U.S. RANCHERS BAN ON CA BEEF WINS APPEAL

[TimH]

R-CALF wasn't after a tariff - they were wanting a certain practice stopped. Producers don't get any proceeds from a tariff, but were losing money from the practice. Linking R-CALF to protectionism via tariffs and quotas is something our politicians would do - run with a flimsy tale while omitting the real story that would paint a different picture.

I copied the following, from the FAQ section of R-Calf's official website........

Why was R-CALF USA founded?

In 1998 the R-CALF USA was founded as a foundation to represent and file three trade cases on behalf of the U.S. cattle industry. Trade laws are different from domestic laws in that it is generally required that the domestic industry monitors them and files the appropriate petitions when a trade violation occurs that is damaging U.S. prices.

R-CALF USA filed a live cattle and anti-dumping (selling below the cost of production) case against Canada and Mexico , and a countervailing (subsidy) case against Canada. The U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) in January dismissed the Mexico case. In the summer of 1999, the Department of Commerce (DOC) found that Canada was subsidizing the production of live cattle, but not at a high enough rate to warrant penalty tariffs. The DOC in July of 1999 also found Canada was dumping cattle into the U.S. at a high enough rate to warrant tariffs equivalent to the violation to be put on. The U.S. cattle market saw an immediate improvement in their markets.
Unfortunately, the ITC ruled in November of 1999, contrary to the DOC findings, that U.S. producers were not "materially injured" by the dumping of Canadian cattle and the ITC lifted the anti-dumping tariffs imposed by the DOC.

R-Calf takes credit for filing the trade action that resulted in a tariff being imposed. They then say it is unfortunate that the tariff was lifted.

That's because the issue never got solved. Figure it out.

Whatever Sandhusker. The fact of the matter is that R-Calf is a bunch of protectionist whiners, afraid of a little competition. Their actions prove this to be true. Figure it out.
Like Kato said.........."If the shoe fits........" :lol:

 

[Sandhusker]

MLA, " Might you even possess a congratulatory attitude toward the imperialistic approach of "successful" American corporations who cannabalize the industries of smaller countries?"

Absolutely not, far from it. You haven't been reading any of my posts on my views of our multi-nationals. SH calls me anti-corporate and you're trying to lump me with them. Maybe the two of you ought to get together.

MLA, "As we see our Canadian business interests and natural resources get bought up by much wealthier foreign conglomerates, we recognize that the spirit of capitalism is alive and well(?) in North America, like it or not. Mostly not. We have learned that David does not always defeat Goliath."

It's your country, you make the rules on who buys what.

MLA, "Could it be, li'l buddy , that you are starting to see yourself for what you are - just a bit of grist for the mill of American corporate greed? Get ready for a bit of your own medicine and quit squealing like a girl when it is time to take it. We have been bought out and sold out by American corporate interests and you can be, too, because they don't care about you either."

I agree they don't care about any of us, but don't include me in the corporate greed bunch because, as far as I'm concerned, corporate greed and influence is one of the single largest problems we have in this country.

MLA, "TRUTH? The truth is that many importing countries recognize that CDN. beef is in all likelihood some of the safest beef in the world because of the efforts our industry has taken to:

1) PROVIDE TRACIBILITY

2) PROVIDE EFFECTIVE COUNTER-MEASURES

3) PROVIDE OPENESS AND ACCOUNTABILITY

While our system is obviously not fail-safe, WE HAVE AT LEAST TAKEN MEASURES TO DISCOVER AND CONTAIN THE BSE PROBLEM IN NORTH AMERICA."

I'll give you high marks for trying, but 5 post ban positives prove you're not there yet.

MLA, "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE OTHER THAN TRY TO COVER YOUR OWN FAT, LAZY ash UNDER THE GUISE OF HEALTH CONCERNS? YOU AND YOUR KIND ARE NOTHING MORE THAN FREAKING HYPOCRITICAL LIARS."

A "guise" of health concerns? BSE is no little matter, you should know that. You look at other country's actions when a nation discovers BSE and what actions are taken. Google "BSE" and see how many pages come up. Worldwide concern of BSE is more than a "guise".

Me and my kind are trying to get our product situated as the world's standard in quality. We're trying to keep our herd as healthy as can be to meet that goal. We're also trying to keep raising cattle in the US a profitable venture. We want to eradicate BSE in the US and that can not be done if we import it. You can not deny that, under the USDA's proposed rule change that you support, those post ban positives of yours could of been shipped down here - and who knows how many more like them.

