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The real reason's canadian cattle have'nt flooded the market

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~SH~ said:
Haymaker,

WHO WROTE THE ORIGINAL POST ON THIS THREAD?

I know it wasn't you, who wrote it?

Why do you keep diverting the question?

Trying to impress someone by signing your "........good luck" to someone else's statements?



~SH~

You know I dont answer questions asked by a two bit packer employee,and if I was trying to impress some one by claiming another's statements,there is a pretty good chance it was'nt you,so why worry about it,the statements are simple and truthful............good luck
 
HAY MAKER said:
~SH~ said:
Haymaker,

WHO WROTE THE ORIGINAL POST ON THIS THREAD?

I know it wasn't you, who wrote it?

Why do you keep diverting the question?

Trying to impress someone by signing your "........good luck" to someone else's statements?



~SH~

You know I dont answer questions asked by a two bit packer employee,and if I was trying to impress some one by claiming another's statements,there is a pretty good chance it was'nt you,so why worry about it,the statements are simple and truthful............good luck





Haymaker , you know I'm not a packer employee as i sold my yearligs at the sale barn so I will ask who wrote the article that started this thread?
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
HAY MAKER said:
~SH~ said:
Haymaker,

WHO WROTE THE ORIGINAL POST ON THIS THREAD?

I know it wasn't you, who wrote it?

Why do you keep diverting the question?

Trying to impress someone by signing your "........good luck" to someone else's statements?



~SH~

You know I dont answer questions asked by a two bit packer employee,and if I was trying to impress some one by claiming another's statements,there is a pretty good chance it was'nt you,so why worry about it,the statements are simple and truthful............good luck





Haymaker , you know I'm not a packer employee as i sold my yearligs at the sale barn so I will ask who wrote the article that started this thread?


Big dummie trying to act like a sale barn regular,that's too funny.Next you will be telling me your a member of the "LMA"...............good luck
 
Where's the original post gone? Are we now to believe the real reason Canadian Cattle are not crossing the border is "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"

Haymaker, why not tell us what the NCBA said about live cattle concerns, and how it will affect imports of live cattle? How does this differ from what RCALF said?
 
Murgen said:
Where's the original post gone? Are we now to believe the real reason Canadian Cattle are not crossing the border is "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"

SH was trying to use it to twist some facts so I deleted it,the real reason canadian cattle are not crossing the border in suffcient numbers to impact prices of live cattle,is because the trucks that were hauling cattle have almost disappeared,meaning it is not easy to find trucks to haul cattle.

And its not like canadian cattle can move freely across the border,lots of paper work/red tape that increases costs to send cattle to the U.S.

Also Each imported animal must be wearing an official canadian ear tag that identifies it individually.

Arrive at the border in a sealed trailer with the required health papers.
Then and only then the seal can only be broken at the final destination by "usda" personel or certified veternarians.

Remember the border is only open to non breeding cattle that are "utm"
and only to a single location.

There is also special import forms and protocols that must be followed,
simply put the conditions for moving live cattle south have changed,the lack of trucks,the cost of diesel,additional red tape/paper work and protcols have all added to the costs,add the strenghtening Canadian dollar and its plain to see why canadian cattle are staying home.

Miss Tam reminded me of the increased slaughter capacity,and I agree ,but I had left that off originally because some one might get the impression that there just may be too much boxed beef coming south? :wink: ...................good luck
 
Quoting a story in the Beef Business Bulletin, Sept. 15, 2005 edition:

"The United States on July 18 accepted the first live shipments of Canadian cattle since the border was closed on May 20, 2003. THROUGH THE END OF AUGUST, THE USA HAD IMPORTED 83,000 HEAD." (the emphasis in caps is mine)

Does anyone know how much boxed beef was imported from Canada during that same time period?
And how do those numbers compare with past performance?

MRJ
 
It also seems that all this talk by R-Calf and the northern states is having the effect of accelerating the movement of cattle south. The more they talk of wanting to close the border, the more cattle are being drawn south. Having the prospect of a closed border dangled in front of them has made some American buyers much more willing to accept the trucking, logistical and red tape problems associated with importing Canadian cattle.

Thanks to Mr. Bullard and friends, calves are now worth enough here that Canadian feeders can't even begin to touch them. Now isn't that ironic? :?

And thanks to the nitpickers at the USDA, with their new rules every week, it's becoming more difficult to ship them south. Now isn't that ironic? :?

