U.S. RANCHERS BAN ON CA BEEF WINS APPEAL

[Kato]

Frankly I don't care if it's pro-American or anti-Canadian. No matter how he likes to candy coat it, the end result is that we still get kicked.

When the USDA's zero tolerance policy was established, the USDA said it was science based and what was needed to protect our herd. They followed that policy 22 consecutive times. All of a sudden they reversed it at the bidding if the big packers when country #23 was found. Canada was that country. If the USDA had pulled that crap with Mexico or Argentina, then those countries would be the focal point of R-CALF's actions

.

Maybe they knew something no one else was willing to acknowledge? Perhaps they had the same suspicion that you also have BSE. As for pulling crap with Argentina, how about their foot and mouth status? That's a bigger danger than BSE ever will be. :shock: :shock:

You had to turn your packing industry over to foreigners to stay in business? I don't buy that

We didn't turn over anything. Any more than you turned over your packing industry to the big corporations.

We hope to put the kabosh on this instance of the USDA sacrificing producers for the packers and break the cycle. If the USDA wants to open the border to Canadian cattle, they need to do it right, not arbitrarily and without regard to established policy. They need to tell us what science has changed since 1997 or why they were wrong then. They clearly did this just for the packers, and that nonsense has got to stop yesterday

.

I guess we can be sacrificed instead eh? As for doing it right, the right thing to do is to deal with Canada as you want to be dealt with by other countries. Set the precedent so this nonsense doesn't have to happen again. Abide by the international guidelines. This gives credibility to your arguments when trying to open up trade in countries like Japan and Korea etc.. Why should they listen to reason about opening trade up to more American beef, when you won't open up to Canadian, which is of equal risk?

The OIE USED to have a requirement concerning a working feed ban, no positives for 7 years and so on.... The OIE has already stated that Japan and Korea should be taking our beef and they're already ignoring them. It's obvious Japan and Korea aren't taking the OIE as an institution with their best interests at heart.

Maybe Japan and Korea are ignoring the OIE because they are waiting to see if you do too? Once they open up, they'll have a hard time closing again.

Good for them.

So does that mean you aren't interested in exporting beef? Here's a quote from a recent trade report.

Canadian imports of beef and veal from the United States soared to a record $414 million in 2006 reflecting strong demand from Canada's foodservice sector, lower Canadian beef production, and lower Canadian imports of offshore beef.

BTW. This is an example of the North American beef market at work. Perhaps we should put an end to these American imports too. Especially since your feed ban has so many holes in it, and you have no faith in it yourselves. :wink:

As for helping ourselves, we are exporting to Japan and a lot of other countries. It's just going to take time. As well, just like you, we also have to get out from under the thumbs of the big packers, but that will also take time. It would also be a lot easier to accomplish if we had American cattlemen as allies rather than adversaries.

I think that is the crux of our problem with R-Calf. The very people who understand our problems and live with the same ones, are the ones who insist on using us as pawns in their effort to find a solution. We should be allies, not adversaries.

 

[Ben Roberts]

Sandhusker, in the real world, R-Calf is a protectionist organization that has caused a great amount of economic damage to the Canadian cattle producers. At the same time ( i'm sure without knowledge in the beginning) has created a great economic plus for the packers. Start your research at the beginning of all of this issue. Don't listen to what anyone else tells you (not even me) and let us know what conclusion you come up with. But, it's important that you start from the beginning.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Ben Roberts]

Sandhusker, If every cow/calf producer would sell their ranchers and farms next Monday, take the money they have left over after paying off their debt (if there is any) and load that money in a 53' Wilson cattle pot, along with a tanker load of good whiskey and a stable full of prostitutes (male & female), truck all of this to Washington DC, we could have any legislation passed we ask for. But, what would we do, the next year.

It's time we stood up, and take back the control of our industry, from the multi-national corporations and the government that they have in their pockets.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Sandhusker]

Kato, "Frankly I don't care if it's pro-American or anti-Canadian. No matter how he likes to candy coat it, the end result is that we still get kicked."

So US producers are just supposed to bend over and get kicked by the AMI/USDA so you aren't injured? That's what you're saying.

Kato, "Maybe they knew something no one else was willing to acknowledge? Perhaps they had the same suspicion that you also have BSE."

In order to believe that, you would also have to believe that they came to that conclusion between countries #21 & 22, otherwise the policy would of been changed before Canada became #23. It was clearly packer profits, Kato. None of the previous border closures effected the packers hardly at all. Canada cost them real money.

Kato, "As for pulling crap with Argentina, how about their foot and mouth status? That's a bigger danger than BSE ever will be."

You're right, it is a bunch of crap. If you'll notice, R-CALF has addressed that as well.