You guys are in a bad situation up there because you allowed your packing industry to come under the control of the greedy US corporations that you are cussing. R-CALF had nothing to do with that. Canada, being a sovereign nation, could of stopped it, but I guess you were looking at that check. Those packers have made you dependent on one market for your survival. R-CALF had nothing to do with that, either. You've also allowed the CFIA to become a "yes man" to the USDA which prevents you from doing anything the packer doesn't want to do since the USDA is just a "yes man" to those same packers. Again, R-CALF wasn't involved. If you guys would clean up the mess you allowed to happen, R-CALF's actions would have minimal bearing to you. Some guys up there like Rod and Randy want to do exactly that. Others seem to want to protect and continue the status quo that has them dancing to foreigner's tunes.

 

[Anonymous]

2) PROVIDE EFFECTIVE COUNTER-MEASURES

How anybody can call 5 POST feedban positives that now keep showing up bi-monthly or so, EFFECTIVE counter-measures is beyond me..... :roll:

 

[flounder]

2) PROVIDE EFFECTIVE COUNTER-MEASURES

How anybody can call 5 POST feedban positives that now keep showing up bi-monthly or so, EFFECTIVE counter-measures is beyond me..... :roll:

real simple there ot, you don't look, you don't find.

what's beyond me is folks that keep using the canadian post ban positives as an example. simple, they are looking to find, usda/fda has been doing just the opposite and it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. how come some folks don't understand that, is beyond me. it's hard to imagine what they would find if they looked to find $$$


FDA Statement
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Statement
May 4, 2004
Media Inquiries: 301-827-6242
Consumer Inquiries: 888-INFO-FDA



Statement on Texas Cow With Central Nervous System Symptoms
On Friday, April 30 th , the Food and Drug Administration learned that a cow with central nervous system symptoms had been killed and shipped to a processor for rendering into animal protein for use in animal feed.

FDA, which is responsible for the safety of animal feed, immediately began an investigation. On Friday and throughout the weekend, FDA investigators inspected the slaughterhouse, the rendering facility, the farm where the animal came from, and the processor that initially received the cow from the slaughterhouse.

FDA's investigation showed that the animal in question had already been rendered into "meat and bone meal" (a type of protein animal feed). Over the weekend FDA was able to track down all the implicated material. That material is being held by the firm, which is cooperating fully with FDA.

Cattle with central nervous system symptoms are of particular interest because cattle with bovine spongiform encephalopathy or BSE, also known as "mad cow disease," can exhibit such symptoms. In this case, there is no way now to test for BSE. But even if the cow had BSE, FDA's animal feed rule would prohibit the feeding of its rendered protein to other ruminant animals (e.g., cows, goats, sheep, bison).


http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/news/2004/NEW01061.html


or


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
P01-05
January 30, 2001
Print Media: 301-827-6242
Consumer Inquiries: 888-INFO-FDA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: On Dec. 23, 2003, the U.S. Department of Agriculture reported that a cow in Washington state had tested positive for bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE, or mad cow disease). As a result, information on this Web page stating that no BSE cases had been found in the United States is now incorrect. However, because other information on this page continues to have value, the page will remain available for viewing.

FDA ANNOUNCES TEST RESULTS FROM TEXAS FEED LOT


Today the Food and Drug Administration announced the results of tests taken on feed used at a Texas feedlot that was suspected of containing meat and bone meal from other domestic cattle -- a violation of FDA's 1997 prohibition on using ruminant material in feed for other ruminants. Results indicate that a very low level of prohibited material was found in the feed fed to cattle.

FDA has determined that each animal could have consumed, at most and in total, five-and-one-half grams - approximately a quarter ounce -- of prohibited material. These animals weigh approximately 600 pounds.

