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To Buy or retain heifers

S

scout

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
273
Location
southeast Iowa
Hey guys. I'm still alive. I have a financal question about buying cows/heifers versus raising heifers. In the past years I've always bought cows either from the sale barn or from a neighbors etc. I know there are percs for both sides . Now my herd is to a point that I want to retain some heifers but I don't know how to justify loosing the revenue off the heifers I would retain . then its two years before you see the revenue from those heifers.some of the advantages are one most important dispostion ,genetics
I was curious how some of you penciled it out. Do you price the heifers at market price or at the cost of production
 
scout said:
Hey guys. I'm still alive. I have a financal question about buying cows/heifers versus raising heifers. In the past years I've always bought cows either from the sale barn or from a neighbors etc. I know there are percs for both sides . Now my herd is to a point that I want to retain some heifers but I don't know how to justify loosing the revenue off the heifers I would retain . then its two years before you see the revenue from those heifers.some of the advantages are one most important dispostion ,genetics
I was curious how some of you penciled it out. Do you price the heifers at market price or at the cost of production
Click to expand...

Hi Scout, seems like quite awhile ago when you worked on this outfit. :wink: My two cents, and that is all it is worth, is that it is better to obtain cows from raising them out of your own herd. It is satisfying watching your best heifer calves grow into yearling heifers, then become bred heifers, and then they have that first calf and go on to become cows in your herd. To me, this is one of the most enjoyable parts of ranching. A benefit from doing it this way is that they are born and raised on the place where they spend their lifetime producing calves. They know the ranch, and make better mothers because of this. It is also easier to keep a uniform look to your cattle herd by doing it this way.

As to your question about valuing the heifer at market price or cost of production, I believe you should value them at market price. Cost of production is irrelevant because they are worth whatever they are worth.
 
I too recommend raiseing your own.We purchased 24 bred heifers in 02 and they were the biggest disapointment I've had.Not all of your replacements will make good cows but what you will find is some of those "FANCY" heifers will end up doing nothing and the average type will be the real money makers.I take alot of pride in my repacement heifers their the future of your operation.
 
The only thing about keeping your own is you have to have a long term plan. Bull selection is even more critical.
That being said I always keep my own. Unless you have a close friend who will let you go out in their herd and pick the ones you want, you can always eliminate the ones you don't want much cheaper than buying something you don't like. My experience with purchased females is about 10% will look awful when you get them home if you purchase top end stuff from reputation outfits.
 
It can be argued that you can buy them for less than you can raise them, but I assure you that you can raise better ones. Soapweed is right--keep your own. When cattle are good, any old calf will sell, but when the price is down, quality is what will bring you a better bid, and it may be the difference between loss or no loss. The best quality is a calf out of a good dam and sire. A good sire on a common dam will never give the consistency you need. A neighbor put together a nice set of purchased baldies by buying heifer calves, breeding them, and selling the bottom half or more each year as bred heifers. Remember that free advice is worth everything it costs.
 
Keep your own :-) . They're acclimated to your climate, and know where home is. I've not had the best luck bringing in purchased cattle, but had to do it for several years until I got my genetics improved enough to keep heifers out of my own herd. Home raised cattle can't be beat!
 
Another vote for home raised replacements. Yes, you "can" purchase good replacements but IMO it's a gamble at best. Remember unless it's a complete dispersion you are buying someone else's culls.

That said I did buy some 2-6 yr old bred cows and coming 2 yr old bred heifers back in the '80s. The cows were from a herd with much of the same breeding as my own behind them. A couple were pretty good cows, a couple raised dink calves, and a couple had disposition problems. The rest were average. All things considered my own comparable home raised cows were superior and I wouldn't go that route again.

I actually had better luck and retention rate with the purchased coming 2 yr old heifers. Still some of their daughters and granddaughters in my herd today.
 