Kato, "I guess we can be sacrificed instead eh? As for doing it right, the right thing to do is to deal with Canada as you want to be dealt with by other countries. Set the precedent so this nonsense doesn't have to happen again. Abide by the international guidelines. This gives credibility to your arguments when trying to open up trade in countries like Japan and Korea etc.. Why should they listen to reason about opening trade up to more American beef, when you won't open up to Canadian, which is of equal risk?"

Japan and Korea have been doing what is in their best interests to do, as they should - as we should. They aren't abiding by the "international guidelines" because those guidelines have trade as a priority and they are smart enough to recognize some things are more important than the holy grail of "trade". Any unbiased person can clearly see they are flawed as well. There USED to be a big importance on a feed ban. There USED to be requirements of no cases within a time period. The "international guidelines" got watered down by those who would profit from it. That shows those guidelines ain't much.

Kato, "Maybe Japan and Korea are ignoring the OIE because they are waiting to see if you do too? Once they open up, they'll have a hard time closing again. "

I'd say it's a better bet that Japan and Korea can see thru the smoke and recognize the OIE doesn't have their best interests in mind.

Kato, "So does that mean you aren't interested in exporting beef?"

I didn't say, insinuate or even hint that.

Kato, "BTW. This is an example of the North American beef market at work. Perhaps we should put an end to these American imports too. Especially since your feed ban has so many holes in it, and you have no faith in it yourselves."

What's the net after you figure what we took from you? If you think our feed ban doesn't have holes, let's hear it.

Kato, " It would also be a lot easier to accomplish if we had American cattlemen as allies rather than adversaries."

Again, pro-US is not the same as anti-Canada and I don't think US producers should take a shot to protect Canada.

Kato, "I think that is the crux of our problem with R-Calf. The very people who understand our problems and live with the same ones, are the ones who insist on using us as pawns in their effort to find a solution. We should be allies, not adversaries."

We didn't choose to use you as pawns. The USDA/AMI chose the battlefield.

 

[Sandhusker]

Sandhusker, in the real world, R-Calf is a protectionist organization that has caused a great amount of economic damage to the Canadian cattle producers. At the same time ( i'm sure without knowledge in the beginning) has created a great economic plus for the packers. Start your research at the beginning of all of this issue. Don't listen to what anyone else tells you (not even me) and let us know what conclusion you come up with. But, it's important that you start from the beginning.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

I'm not listening to anybody else, Ben. I just became a member of R-CALF a couple of years ago after listening to both sides from the beginning. The choice seemed obvious - it wasn't even close.

I don't believe that, in the big picture, R-CALF has helped the packers. I think their actions of fighting tooth and nail R-CALF's positions tell another story.

How can an outfit be protectionist when they have publicly embraced certain free trade agreements?

 

[bse-tester]

ooops!

 

[bse-tester]

Kato wrote:

We get to see Walmart, UPS, Purolator, and Shell Oil trucks every time we get on the road. Then we can choose between eating at Applebees, Montana's, Burger King, McDonalds, or Wendy's. Then we go to the Safeway store and buy some Heinz ketchup, Kelloggs cornflakes, California grapes, or Florida oranges, while driving in our Ford or Chev vehicles full of Esso gas. On vacation we can stay at the Holiday Inn, or maybe the Comfort Inn for a change. Which we can pay for with our American Express cards, before settling down to watch the Tonight Show and Dateline. All without leaving Canada.

You almost forgot television programing!

Kato, if you ban that too we will be stuck with reruns of "Popcorn Playhouse or The Red Green Show." The very thought of having old sing-a-longs around a piano from the Maritimes is waaaay past scary, it is downright freaky!!!! Heck, we can all sit around the radio and listen to good old Farley Mowat read his stories over and over and over again!!!! It is bad enough that Canadians have to endure the farcical manner in which our government handles issues like BSE, language rights, native rights, settling land claims and even shamefully providing inadequate funding in order to bury our war dead, but now, according to your way of thinking, we also have to worry about what the influence of the USA is having upon us and our great land?

Being Canadian is now becoming something of a task when we have a government that first dictates what constitutes being Canadian actually is and then rams Canadian content down our throats because that is the way they see it.

Kato, think of it as being able to enjoy life a little better than if the entire country was reduced to being run as if shut-in behind a huge and high wall!!! Personally, I like my Levi's. I love the idea of watching decent television and having access to good quality clothing and food products. Can you imagine the supply if all we had was produced here in this country under the all-seeing care of those who feel they know what is best for lil' ol' you and me??? Man, we would be heading south to seek our fortune in a real hurry.

At least the good old USA had the guts and the unyielding resolve to stand up to the British and throw their sorry butts back across the pond!! And if that wasn't enough, a good number of trusted and highly respected people got together and signed a resolve that to this day provides that every single citizen of the entire USA is equal to the next regardless of their situation, color, creed or religious or ethnic background.

We cannot say the same can we Kato?