It is important to note that the prohibited material was domestic in origin (therefore not likely to contain infected material because there is no evidence of BSE in U.S. cattle), fed at a very low level, and fed only once. The potential risk of BSE to such cattle is therefore exceedingly low, even if the feed were contaminated.


http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2001/NEW00752.html



we know now and we knew then that as much as .05 to 1 gram was lethal, another lie by our regulatory officials. ...tss



The OIG
and the GAO has shown this time and time again. The 2004 Enhanced BSE
surveillance program where some 275,000+ cattle were tested for BSE was
proven to be terribly flawed from the beginning. This documented time and
time again. Even Paul Brown, known and respected TSE scientist, former TSE
expert for the CDC said he had ''absolutely no confidence in USDA tests
before one year ago'', and this was on March 15, 2006 ;

"The fact the Texas cow showed up fairly clearly implied the existence of
other undetected cases," Dr. Paul Brown, former medical director of the
National Institutes of Health's Laboratory for Central Nervous System
Studies and an expert on mad cow-like diseases, told United Press
International. "The question was, 'How many?' and we still can't answer
that."

Brown, who is preparing a scientific paper based on the latest two mad cow
cases to estimate the maximum number of infected cows that occurred in the
United States, said he has "absolutely no confidence in USDA tests before
one year ago" because of the agency's reluctance to retest the Texas cow
that initially tested positive.

USDA officials finally retested the cow and confirmed it was infected seven
months later, but only at the insistence of the agency's inspector general.

"Everything they did on the Texas cow makes everything USDA did before 2005
suspect," Brown said. ...snip...end

http://www.upi.com/ConsumerHealthDaily/view.php?StoryID=20060315-055557-1284r

CDC - Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy and Variant Creutzfeldt ... Dr. Paul
Brown is Senior Research Scientist in the Laboratory of Central Nervous
System ... Address for correspondence: Paul Brown, Building 36, Room 4A-05,
...

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol7no1/brown.htm

PAUL BROWN COMMENT TO ME ON THIS ISSUE

Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:10 AM

"Actually, Terry, I have been critical of the USDA handling of the mad cow
issue for some years, and with Linda Detwiler and others sent lengthy
detailed critiques and recommendations to both the USDA and the Canadian
Food Agency."

OR, what the Honorable Phyllis Fong of the OIG found ;


Audit Report
Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service
Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE) Surveillance Program ­ Phase II
and
Food Safety and Inspection Service

Controls Over BSE Sampling, Specified Risk Materials, and Advanced Meat
Recovery Products - Phase III

Report No. 50601-10-KC January 2006

Finding 2 Inherent Challenges in Identifying and Testing High-Risk Cattle
Still Remain

http://www.usda.gov/oig/webdocs/50601-10-KC.pdf



Report to Congressional Requesters:

February 2005:

Mad Cow Disease:

FDA's Management of the Feed Ban Has Improved, but Oversight Weaknesses
Continue to Limit Program Effectiveness:

[Hyperlink, http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-05-101]:

http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05101.html

http://www.gao.gov/highlights/d05101high.pdf


January 2002 MAD COW DISEASE Improvements in the Animal Feed Ban and
Other Regulatory Areas Would Strengthen U.S. Prevention Efforts GAO-02-183


http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02183.pdf

OIE BSE RECOMMENDATION FOR USA, bought and paid for by your local cattle
dealers i.e. USDA

Date: May 14, 2007 at 9:00 am PST


http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18748

What Do We Feed to Food-Production Animals? A Review of Animal Feed
Ingredients and Their Potential Impacts on Human Health

Date: May 24, 2007 at 6:59 am PST


http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0705&L=sanet-mg&T=0&P=22301


The Economic Impact of B.S.E. on the U.S. Beef Industry: BY NOT TESTING TO
FIND

Date: May 6, 2007 at 3:05 pm PST

http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0705&L=sanet-mg&T=0&P=4687



and the recent OIE reclassification for BSE was another hoot.
nothing like usda et al writing there own report card ;


(Adopted by the International Committee of the OIE on 23 May 2006)

11. Information published by the OIE is derived from appropriate
declarations made by the official Veterinary Services of Member Countries.
The OIE is not responsible for inaccurate publication of country disease
status based on
inaccurate information or changes in epidemiological status or other
significant events that
were not promptly reported to then Central Bureau............

http://www.oie.int/eng/Session2007/RF2006.pdf



BSE GBR ASSESSMENTS


http://www.efsa.eu.int/science/tse_assessments/gbr_assessments/catindex_en.html





EFSA Scientific Report on the Assessment of the Geographical BSE-Risk (GBR) of the United States of America (USA)
Last updated: 19 July 2005
Adopted July 2004 (Question N° EFSA-Q-2003-083)

Report
Summary
Summary of the Scientific Report

The European Food Safety Authority and its Scientific Expert Working Group on the Assessment of the Geographical Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE) Risk (GBR) were asked by the European Commission (EC) to provide an up-to-date scientific report on the GBR in the United States of America, i.e. the likelihood of the presence of one or more cattle being infected with BSE, pre-clinically as well as clinically, in USA. This scientific report addresses the GBR of USA as assessed in 2004 based on data covering the period 1980-2003.

