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Unruley Border

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Heel Fly

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Okay so I can train a horse, potty train two kids and my hubby does dishes but my 6mo border keeps running from me. Now before anyone says it YES I did loose my temper once. Heres what happened. I called her to come and she looked back at me and took off, well I had to track her until l finally got a hold of her collar, she growled at me so I grabbed her neck and turned her to her back with my hand firmly around her throat. Not rough at all but just enough so she knew I was still top dog. Well things just get worse from there. I had to track her down again and she still takes off when I call her. I realize that she is a pup but she is really defient. Anyone have any sound advice on what I should do. She is an angel on the line but when I let her off shes gooone. I am not going to keep her on a line, I need to fix this. SO HELP.....
 
I had an australian shepard like that he never was worth a hoot so I put him out of my misery.
 
Now I know that I'm going to get ripped for this,but here goes.I've trained Border Collie for about 10 yrs,don't make me a trainer,but know a little bout them.I had one of my best males that would do just that.The best and quickest fix was a training collar.Use it as a tool not as revenge.Every time you get her out put it on. It is like insurance,if you need it its worth every penny spent,if not its still there just in case.the reason to put it on her every time is that she will get collar smart just like the line.These are the smartest dog on the planet and not to think that they don't know when a line or a collar is on is just stupid.If you don't have a collar,then get a 50' cloths line and keep it on her.She is smart and if you can curve that into working hten you will have an unbeatable dog,Best of luck.
 
That very acute brain of hers processed information and came up with a wrong and confusing answer. Now shes too nervous to reprocess added information.
You need to help her out.

The rope is the tool- but I'll bet you are useing it wrong.
The rope is only used to contain the dog in a workable area(ie keep it from avoiding lessons) .Not to make the dog do things-- otherwise the lessons won't carry over to off leash.

Number two-- just like with kids everytime you loose your cool you are going backwards. Don't fight with the dog- out persit it and out think it.

Some useful lessons--

Heel- Put the dog on the rope(I use a long 16ft) give the dog about three ft of loose leash(I find it works best to hold the line behind my back).
Walk-- the dog is not allowed to go past your leg(which means it can't pull either) and its not allowed to cross in front of you.
If the dog goes past you stop and back up and keep backing up till the dog goes past you the other way. Then go foreward over and over and over.
If the dog tries to cross in front of you to the other side just steer it back with your foot(NOT kick it) .
It takes time -but you are teaching the dog to think and read your body language.
Don't Pull on the rope to put the dog where you want it-- Make the dog have a reason to choose to go where you want it.

Recall--- Have the dog in a contained area(house fence or long rope). Call the dog. If it doesn't come or runs away. Calmly walk to you get to it. Make it regret not coming(that can be anywhere from wagging your finger at it to shaking it by the neck--- need to go only as far as you need to to make an impact-- and you are not trying to scare the **** out of it- just make it think))
Then leave the dog there(or run it off if it tries to follow you) and go back where you called it. call again. Do it over and over
If the dog even thinks about coming talk real nice and reassure it that thats the right choice.

Don't even bother to start- unless you are going to back it up everytime. Nothing more confusing to a dog than insist one time- and care less latter.

If the dog is really nervous-- you may need to just tie it to you on a short leash and just have it follow you for hours till it decompresses before you start trying to teach it anything.
 
Wow Howdy you have great advice and thanks to the others I really appreciate it and will take all that I can get. I will be working with her here shortly and will use what I have learned. Any more good ideas on any area of dog training are SO welcome.
 
There are alot of "what ifs" that will come up.

Always go back to thinking-- what can I do to make her wrong choices uncomfortable and her right choices feel good.
Then do everything you can to help her narrow her choices down- so she can find the right choice more clearly.

And always think-- Am I trying to teach the dog what to do or what not to do?
With a Working Border Collie the best way to train is to show the dog what not to do- and leave it to them to find what it is you want them to do--
Its a fine line but very important especially when you get into stockwork..

Training a Working border Collie is all about helping the dog with making "choices" not obedience tricks. The choices make a working bond- the "tricks" don't.

Oh yeah-- on the heeling -- don't worry about pulls to the side or back.
Just keep walking(which means you'll be pulling them along) they will quit that all on their own eventually.
And be careful about your emotions-- this is very deadpan work.No anger or frustration and no praise. The reward isn't praise its that it feels good and you keep walking. Some dogs just get stupid if you praise them and then they are wrong again and get confused.. You can add praise latter after they figure it out and you are fine tuning it. And if the dog feels anger or frustration they go into overdrive trying to find answers to please you and end up a nervous wreck.

Some dogs are so oblivious that you are trying something new that they need a wake up call just to make them aware something is going on. usually hitting your leg with a hat as they go past your leg is enough to clue them in. Some need the hat to meet their head :)
But thats a one or two time thing- don't use it as your training tool.

Then there are variations-- as they go by (if they keep trying to rush you) just turn 180 and walk the other way. They'll soon figure they aren't getting anywhere without you- and relax ans let you lead.
 
I had a geneticly shy Pyreneese--most difficult dog I'v ever tried to do anything with---she died at 11 years,still afraid of most every human on the planet..
 
I got a male BC pup that we picked up when he was about 4 months old and had alot of problems with him doing what it sounds like your pup is doing. Not sure what had caused it, but he did and still does act nervous when things don't seem right with his way of thinking.

The first thing is, never get mad at the pup, then tell him to come. It doesn't take BC's very long to figure something out. Second, some of these dogs you have to be real careful how you reprimand them.

When I am getting manners on my pups, and they get out of hand or don't want to listen, I will get them by the collar and press them down on their side. Not forcefully, and not on their back as if they are giving in. And then if they want to try and run away from you, go catch 'em and do it again. Work on sit and down and all the other manner commands.

I have only been breeding BC's for about four years, but everyone I talk to in the trial ring, breeding business, etc, is that you have to teach the pup manners and to like you.

The male I referenced at the beginning of my post is an excellent working dog and is great to be around, but if he has the slightest sense he's done wrong, he's takes off and is real reluctant to come back, but he does and you sort of have to act like nothing happened and go on. It sounds to me that your pup might be at the point that she thinks she is in trouble when you call her. So you just need to be patient and work with her to show her that she can trust you.

And do put her on a line and make her heel and stay with you. It's not going to hurt her one bit to be on a line and learn its okay to be with you. Put her on a line, make her sit, walk away with the rope in your hand, stop and call her to you. If she doesn't, wait a few seconds, say her name and tug the rope a little bit. She'll figure it out after a bit. Just be patient.

I love talking working dogs, training, everything about cattle working BC's. Everybody feel free to PM me or email and maybe we can all bounce ideas off each other.
 
My old red Aussie would look like he was just gonna start crying when I'd have a disagreement with him. I never raised my voice...I talked to him like an adult human and reason things out.

It got to where I didn't have to say a thing when he'd screw up....he KNEW all by himself and acted so sorry about it. I never scolded him once....just gave him ' the look' and that seemed to be enough!
 
One thing..If they come to you,they are a GOOD DOG..I don't care what they did over there, if they come to you they are good..you can figgure out how to correct what they did over there later..just say "come,good dog"for prase..
 

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