If you buy a bred heifer or cow you can depreciate her full value, if you develop your own you can only write off the input expenses for developing them. Depends if you run numbers or quality. With all that being said I would definitely develop my own heifers. You retain the top end of your heifers for cows, and so is the other guy, so you are buying whatever he didn't deem acceptable.
 
The cull rate will be higher on store bought so play that against cash flow. That being said I have had a few duds from my best cows :roll: But I also have a couple of cows that have several daughters in the herd all good producers. More money will be spent on replacement bulls but lately those costs have dropped a bit along with the market. I found that picking from the middle 1/3 of the heifer pen works good. Avoid show heifers :lol:
 
One more vote for raise your own replacements. Most of my reasons for saying that have been listed above. I have raised both commercial and pure bred cattle and once in a awhile I would purchase a pure bred heifer and 9 out of ten times found it not to be as good as what i had at home..They look so good in the sale ring....I guess the big question is can you do with out the income for 2 yrs?..But then maybe now is the time.it all depends on your situation.Might be a good time to talk to your accountant. all just my opinion..so dont shoot me..lol
 
Scout, I've got a deal for you that will involve the best of both worlds. :wink: As we preg check this fall, I am sorting off all of our older cows. We are not done yet, but I expect there to be about 75 head of ten year old cows and about 75 head of eleven and twelve year old cows. These are good producing home-raised one-brand cows that have stood the test of time. Many of their daughters are being retained as our own replacements. With your abundance of Iowa feed, these cows would last another three or four years, and would bear you some wonderful calves. Their daughters would look very nice in your herd in years to come. Just a thought. :-)
 
Everybody thanks for your opioions It is pretty clear as to what I should do and I guess i just needed some oustide opinions to finish pursadeing me. Soapweed it does seem like decades ago I worked for you though it was only 6 1/2 years ago It was one of the high lights of my life and I learned more about the cattle Industry in that time then I could have in a life time here . I appreciate the thought on the aged cows but I have another year before I can start retaining heifers because I have pay down a couple loans. My dad and I purchased a dispersal of cows to years ago they are simmy/angus cross and the calves out of are hereford bulls are faboulous. We have added about 75 pounds to are calves . Now I just need to figure out what to cross the heifers with that will be complementry to them but I have a year to think about it.
 
Let's all admit we think we raise the best cattle out there and nobody's and i mean nobody's compare to ours and the genetics that we have painstakingly chosen and nobody has fed them like we have when in reality there are good cattle out there to be bought.


We would rather save ours but looking it as a business for someone who pays pasture it makes more sense for us to go buy some nice bred black angus heifers in late December or January and have a calf in a couple months then to pay pasture, vet bills, and have a chance for death loss in the two years it takes to develop the ones we keep. It's a businessmans game now in the cattle world with the high cost of expenses and the cattle market not keeping up with it.
 
All of the answers and suggestions on this thread have merit - as far as they go. But the most important protocol for the improvement of your herd hasn't been stressed here. Raising your own replacements or buying them carry the same requirements: the genetic and phenotypic quality of the bulls that you will use, and the Functional traits that both the bulls and heifers will posses. PERIOD! One can cuss and discuss the merits on both sides of the discussion, but if you don't use the very highest quality of bulls (semen) for your next crop of calves, you are just treading water, and hoping for a miracle - just because the seedstock is "different". "DIFFERENT" doesn't necessarily mean "BETTER"!

Investigation after investigation has proven that the financial variance is almost a wash - everything considered. But, there are other factors to bring into the decision to raise or buy replacements, and in the opinion of Dan Childs of Noble Foundation, for most commercial beef producers with herds of a few hundred (about 300) cows, or less, it is NOT economically feasible to raise their own replacements. Too many pounds per calf are sacrificed by using bulls strong in maternal traits, and too much of the resource base is given up for the development of the replacements. After adding the complexity of managing forage resources and multiple classes of animals, the analysis provides strong numbers and reasoning to PURCHASE replacement females rather than raise them.