The BSE agent was probably imported into USA and could have reached domestic cattle in the middle of the eighties. These cattle imported in the mid eighties could have been rendered in the late eighties and therefore led to an internal challenge in the early nineties. It is possible that imported meat and bone meal (MBM) into the USA reached domestic cattle and leads to an internal challenge in the early nineties.

A processing risk developed in the late 80s/early 90s when cattle imports from BSE risk countries were slaughtered or died and were processed (partly) into feed, together with some imports of MBM. This risk continued to exist, and grew significantly in the mid 90's when domestic cattle, infected by imported MBM, reached processing. Given the low stability of the system, the risk increased over the years with continued imports of cattle and MBM from BSE risk countries.

EFSA concludes that the current GBR level of USA is III, i.e. it is likely but not confirmed that domestic cattle are (clinically or pre-clinically) infected with the BSE-agent. As long as there are no significant changes in rendering or feeding, the stability remains extremely/very unstable. Thus, the probability of cattle to be (pre-clinically or clinically) infected with the BSE-agent persistently increases.







Publication date: 20 August 2004



http://www.efsa.eu.int/science/tse_assessments/gbr_assessments/573_it.html


http://www.efsa.eu.int/science/tse_assessments/gbr_assessments/573/sr03_biohaz02_usa_report_summary_en1.pdf


http://www.efsa.eu.int/science/tse_assessments/gbr_assessments/573/sr03_biohaz02_usa_report_v2_en1.pdf



TSS

 

[Maple Leaf Angus]

Skimming over your reply helps me remember why I had not lately put any effort into trying to impart even the tiniest bit of reason into your puny r-calf mind, li'l buddy :kid: - it is a complete waste of time.

It is interesting to see that you did not/could not argue the last sentence in my previous post! :lol: :lol: :lol:

As far as the "effective counter-measures", I did say in the next statement that our "system is obviously not fail-safe", if you would happen to be able to read yet, o.t., but in your usual state, it is not surprising that quite a bit of information probably escapes your cloudy attention.:drink:

The bottom line is that we are trying and succeeding in re-establishing our markets and judging by the customers' responses, the U.S. can learn something from how we have handled the situation in Canada.

Ya'know, I just thought of something - imagine how successful we would be in convincing our customers of the safety of our product if we had 1000 F-16 fighter jets and 500 Stealth bombers and 1,000,000 marines to back up our sales pitch! :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: Man, could we ever sell beef! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I wonder how much better that would be than 50 canoes with shotguns in the bow and 100 dogsleds pulled by ferocious wolves. . .


:lol: :lol: :lol:


Attaboy sandhusker et al, yap away . . . :kid: :wave:

 

[rkaiser]

I thought that you and I were quiting this addiction Maple Leaf. What's your excuse for coming back?

I hate to sound like Mr. Ying Yang - although I think those Tibetian Monks have things pretty much figured. I think that old Sanhusker lives with his head in the sand one some issues, but agree with him on others. In fact - I seem to see that in almost everyone who posts on this site.

I don't think that there is anyone left on here who does not see the problems with multinational power control. The problems lie when we try to be too much like those filthy pirates and use issues that we feel can gain those closest to us at the expense of other damn good people.
The border issue is the main one. It has not helped the producer in America the way that Bullard and crew may have you believe and it has certainly helped Cargill and Tyson in ways that we can't even imagine.

Yes Canada has an addiction that needs to be treated. An addiction to the American consumer. Cargill and Tyson enjoy most of the euphoria from that addiction and those producers in Canada who keep thinking that they will not only get a high but will get rich from that addiction are no better than a group of AA preachers who fall off the wagon once a month.

Our ABP/CCA are addicted and their minds are clouded by the minor effects. Survival depends on ourselves and nothing more. I thank those who lead me and hope to show more folks how to not only survive but thrive in this industry as time moves along - without the Cargill/Tyson smack.

