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Training with rattlesnakes

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bakSovrbar

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Maple Creek, Saskatchewan, Canada
Hi all!

I have a pup I have raised from nine weeks old - great dog. Doesn't have a head foe cows, but plan ignores them which works for me.

He's half chocolate lab, half husky. But the husky was also a mutt, so I really have idea what else might be mixed up in him.

His name is Halo, he's the best dog I've ever had. Never barks – well, I've heard him bark three or four times I guess. Anyway, he trains very easily based on my experience thus far.

I live in Canada, near rattlesnake country. But moreover, I actually have a rattlesnake hobby. I like to find them, photograph them and move them off the road if they're in danger of being hit. (Next month I am going to Texas on a snake trip and I try to get to Arizona as often as I can)

Have any of you ever trained your dog to stay away from rattlers by yourself? How so?

I'd actually like to train mine to hold still and point (he has the pointing instinct.) Any advice would be helpful and appreciated.

I have thrown in a coupla' pics. :)

Thanks!

Halotired.jpg


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he's kinda cute, but i'm not sure how long it's gonna last. :wink: we certainly have different policies when it comes to rattlesnakes.... you move them off the road so they don't get hit, i'll take the ditch to make sure they do get hit. :? :wink:
 
I live in Canada, near rattlesnake country. But moreover, I actually have a rattlesnake hobby. I like to find them, photograph them and move them off the road if they're in danger of being hit. (Next month I am going to Texas on a snake trip and I try to get to Arizona as often as I can)
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hmmm ok if thats what make you happy. BUT I will warn ya most around this part of Texas would rather have as many dead then saved.......
Sorry but I do have it down to a science how to slam on the brakes just at the right moment to tear them apart and a sure kill.
Maybe if you have had to have a dog,horse or cow treated for snake bite you might be of different mind.
Good luck in your hobby and have fun in Texas
 
I know the risks - but I also believe everything has its place in this world.

And, I also know the problems that gophers cause to pasture land and the difference between land with rattlers and land without is like night and day.
As a result, the ranchers in this part of the world have more of a head for conserving them than killing them. As a result of having few gophers, the badgers are rare too in snake country here and most have not lost many or any critters to the snakes, so everyone seems to get along in these parts.

Yeah, I am pretty excited to see Texas. I have a ranching friend there who is also into weird critters, so I am sure we're going to have a blast.

How many of you have lost a dog to a rattler?
And how many cattle? I guess depending on where you are, a calf or cow might die because different species have different venom strengths.
But in North and South Dakota, Montana, and the other northern states, it sure shouldn't be often as we share that species and its bite is especially potent to cattle or other large mammals.

Anyway, different hobby, I know. But they also do a lot of good for us too. :)
I know of a trainer in New Mexico I can see, but that's a pretty far drive from Canada.

I guess y'all not so fond of tarantulas, either?

Anyway, my dog has kept all his colours and has turned into a very stately lookin' dog, very handsome.

Thanks all!
 
MsSage said:
I guess y'all not so fond of tarantulas, either?
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WRONG LOL
they are soooooooooooooo cool LOL We have been gettting a bunch at the prison this past week.
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\

:? Note to self.... don't get incarcerated in Texas :shock: :shock: I don't like spiders and snakes.
 
Why are you getting a bunch at the prison? Can you take a pic? I'd love to know what species they are. Probably mature males looking for a female - they have a limited expiry date once they mature.

I'll try to keep my geekiness to a minimum from now on. :)
 
I dunno...but your best bet on the time of year to come to Texas lookin for rattle snakes would probably be the first part of March. They catch them by the thousands for the Sweetwater Rattlesnake Roundup. That's when they are comin outta their dens. Well...maybe just prior to their coming out. Because they do catch them by the den fulls.

We had tarantulas like crazy growin up in West Texas. Also.....found out that the itty bitty red velvet bugs that we called "rain bugs" (because they were only out after a good hard rain) were actually baby tarantulas. I caught some and took in to the science teacher to look at. We played with those things carried em around in our hands when we were kids. They were soooo soft!

And I like your pups color.....very unique :D
 
Thanks! He's really a great dog.

I've heard that's a good time to go as well. But, they have just given birth to babies, and they are really cute when they're new, all wobbly like a kitten trying to walk.

Plus, I really need to get away and if I can still find rattlers in Canada in October, I surely won't be skunked in Texas! (I hope, lol)
 
I dunno....it's still perdy hot down here. Usually ya don't see em except at night on the roads. Maybe it's coolin down enough at night out there now that you might find a few. You should be able to find some tarantulas out on the highways at night as well.
 
Yeah I imagine it will be a lot of night hunting, plus we're going to some higher elevations as well for some mountainous species, I imagine it's cooler there.

I can hardly wait to see Texas - have been so many places in the southern U.S., but not there. I will post some pics for sure.

Thanks!
 