So what is happening is that R-Calf, saviour of the American cattleman, is driving feeder prices up in Canada, and help to bring on the Canadian cattle, while the USDA, major villain in the eyes of the American cattleman, is helping slow the movement of Canadian cattle into the American market. :shock:

Who'da thought it? 8)
 
Kato, your observation is completely correct. r-calfers have, by they own actions, consistently worked against themselves every time they have tried to en-act their convoluted thinking.

They curse out the packers, which to some extent the packers deserved, but who has helped to consolidate the packers' positions more than r-calf has in the past two, going on three, years?

They have pronounced to the world that no beef is safe from a country with BSE, but now that their herd has BSE, do they back off on their blind accusations? Not that you'd notice, they haven't.

They are kinda like the stumbling drunk that is so absurd that you think he couldn't do anything more stupid than his last escapade, but he manages to do one worse than the last one.

Someone recently remarked about someone else that was a few cards short of a deck - "If he had one more neuron, he'd have a synapse." I think it might apply to those guys.

:lol2: :lol2: :kid: :lol2: :lol2:
 
MRJ

You probably already use this site to get your numbers, but just in case you don't have it:

http://www.ers.usda.gov/news/BSECoverage.htm

(don't let the name fool you)

The search engine will probably find most everything you are looking for.
Also scroll to the bottom for some Canadian #s
 
Looks to me like Hayseed emailed someone to ask them how he should respond to the fact that the Canadian border is opened and calf prices haven't fallen.

What he got in response was a bunch of empty rhetoric:

"...the real reason canadian cattle are not crossing the border in suffcient numbers to impact prices of live cattle,is because the trucks that were hauling cattle have almost disappeared,meaning it is not easy to find trucks to haul cattle.

And its not like canadian cattle can move freely across the border,lots of paper work/red tape that increases costs to send cattle to the U.S.

Also Each imported animal must be wearing an official canadian ear tag that identifies it individually.

Arrive at the border in a sealed trailer with the required health papers.
Then and only then the seal can only be broken at the final destination by "usda" personel or certified veternarians.

Remember the border is only open to non breeding cattle that are "utm"
and only to a single location.

There is also special import forms and protocols that must be followed,
simply put the conditions for moving live cattle south have changed,the lack of trucks,the cost of diesel,additional red tape/paper work and protcols have all added to the costs,add the strenghtening Canadian dollar and its plain to see why canadian cattle are staying home."


Did anyone see any Canadian import comparisons of live cattle and boxed beef to other years? Neither did I!

MORE RED HERRINGS!


Haymaker,

WHO WROTE THIS?????????

Why don't you answer the question??????



~SH~
 
First, according to sources on both sides of the border, the trucking infrastructure that existed before the border was closed has disappeared.

Second, it's not as if Canadian cattle can move freely across the border. There's a host of new regulations in play that increase the time and effort required to send cattle to the U.S.

As an example, each import animal must be identified individually with an official Canadian ear tag, arrive at the port of entry as a sealed shipment with the requisite health certification papers. The seal can only be broken at the final destination, and then only by USDA personnel, certified veterinarians or designees.

Keep in mind, the border has been opened only to non-breeding cattle younger than 30 months of age, and only to single destinations. Fed cattle coming across must go straight to the slaughter facility. Feeder cattle must move directly to a feedlot, which in turn can be the only feedlot of residence prior to harvest.

There's also a slug of special import forms and protocols that must be followed.

Simply put, the market has changed and the dollars aint there,with the cost of diesel,trucks hard to find and added red tape which adds to costs,add the strenghting canadian dollar and its easy to see why canadian cattle are staying home...................good luck




Haymaker is this the article you deleted. What are you afraid the author will be mad at you for using their post and claiming it for your own? :cowboy:
 
Miss Tam reminded me of the increased slaughter capacity,and I agree , but I had left that off originally because some one might get the impression that there just may be too much boxed beef coming south?

I reminded you about the slaughter capacity after you posted, to which you agree, but you had left that off originally because some one might get the impression---- . Thanks for agreeing with me but it I reminded you after how did you know to leave it out because some might get an impression of something? :roll:
Come on Haymaker I proved R-CALF said there would be a flood of Canadian cattle and Bullard and Leo think of the border being closed as a economic boost to US producers, that are recovering from years of depressed prices. So why can't you just tell us who wrote the info you posted? While you are at it show some integrity and admit R-CALF was wrong? :wink:
 
I always like to read you canuckle heads posts,some how I just don'nt feel as bad about my 6th grade education..................good luck
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
So you can read but we are still wondering who wrote that post for you? :cowboy:

All I can tell you BD,is it was a packer lover,and like I have stated many times on many talk forums,I like to post both sides of an issuse,I guess its just my nature to be unbiased.................... :D ..good luck PS tell me why you are so interested and I may make an exception.
 