Somehow - the smack has gotten to the Rcalf boys as well. They seem to be stuck on the issue of protection - whether it be protection of dollars or protection of a so called healthy herd :roll:

How Johny Machine Gun Tyson and the Cargill Clan must laugh at night knowing that they keep vamboozling those Rcalf clowns. Using there clouded minds to keep the dollars rolling their way, and the power center steadily shifting. The talk of hloding them up and stopping them from getting what they want is the biggest joke Rcalf can muster. You are being used boys - used to help Johnny and the Cargills make even more money and control more of the packing industry every day. Would you check in to the Nillson brothers deal on those two American Plants for me Sandhusker? See if some of your banker buddies can find out if the third largest (and a distant third) packer in Canada is actually backed by one of the two who control in excess of 80% of slaughter and are now vertically integrated from cow calf, to feeder, to sale barn to slaughter house. All the while accepted and supported by our own CCA. :roll:

 

[Sandhusker]

Randy, "The border issue is the main one. It has not helped the producer in America the way that Bullard and crew may have you believe and it has certainly helped Cargill and Tyson in ways that we can't even imagine."

Then why have they lobbied to have it opened since day one after your first case?

 

[Maple Leaf Angus]

Well Randy, I would never even hint that I quit this site, because there are too many good people on here whose correspondence I would miss greatly.

Therefore, in order to increase my enjoyment here and reduce my innate propensity toward the acerbic, I usually limit my exposure to some others who seem to enjoy sucking the life out of people while egging them on to vitriolic, negative responses . . .

Aw shucks, sometimes I break down and jump into the mud with the pigs, forgetting that when one gets into a wrestling match with a pig, you both get covered in $&!^, and the pig likes it!

While it seems that a few obtuse characters have great difficulty comprehending the scope and content of your remarks Randy, let me hoist a cold one in testimony to our common understanding of the situation . . .


Ooops, can't find a Pepsi emoticon! :lol2:

 

[rkaiser]

The only thing they (Cargill and Johhny Machine Gun) lobbied for Sandy was the open border to boxed beef that "they" got within weeks. The rest of the stuff that you keep posting about the AMI etc. is all a smoke screen old boy. Of course the little packers want, and always have wanted the border open to survive. That is part of the picture that you and your Rcalf buds don't seem to see. Cargill and Tyson are using your blind approach to bury those little American packers right in front of yer eyes.

Have you looked in to the past ownership of the two plants that our mini me mutinational lap dogs Nillson Bros. supposedly bought. Is it that Johnny Machine Gun is preparing for an open border with another shifty move? 8)

 

[Kato]

You guys are in a bad situation up there because you allowed your packing industry to come under the control of the greedy US corporations that you are cussing.

Allowed? Allowed? :? We didn't allow anything. As I said before, when these big corporations want to do something, then they do it. And they have the blessing of your government behind them all the way. I remember watching a show about how the U.S. government put pressure on a number of Asian countries to accept American tobacco imports, even though they didn't want them. The government tied the tobacco to other trade issues, and forced it on them. Left them no choice. :?

Our government has dealt with this type of trade policy before, and knows full well what other ramifications come from trying to resist. Stop a beef plant, and you will lose lumber exports. Stop a chemical company, and you will lose something else. Face it, even though in size Canada is the second largest country in the world, our population is not much different than that of the state of California. This pretty much puts a limit on the resources available to deal with issues such as trade.

If we are to blame for allowing these corporations to take over our packing industries, then American cattlemen are just as much to blame for them taking over your own. OT, where were your politicians when the big packers started taking over the American meat processing industry? Where were they when your poultry industry turned into a feudal system with serfs and overlords? Where were they when your smaller packers started closing shop? Why didn't you stop it? Are you to blame for your situation?

Quit blaming us for something over which we had as much control as you have over your own situation. We'd be a lot farther ahead if we would quit bickering amongst ourselves, and presented a united front to these international pirates. By spending our days sniping back and forth between ourselves, we are just playing into their hands.

Divide and Conquer..... the principle has been around for thousands of years.

I agree with Randy. It's time for Canada to break loose from the noose..... :clap:

 

[Sandhusker]

The only thing they (Cargill and Johhny Machine Gun) lobbied for Sandy was the open border to boxed beef that "they" got within weeks. The rest of the stuff that you keep posting about the AMI etc. is all a smoke screen old boy. Of course the little packers want, and always have wanted the border open to survive. That is part of the picture that you and your Rcalf buds don't seem to see. Cargill and Tyson are using your blind approach to bury those little American packers right in front of yer eyes.