Some of the other considerations that have been mentioned, such as familiarity with the 'home range' and climate, etc., have a measure of merit, but the MOST critical consideration is the genetic improvement to be anticipated and EXPECTED by the use of improving genetics with the bulls that one uses! This selection protocol is necessary whether a breeder buys his replacements, raises them, or acquires them by buying bred cows with replacements in utero, or has a professional operation raise them for him. The Genetic Quality of the BULL(S) which SIRE your replacements is crucial to your success.

I think that in the final analysis of your making the "buy/raise" decision, it comes down to the ultimate quality of the seedstock, both bulls AND cows, that you utilize for your FUTURE successes.

A GOOD BULL is half of your herd. A POOR BULL is your ENTIRE herd!

DOC HARRIS
 
DOC HARRIS said:
All of the answers and suggestions on this thread have merit - as far as they go. But the most important protocol for the improvement of your herd hasn't been stressed here. Raising your own replacements or buying them carry the same requirements: the genetic and phenotypic quality of the bulls that you will use, and the Functional traits that both the bulls and heifers will posses. PERIOD! One can cuss and discuss the merits on both sides of the discussion, but if you don't use the very highest quality of bulls (semen) for your next crop of calves, you are just treading water, and hoping for a miracle - just because the seedstock is "different". "DIFFERENT" doesn't necessarily mean "BETTER"!
Click to expand...

This even applies to Presidential candidates. There are no guaranties that "change" is for the better. :wink:

DOC HARRIS said:
Investigation after investigation has proven that the financial variance is almost a wash - everything considered. But, there are other factors to bring into the decision to raise or buy replacements, and in the opinion of Dan Childs of Noble Foundation, for most commercial beef producers with herds of a few hundred (about 300) cows, or less, it is NOT economically feasible to raise their own replacements. Too many pounds per calf are sacrificed by using bulls strong in maternal traits, and too much of the resource base is given up for the development of the replacements. After adding the complexity of managing forage resources and multiple classes of animals, the analysis provides strong numbers and reasoning to PURCHASE replacement females rather than raise them.

Some of the other considerations that have been mentioned, such as familiarity with the 'home range' and climate, etc., have a measure of merit, but the MOST critical consideration is the genetic improvement to be anticipated and EXPECTED by the use of improving genetics with the bulls that one uses! This selection protocol is necessary whether a breeder buys his replacements, raises them, or acquires them by buying bred cows with replacements in utero, or has a professional operation raise them for him. The Genetic Quality of the BULL(S) which SIRE your replacements is crucial to your success.

I think that in the final analysis of your making the "buy/raise" decision, it comes down to the ultimate quality of the seedstock, both bulls AND cows, that you utilize for your FUTURE successes.

A GOOD BULL is half of your herd. A POOR BULL is your ENTIRE herd!

DOC HARRIS
Click to expand...

You make some valid points, Doc, but it all depends on what criteria one is looking for in determining what makes a genetically superior bull to breed up one's herd. Thirty years ago it was easy. Everyone's cattle were too small. Bigger was better. Now that is not the case. If you go for too much carcass traits, the heifers don't milk good enough. If you go for milk, the cows give too much milk and bad udders come into play. My object is to buy good middle-of-the-road bulls of uniform quality, as cheaply as I can. I just want a good middle of the road moderate type of cow herd. With this moderation, it will never be too hard to tweak things a bit to somewhat follow the popular trends.
 
Soap weed I gave up the bull riding shortly after I left Nebraska I got tired of traveling so much and had to put my priorities in more important places. I did raise a couple bucking bulls out of some beefmaster cows crossed with a limmy bull.They did ok but there are easier ways to make money. I have considered maybe trying some saddle bronc riding but haven't cleared it with the wife :lol:
 
Doc harris you bring up some really good points . I'm certainly under the 300 head mark . I ve found when buying cows even off dispersals if you buy 10 cows only7 will make it to the next breeding season and only 50% will make it to the 3rd breeding season . by the time you pay intrest on those cows I think it is pretty close to retaining the cost of retaining your own heifers.
 

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