HAY MAKER said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
So you can read but we are still wondering who wrote that post for you? :cowboy:

All I can tell you BD,is it was a packer lover,and like I have stated many times on many talk forums,I like to post both sides of an issuse,I guess its just my nature to be unbiased.................... :D ..good luck PS tell me why you are so interested and I may make an exception.


So was this packer lover your lover or just a friend? The reason i wanted to know so that I could thank them for giving you the straight goods, sort of.
 
Hayseed: "All I can tell you BD, is it was a packer lover, and like I have stated many times on many talk forums,I like to post both sides of an issuse, I guess its just my nature to be unbiased.................... "

It was a packer lover but it's your nature to be unbiased.

HAHAHA! Talk about a direct contradiction.


Here's an article that appears very similar but I don't see all the exact same quotes as Hayseed presented:


by Wes Ishmael

Undoubtedly, the flow will increase, but when the border finally opened to live Canadian cattle (younger than 30 months of age) July 14, there was less hoopla and dust than lots of folks expected, especially those who opposed to the move.
By the end of the first week that the border was open, USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service reported about 1,000 head of Canadian fed cattle moving across the border to U.S. packers, and no significant numbers of feeder steers and heifers were reported. Judging by the futures markets, which didn't react much on a net basis, there's no expectation of dramatic market disruptions here.

For perspective, Darrell Mark, an agricultural economist at the University of Nebraska calculated in a recent analysis that fed cattle Canadian imports to the U.S. for 2000-2002 averaged about 16,000 head per week. That represented about three percent of the U.S. slaughter production for those months. According to Mark, feeder cattle imports for the same months in 2000-2002 averaged about 4,800 head per week, but he also points out those numbers are inflated with atypically large import volume in 2002 spawned by the Canadian drought at the time.

Still, you'd think if there were a backlog of cattle that Canadian producers were desperate to peddle, a convoy would have been on the road.


What If You Threw a Party and No One Came?

Fact is there's less economic incentive for Canadian producers to ship cattle South than there once was. Though live cattle imports from Canada had been prohibited for better than two years, fed beef has continued to come across in the box, meaning that producers there have maintained some semblance of a U.S. market since September of 2003 (the border was shut when BSE was discovered in Canada in May of that year).

Further, the Canadian dollar has grown stronger, relative to the U.S., and freight costs have increased. At the same time, Canada has expanded its own slaughter capacity and ability to compete in the international export market, while America's own overbuilt packing industry remains locked out of a majority of the export markets it previously enjoyed, at a time when keeping blood on the floor has gotten tougher as fed cattle supplies have narrowed with the cattle cycle.

On the other end, while domestic consumer beef demand isn't heading south, most analysts agree that it has flattened, meaning the industry cannot simply expect increasing beef prices to compensate for the economic pressure created by underutilized packer and feeding capacity.

Even if there was a bubble of Canadian cattle looking for a U.S. address, apparently wishing them across the border is not the same as moving them across.

First, according to sources on both sides of the border, the trucking infrastructure that existed before the border was closed has contracted mightily, meaning it's not necessarily easy to find a ride for cattle.

Second, it's not as if Canadian cattle can move freely across the border. There's a host of new regulations in play that increase the time and effort required to send cattle to the U.S.

As an example, each import animal must be identified individually with an official Canadian ear tag, arrive at the port of entry as a sealed shipment with the requisite health certification papers. The seal can only be broken at the final destination, and then only by USDA personnel, certified veterinarians or designees.

Keep in mind, the border has been opened only to non-breeding cattle younger than 30 months of age, and only to single destinations. Fed cattle coming across must go straight to the slaughter facility. Feeder cattle must move directly to a feedlot, which in turn can be the only feedlot of residence prior to harvest.

There's also a slug of special import forms and protocols that must be followed. For complete details: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/issues/bse/bse.html.

With all of this said, any market disruption at the hands of resumed Canadian live cattle trade will occur at precisely the time of year the majority of U.S. cattle producers are marketing their own calves. This, opposed to getting any market shocks out of the way last spring. As you likely know, the rule was set to go into effect March 7. That was before R-CALF hijacked the decision from producers and placed it in the hands of the court. The reason the border is open now is that an appeals court lifted the temporary injunction that had been issued by a district court in Montana. Following the decision of the appeals court to lift the temporary injunction, the district court cancelled the hearing it had scheduled for July 27. On June 25, the appeals court issued its opinion for the reason it overturned the temporary injunction. In that lengthy opinion, the appeals court refutes the assertions brought by R-CALF in the original complaint, and it rejects all of the grounds the district court based its temporary injunction upon. The bottom line expectation of many is that this effectively neuters the R-CALF complaint.

