A Montana judge said that there were food safety and health issues that the USDA had not fully addressed and he did not feel it was prudent to open the border until those issues had a full hearing in his courtroom. Later the judge would set a court date of July 27, 2005 to hear all sides. Judging by Judge Cebull's language in the injunction R-CALF felt that there was a 50/50 chance that when R-CALF did get their day in court they might also be able to stop the flood of Canadian beef that was coming across the border in boxes. Because slaughter cattle, cow and bull beef were no longer coming across the border the average cow price for the month, according to Cattle Fax, was an amazing 58.25! The year prior to mad cow the average was 37.29.
July 18, 2005 -- Trucks loaded with Canadian cattle were already rolling into the U.S. On the same day, October feeder cattle closed $2/cwt lower. On this day packers were bidding $77 and $78 and some weren't bidding at all. The negative effect of this decision was already apparent. Limiting the exodus somewhat was the permit process and the fact that many Canadian truckers had either parked their trucks, quit or are hauling something else. But it did not take long to gear up as 123 permits for export were written up in the first few days.-----

We also wanted to prove that you really do owe the last couple good years to a real cattlemen's organization: R-CALF. If you'll recall, it was founded on the idea that we could be profitable if imports could be controlled. The R-CALF founders were prophets. Or maybe we should spell that PROFITS . . . because you may have just seen your last of those for awhile.

And what was the real agenda of R-CALF? can you say to stop the flood of cattle and beef from coming in from our northern neighbors Haymaker? By the way Haymaker this little quote is from the US media wizard Lee Pitts, you seem to know him. R-CALF takes credit for stopping the flood. according to Lee :wink:

 

[HAY MAKER]

I thought I asked you to provide a lil info,that B Bullard or Leo stated that "UTM" cattle would flood the "usa" market when the border opened,to live cattle,not a general quote by Lee................good luck

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I thought I asked you to provide a lil info,that B Bullard or Leo stated that "UTM" cattle would flood the "usa" market when the border opened,to live cattle,not a general quote by Lee................good luck

You are a sad little man Haymaker. Your heros have fallen. Even your mentor Lee Pitts was proven WRONG. Poor Poor Pitiful You. :cry2: :cowboy:

 

[Northern Rancher]

Murgen I guess we've learned that we have more than enough marbling% AAA's in the high 90's-I'd like a few more Y1's and 2's but afraid to sacrifice doing ability in the cowherd to get it. The only way we use carcass data so far in management decisions is to breed some of our cows that produce Y1-AAA's to certain bulls to raise bulls for our own use.

 

[Tam]

I thought I asked you to provide a lil info,that B Bullard or Leo stated that "UTM" cattle would flood the "usa" market when the border opened,to live cattle,not a general quote by Lee................good luck

Haymaker you are so pathetic, You post Lee's rambling on here and think we should all read them but when I bring one of his writing to prove R-CALF has claimed a Canadian flood of cattle will happen if the border opens you claim it just a general quote.

Well Quote this ,

From R-CALF USA Position paper on the USDA final rule.

The United States can not merely implement rules with regards to opening cattle and beef trade with Canada, it also must act to harmonize BSE prevention standards globally. Without such action the US cattle industry might well be swamped under a flood of Canadian beef and Cattle if the USDA's border rule is implimented before foreign markets reopen to US produces.

But foreign markets didn't open did they Haymaker?

And can you deny that R-CALF used the affect importing a flood of 2 million Canadian cattle in 2005 will have on the enviroment in the US, in their law suit? after the USDA and the NCBA told them the numbers of Canadian cattle were over estimated because our slaughter capacity was not takin in to consideration.

Now if these comments were in the documents who do you think told the lawyers to use them? come on Haymaker deny it was Leo and Bill.

Deny Deny Deny Haymaker R-CALF said there would be a flood, you agreed until it didn't happen, now you say everyone knew it was malarkey. So admit it R-CALF put the flood idea out there to scare producer into supporting the border being closed. If you have any integrity at all you will admit it and stop the dancing.