We're in prime rattlesnake country and had four dogs bitten in two years. Some dogs have an innate sense to avoid them, some not so much. I took my first two that got bitten (on the same night) to 'rattlesnake proofing' at the bird dog club a few weeks later, along with our two others just in case. It's a once yearly event and they couldn't wait that long to encounter one! Anyway, both bitten dogs went straight up to the 'safe' rattlesnakes (their mouths are wired shut) even though they were still recovering from the bites. Neither of them would get within 50' of a snake afterwards. The two that were in the yard that weren't bitten would not go anywhere near the snakes.

I took third dog I took to a different kind of training at a dog training club, along with one that had previously been bitten, Whereas the bird dog club uses a shock collar, the training club relied on the dog reading their owner's exaggerated reaction to a bull snake. They would turn it loose and have the handler walk past the snake, scream and pull the dog away. The only dog that showed any kind of fear was my one that had already been snake proofed. It was a complete waste of time, and the third dog was bitten two weeks later.

The last one was bitten by accident rather than antagonising the snake, it was laying along the wall outside our doggy door. I took her (and the third dog) to snake proofing with the bird dog club (again a couple of weeks after she'd been bitten!) and she wanted nothing to do with the snake from the outset.

It's just my luck that the snake proofing event is always in August and our dogs seem to get bitten during the last week of July.

Now if we shoot one I use it while it's still moving (but decapitated) and take the dogs out to it with a shock collar on. If they approach it I shock them. It sounds harsh, but it's better than suffering a snake bite.

There is also a rattlesnake vaccine available widely at vets in the Southwest, you might consider that.

I've had two Bloodhounds bitten and they are hard to train to avoid a snake because they use their noses rather than their eyes, by which point it's too late.

I've attached photos of the effects of the bite on two of my dogs. They all recovered, but both of my Bloodhounds suffered necrosis afterwards and lost some of their jowls. The cur and the retriever were fine.

kodiak.jpg


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Sorry to see the effects on your dogs. :(

The antivenin they use is called CroFab and the vets usually buy it at a discount once the expiry passes for human useage. It's incredibly expensive and had to be administered by IV. It costs usually about $2,000 per vial the last time I checked and a bad bite can need 30 or 40 vials.

Being in New Mexico, you have a variety of species of rattlesnakes. What part are you in? Do you happen to know which species was responsible in any of the cases?

I would suspect the culprit in the U.S. that most commonly kills cattle is the Mojave rattlesnake (Crotalus scutulatus).

Different rattlesnakes have different kinds of venoms. Sometimes, a big snake is dangerous because it simply has bigger venom glands and thus, makes more of it. Some smaller snakes have stronger venom, drop for drop, and can be equally dangerous.

In New Mexico, Texas, Arizona and Nevada, the most common rattler is going to be the western diamondback, Crotalus atrox. Its venom is not especially toxic, but it is the second largest rattler and the largest in those states. The largest of all in America is the eastern diamondback, Crotalus adamanteus.

Venoms are all a mix of different components such as neurotoxins (nerves and brain), cytotoxins (muscles and flesh) and hemotoxins (cardiovascular) but some snake species are stronger in some areas than others. It's quite complicated and fascinating from a chemical perspective. There are likely medical uses for some venoms and research is being done as we speak on that. Some tarantula venoms can reverse the damage caused by heart attacks for instance (still in study).

Anyway, I have been around them plenty and have never been bitten. Probably because I'm actually looking for them, compared to someone out camping that forgets to look down before they step over a log. By and large, most bites happen from someone trying to handle them to move them, to show off, etc.

Also, another risk factor to cows would be anaphylactic shock. Just like people who are allergic to shell fish or peanuts, this can happen with rattlesnake venom. The culprit is the proteins in the venom or the peanut or the shellfish. What happens is when it enters the body the first time, (or the second or the third) the body's immune system sees it as a foreign invader and develops a response to it to attack, like a cold or a virus.

Except for some reason, certain proteins can cause the body to go into a frenzy, in an overkill attempt and produce far too many antibodies. The result is a complex total body reaction that lowers blood pressure (among other things) and can cause death.

Because I have over time probably been exposed to rattler venom in tiny amounts by handle dead specimens, by touching my snake hook, etc. I carry an EpiPen in case I do get bitten and suffer such shock. It is possible, if an animal dies shortly after being bitten, that the cause of death was the allergic reaction to the venom rather than the effect of the venom itself. (I would think cattle could experience this, but I haven't researched to find out.)

Anyway, I can totally see why rattlers cause fear and worry, but by and large, they cause very few human deaths in North America and while I couldn't say for certain over there, scours alone takes more calves in one month than rattlers here do in a century.

The training I was going to do with my dog in New Mexico involved the electronic shock method. I am in total favour of doing it because it saves lives and for me, I go out snaking (this is called herping) several times a year. Would be great to have my best friend with me.
 
Rattlesnake person.....yhou're crazy!! Justs plain crazy.....

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Why not try to pet an aligator while you're at it???/ :roll: :roll: :roll:

I hear they're real soft too...........
 
I don't know, I've seen a lot more people hurt at rodeos (which I also adore, and my son is into it) than I have out in the wild looking for snakes and other critters.

I've held a crocodile (well, a caiman) in South America, but it wasn't more than three feet long. Just a baby still. It was pretty cute, actually. :)
 

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