Unless we say it in one or the other official languages without offending those who may object or feel that their rights supercede those of other Canadians (Language Laws in Quebec)!!! Or was sending Pierre Elliott Trudeau to beg the royal inbreds in England to allow us to have our own Constitution our way of rebelling against the rulers of this land we call home?We can't even agree on how to treat each other if we first see each other as either French or English!!!!

Yes, I am Canadian, and have lived here in Alberta for almost 40 years. You want to see what really screwing up a country is all about, go to the UK and then when you come back to Canada, you will see just how it Canada is beginning to walk the same path here as the Brits began to walk down in the last 30 years or so. I lived there for 21 years so I think I can speak on it.

Kato, please do not get me wrong here. I will defend with my life this great country of ours and personally take offence with those who try to harm it in any way. But we must understand who we are first and foremost. We are, sadly, a nation with more than one identity and that I find troubling. Being a meltingpot is not enough, we must become more than we are. More than the sum of the total. We must become a nation unto ourselves and not divided by language or nationalities as we are.

Sure we buy our Kelloggs Cornflakes from the US-owned corporations but we also force them to put two languages on the boxes. What is with that? Why not Chinese or German? Heck, why not Cree or Huron or Mohawk? Do these Canadians not deserve equality like the others two factions??

Perhaps we have a lot of growing up to do yet and then perhaps we can gather a group of respected and highly admired citizens together and they too can write a resolve that mirrors that of the the USA.

"We the people, of Canada, a nation united and whole under one flag......etc etc."

Sorry folks, I have drifted away from the general content of this board and this discussion. I apologize.

 

[Anonymous]

Kato-- I agree that the change of the rules (lessening the restrictions) for Argentine beef is a very serious matter-- and it could/will greatly effect Canada as this same beef from a FMD country, once in the US, can be relabeled with the USDA stamp and go anywhere thru NAFTA as a US product-- but I have one question? Did any Canadian cattle organization or any Canadian producer voice or make a written comment in opposition to it while the USDA was receiving comments :???:

I never saw any, when I was looking thru them- It appears as tho Canada is so used to kissing the Royalty Rear that the Canadian cattlemen just now bow down to the Corporate Monarchy....

Look what years of bowing down has got you-- to a point where you lost almost all identity as a country and all identity as for your product (cattle and beef)-- and have a country that lives/survives within/by another countries footsteps/shadow and a beef industry that rides on the hind teat of the US industry- and grovel up what the multinationals allow you to, as long as it best fits their purposes...

But no one in Canada will stand up and challenge this- just happy to have the US cattlemans shirttails to ride on- even tho they can use you/Canadian product thru differences in laws and rules to negatively impact the US cattlemans market....You had a group called Big C that actually asked questions rather than kiss rear- but Canadians wouldn't stand behind them...And now Canadians can't stand the fact that the US cattle producer has groups (R-CALF, USCA) that actually question and challenge the status quo....

 

[PORKER]

.You had a group called Big C that actually asked questions rather than kiss rear- but Canadians wouldn't stand behind them...

 

[flounder]

STANLEY PRUSINER NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER ON THE PRION

US AG SEC AND LAYCRAFT

"nothing matters, except beef from canada under 30 months bones beef product, that's ALL THAT MATTERS!"



http://maddeer.org/video/embedded/08snip.ram



TSS

 

[Ben Roberts]

Sandhusker, R-Calf talks out of both sides of their mouth on most issues. In the (big picture) R-Calf has done nothing but help the packers, because of their lack of knowledge, in the beginning. Please tell me, what free trade agreements R-Calf have publicly embraced?

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Sandhusker]

Sandhusker, R-Calf talks out of both sides of their mouth on most issues. In the (big picture) R-Calf has done nothing but help the packers, because of their lack of knowledge, in the beginning. Please tell me, what free trade agreements R-Calf have publicly embraced?

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings.asp?formmode=view&id=4978 - 27k

I heartily disagree with your comment about R-CALF talking out of both sides of their mouth. You have an example or two?

I also don't understand how R-CALF has helped the packers considering those same packers have been on the opposite side every battle R-CALF has been in. If we're helping them, why are they fighting us?

 

[rkaiser]

How on earth can you still ask how the packers have gained by the closed border Sandhusker. Wait a minute, there have been losses. Losses to the ones down the ladder from Cargill and Tyson that is. Or do you want to take old Scotty's stand and say that Tyson lost money due to the closed border as well? I hate to resort back to personal attacks to try to get a point across Sandhusker - you must understand mustn't you? Have you been watching any of the goings on on the north side of the 49th? Good grief man, Cargill and Tyson have taken control of the beef and soon the cattle industry because of BSEconomics. You and good old Oldtimer keep saying that Canadian producers let them do it - well for goodness sakes - Rcalf helped them do it. Get off the border thing - you are wrong in saying that it is helping American producers and you are wrong in saying that it hurt the packers, unless you are talking of any competition for the two packers that you, my friend, should fear the most.