Have you looked in to the past ownership of the two plants that our mini me mutinational lap dogs Nillson Bros. supposedly bought. Is it that Johnny Machine Gun is preparing for an open border with another shifty move? 8)

Hell of a smoke screen; "The American Meat Institute argues in its lawsuit that the USDA ban on older Canadian cattle is "scientifically insupportable and is therefore arbitrary and capricious and contrary to law, in violation of the Administration Procedure Act." The Institute made clear that it is not challenging the new minimal risk rule, but is seeking an injunction against enforcement of the original May 2003 ban. "

 

[Draggin "N"]

Kato
You are absolutely right! We have been raped by corporate America, and sold out by our own government! While a lot of American producers are looking for the "Band-Wagon" to jump on, we are being lead down the chute to slaughter like the SHEEP so many cattlemen have turned into!
If we do not all wind up being a "company" serf.....it will be because of a MAJOR grass roots MOVE to fix the problem ourselves! It will not be fixed by our government, nor by us fighting about who has been the most stupid in the past. It will not be fixed by anything short of major co-operation of all cattlemen everywhere that do not want to be a company cow farmer!
We, as a people have forgotten that there is nothing wrong with BIG BUSINESS until it starts to feed on the very people that helped that business grow! NOW in America, there is no PRIDE in the company itself, it is all about the "stock holders" bottom line...That is all that makes any difference! Our country is being invaded from the south, but Big business keeps anything from being done about that..because it is Profitable for them. We are being bought by other countries, through big business, but nothing is being done because it is profitable to the "Stock Holders". We no longer consider the long range effect of anything to do with business, if it will make money NOW!
We have gone from a Nation of people that came here, because of supression, and taxes, and mistreatment by the wealthy and the Government......to a nation of SHEEP, that will allow our government and big business to do anything it wants, for fear we might be a little inconveinenced. History repeats itself, and it seems "here we go again" !

 

[Mike]

Great post Draggin N. My thoughts exactly.

 

[Sandhusker]

You guys are in a bad situation up there because you allowed your packing industry to come under the control of the greedy US corporations that you are cussing.

Kato, "Allowed? Allowed? :? We didn't allow anything. As I said before, when these big corporations want to do something, then they do it. And they have the blessing of your government behind them all the way. I remember watching a show about how the U.S. government put pressure on a number of Asian countries to accept American tobacco imports, even though they didn't want them. The government tied the tobacco to other trade issues, and forced it on them. Left them no choice. :? "

They're doing the same thing with Japan and Korea with untested beef. If the packers had the blessings of your government, that is who allowed it to happen and who you ought to be pointing your finger at.

Kato, "If we are to blame for allowing these corporations to take over our packing industries, then American cattlemen are just as much to blame for them taking over your own. "

You're right. Part of my disdain for NCBA

Kato, "Quit blaming us for something over which we had as much control as you have over your own situation. We'd be a lot farther ahead if we would quit bickering amongst ourselves, and presented a united front to these international pirates. By spending our days sniping back and forth between ourselves, we are just playing into their hands."

I agree. We agree on a lot more than we disagree on. I'll ask you to quit blaming R-CALF for your problems. R-CALF didn't create them, R-CALF exposed them.

And you mentioned that I didn't answer your final comment; I've joined a national organization that is addressing packer concentration at this very moment. I also have contacted my representation in Washington about the problem.

 

[Kato]

:agree:

Now what do we do about it? Litigate each other to death? Or work together against the real problem.

 

[Sandhusker]

:agree:

Now what do we do about it? Litigate each other to death? Or work together against the real problem.

First things first; identify the "real problem". I see it as big business calling the shots and government (both yours and ours) sold out to them. I think that's how you see it, too?

 

[Kato]

It's exactly how most everyone here sees it.

I also don't blame R-Calf for our problems. I never have. Because our problem is really corporate concentration.

My problem with R-Calf is that they seem to think they can solve the American side of the same problem by taking it out on us. :? We should be working together, not trying to slit each other's throats.

Before all this BSE nonsense, Canadian cattle producers used to look at the neverending trade troubles that plagued almost every segment of our agriculture, and think to ourselves that we were so fortunate that the cattle business was not like that. We really honestly thought we were involved in a North American cattle business. We were the poster boys for how trade is supposed to take place. Our prices were based on U.S. prices adjusted for the exchange rate. We locked in on the Chicago futures, just like you do. We had more in common with you than you know.