If you'll remember, R-CALF brought the complaint, arguing in part, that USDA's proposed minimum-risk rule threatened the safety of the U.S. cattle herd and beef supply. On March 3, the district court in Montana issued the temporary injunction, saying in part, "The serious irreparable harm that will occur when Canadian cattle and meat enter the U.S. and commingle with the U.S. meat supply justifies the issuance of a preliminary injunction preventing the expansion of imports allowed under the final rule pending a review on the merits," No science, no proof, just this dubious conclusion that the appellate court recently refuted.


The Loss That Keeps Giving

It's impossible to know the ultimate economic impact the added delay will have on the U.S. industry.

Using Mark's fed cattle averages presented earlier, he calculates a negative price impact of 4.0-4.5 percent on fed cattle prices would be expected with trader resumption, or about $3.50/cwt. on an $80/cwt. fed market. He believes the impact is likely to be less than that for a number of reasons, however. The minimum risk rule should push more older cattle to slaughter in Canada, which in effect means less beef available for export to the U.S. Plus, a larger proportion of Canadian cattle will likely be staying at home to service that nation's increased harvest capacity.

Anecdotally, there's no question that the U.S. packing industry has come under more economic pressure for a longer period of time that it otherwise would have, and that the Canadian packing industry has had more time to build capacity and competitive advantage. On both counts, logic says that means the U.S. has likely lost some of its packing capacity in the long-run, which means less competition, which in turn makes for a less robust marketplace.

According to the American Meat Institute (AMI), the protracted embargo on Canadian cattle and beef has cost the U.S. packing industry nearly 8,000 jobs, has set in motion a fundamental restructuring of the North American beef industry and has driven beef prices paid by consumers to the highest levels since 1979.

Arguably, key U.S. beef export markets have been able to utilize the unresolved U.S.-Canadian border issue as a key strategy in their stalemate with the U.S. Every day that goes by without fully recovered beef export trade is another day that U.S. fed cattle bring about $10/cwt. less than they would if all pre-BSE markets were open. Especially now, as feedlot losses mount, the extra money would provide cushion for feeder cattle and feeder calf bids.

"The court's expeditious ruling is a vindication of the U.S. Department of Agriculture's thoughtful, science-based rulemaking process that would have lifted the embargo in March had a lower court not granted a preliminary injunction against the rule," explains J. Patrick Boyle, AMI president. "U.S. and Canadian beef are safe. U.S. and Canadian cattle are healthy. The North American beef industry should be permitted to trade in cattle and beef, unimpeded by the selfish efforts of protectionistic groups like R-CALF, who aim to block imports of cattle and beef so they can maintain high profits."

What has the U.S. cattle industry received in return for the delay imposed by some of the industry's own producers? There's been no change to the rule established by USDA to this point—if the district court sides with the appellate decision there won't be—nor from a safety standpoint does it appear there needed to be any. The market has eroded from its point in March, which would have happened anyway, but perhaps not as much as it has with the added delay. Animosity has increased with Canada and its producers. The list of negatives goes on. Try to find a positive, though.

Jim McAdams, NCBA president summed it up this way, soon after the border opening was announced: "Because our trade issues landed in the courts, we now have a court ruling coming during the peak of our marketing. I for one am hoping we can put these court battles behind us so producers can regain control over the decisions that impact their profitability. We have too much yet to get done to distract ourselves with judicial panels and trial lawyers."


Either way, I knew Hayseed didn't write it.


~SH~
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
HAY MAKER said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
So you can read but we are still wondering who wrote that post for you? :cowboy:

All I can tell you BD,is it was a packer lover,and like I have stated many times on many talk forums,I like to post both sides of an issuse,I guess its just my nature to be unbiased.................... :D ..good luck PS tell me why you are so interested and I may make an exception.


So was this packer lover your lover or just a friend?
The reason i wanted to know so that I could thank them for giving you the straight goods, sort of.

The author would have to be a canadian hussie for me to be interested in her as a lover.Not all of us are as kinky as you and KD Lang,I dont give a damn if she is canada's national treasure :mad: :mad: :mad: .....good luck
 

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