Little did we know that this was a totally one sided arrangement. How innocent and dumb we were to think that those south of the border agreed with us. :???:

Our problem with R-Calf can be compared to how a person feels when they find out that someone they had considered an ally was actually an enemy. I think all Canadian cattlemen are more than very aware of how the corporations deal with primary producers, and that we actually in some misguided way thought that American cattlemen would take our side, rather than take up tactics that would strengthen the chokehold by the corporations.

I guess we were wrong. I guess we gave our so called allies more credit for using good judgement than we should have. It's sad that together we could perhaps put together enough grassroots power to help cattlemen on both sides of the border, but I guess that's not going to happen.

Too bad.

 

[Sandhusker]

Kato, R-CALF is NOT trying to take it out on you and we're NOT trying to slit your throats. I've posted a quote from Leo McDonald stating that Canadian producers are NOT our enemies. Seems to me you folks up there are confusing pro-US with anti-Canada. Canada is the rallying cry, so to speak, because Canada is one of the things that the packers are using to hit US producers over the head with. It would be like if your neighbor brought in a bunch of bison that kept tearing down your fences. You would want them out of there, not because you were anti-bison, but because you were tired of the damage caused by them.

I don't think R-CALF has taken tactics that strengthen the packers - it's just the opposite. They can't stand us - we're a thorn in their side. A closed border HURTS them, that is why they have been lobbying and filing lawsuits from day on to open it! Take a look at the deal; they buy 10 times the cattle down here and your prices follow ours. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize efforts should be concentrated on lowering prices here - they kill two birds with one stone. Look at where their efforts are; trying to open the border and it all adds up!

I think the idea of trade of "how it is supposed to be" is just a dream. There are plenty of examples of countries not going by the "rules" today. Sometimes they don't follow because of greed, sometimes they don't because there's no allowance for common sense in the agreements - some people actually have the nerve to believe that safety is more important than making a buck.

That "North American beef industry" concept is one invented by the packers to maximize their profits. It sure sounds good up front, but it's just giving them the keys to the house to do what they will, and that's make as much money as they can with little regard for anything else. It guarantees you will be depentant on us and they will always have a handy tool to pressure prices down here.

I agree with you that corporate concentration is the problem. I know Padre Roberts will disagree with me on this, but I think we both need to start with our respective governments. We've got to get Washington and Ottawa out of the wallets of the AMI. I look at the rediculousness of the Creekstone deal and that shows me that producers will never be able to get anything off the ground that the AMI would see as threatening to their empire - and we need to do more than threaten it, we need to dismantle it. I think we need to be in our lawmaker's ears so loud and so often that they decide the payoffs aren't worth the trouble we're giving them.

 

[Kato]

He can say Canadian cattle producers are not the enemies all he likes, but his actions speak differently. The end result is the same.

If Canadian producers are not the enemies, then why are we the focus of all the lawsuits? Why the Canadian border? Why not Mexico? Or Argentina? We are a diversion to keep the loudest noisemakers busy while the real damage is done.

A closed border has not hurt the packers. They've been plundering up here with no restrictions ever since it closed. They can underpay for our cattle, and ship the boxes to you and sell it for the same price as the beef they process in the States. How is that hurting them? It's just adding valuable dollars to every animal they process in this country. This is the handy tool they are using to put pressure on prices.

The North American beef industry is not the invention of anyone. It is the result of the evolution brought about by Canadian agriculture doing what it had to in order to survive. We've had to be pretty quick on our feet just to stay in business, and it's usually because we are reacting to something that has been brought on by forces outside our borders.

As well, what does R-Calf hope to accomplish by stopping Canadian cattle?

The OIE has given Canada and the U.S. an identical risk rating regarding BSE. Therefore, any reason they put forth to use against Canadian cattle coming into the U.S. is the exact reason that will be used by the likes of Korea and Japan against U.S. beef. If beef from a minimal risk country like Canada is unsafe for import into the U.S., that only adds credence to beef from the U.S. being safe to export to Japan or Korea.

The argument that Canadian cattle are endangering the American herd just states that Americans have no faith in their processing protocols and feed ban. How is that helping American producers? Sounds more like sowing the seeds of doubt in a consumer base that is already very leery of the safety of the food supply.

The world says our beef and cattle are the same. How the U.S. handles imports of Canadian beef and cattle will set the precedent for how the rest of the world handles imports of American beef and cattle. It seems easy in your country to ignore world opinion and live safe and sound behind your walls, but the world is out there, and whether you like it or not, world opinon counts.

I'm sure trade officials in Asia are watching what takes place here with great interest.

 

[Sandhusker]

He can say Canadian cattle producers are not the enemies all he likes, but his actions speak differently. The end result is the same.

Once again, you're confusing pro-USA with anti-Canada.

If Canadian producers are not the enemies, then why are we the focus of all the lawsuits? Why the Canadian border? Why not Mexico? Or Argentina? We are a diversion to keep the loudest noisemakers busy while the real damage is done.

When the USDA's zero tolerance policy was established, the USDA said it was science based and what was needed to protect our herd. They followed that policy 22 consecutive times. All of a sudden they reversed it at the bidding if the big packers when country #23 was found. Canada was that country. If the USDA had pulled that crap with Mexico or Argentina, then those countries would be the focal point of R-CALF's actions.

A closed border has not hurt the packers. They've been plundering up here with no restrictions ever since it closed. They can underpay for our cattle, and ship the boxes to you and sell it for the same price as the beef they process in the States. How is that hurting them? It's just adding valuable dollars to every animal they process in this country. This is the handy tool they are using to put pressure on prices.

Then why do they want it open so damn bad? Sure, they're cutting their losses a bit by raping you guys, but they're losing real money down here. It's like making a dime/head extra on 100 head or making a nickel/head more on 1000 head. Which scenario gives you the most jingle in your pocket?

The North American beef industry is not the invention of anyone. It is the result of the evolution brought about by Canadian agriculture doing what it had to in order to survive. We've had to be pretty quick on our feet just to stay in business, and it's usually because we are reacting to something that has been brought on by forces outside our borders.

You had to turn your packing industry over to foreigners to stay in business? I don't buy that.

As well, what does R-Calf hope to accomplish by stopping Canadian cattle?

We hope to put the kabosh on this instance of the USDA sacrificing producers for the packers and break the cycle. If the USDA wants to open the border to Canadian cattle, they need to do it right, not arbitrarily and without regard to established policy. They need to tell us what science has changed since 1997 or why they were wrong then. They clearly did this just for the packers, and that nonsense has got to stop yesterday.

The OIE has given Canada and the U.S. an identical risk rating regarding BSE. Therefore, any reason they put forth to use against Canadian cattle coming into the U.S. is the exact reason that will be used by the likes of Korea and Japan against U.S. beef. If beef from a minimal risk country like Canada is unsafe for import into the U.S., that only adds credence to beef from the U.S. being safe to export to Japan or Korea.

The OIE USED to have a requirement concerning a working feed ban, no positives for 7 years and so on.... The OIE has already stated that Japan and Korea should be taking our beef and they're already ignoring them. It's obvious Japan and Korea aren't taking the OIE as an institution with their best interests at heart. Good for them.

The argument that Canadian cattle are endangering the American herd just states that Americans have no faith in their processing protocols and feed ban. How is that helping American producers? Sounds more like sowing the seeds of doubt in a consumer base that is already very leery of the safety of the food supply.

You're right, we don't have faith in our processing protocols, nor should we. We've got loopholes in our feedban that are no secret. The way things are now, BSE can just take a detour through chickens or hogs.

The world says our beef and cattle are the same. How the U.S. handles imports of Canadian beef and cattle will set the precedent for how the rest of the world handles imports of American beef and cattle. It seems easy in your country to ignore world opinion and live safe and sound behind your walls, but the world is out there, and whether you like it or not, world opinon counts. I'm sure trade officials in Asia are watching what takes place here with great interest

I disagree. The OIE says our beef and cattle are the same. By their actions, you can see what Japan thinks of the OIE. We were told the same dang thing back in 2003 - that we would get treated by Japan as we treated you. 4 years later, it still hasn't happened.

If we're going to get out of this mess, US producers need to get Washington doing what we need, not what the packers want and we need to get the USDA doing their job, which is to tell the packers how to do their business and not visa versa. Canada needs to pick a winner - Canadians. You need to get the CFIA off the USDA's teat and get some Canadian producer owned packers built and shipping product to Japan, Korea, China, Russia, the EU, etc....
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