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US Producers Concerned Over Canadian Beef

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
  • Start date Start date
Sandhusker said:
Tam, "1. Who in the US was granted the DISCRETION to decide the arbitrary, in the AHPA in 2002 by the US Congress? the USDA or a Federal Court judge that uses incorrect legal standards?"

The discretion to decide the arbitrary? That makes no sense. Do I need to read any further?
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Nice diversion but it is not going to get you out of answering the question who was given the power by Congress in the 2002 AHPA to make the decisions on how low is low? The USDA or A federal Court Judge that uses incorrect legal standards to grant unwarrented injunctions to a Protectionist bunch of beef producers that are scare to compete so that they turn to the courts time after time to stop trade. Answer the question and stop delaying.
 
The USDA is to set the standards. What you don't understand is that they are still accountable to the public. They can't be arbitrary.
 
Where did the USDA state that opening the border to Canada would allow entry of BSE positive cases?


~SH~
 
Sandhusker said:
The USDA is to set the standards. What you don't understand is that they are still accountable to the public. They can't be arbitrary.
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The US Congress gave the USDA the power to set the standards using their discretion. AND Yes, they are accountable to the whole US public that is why they have comment periods which gives the whole US public a chance to comment. That is also why the USDA takes the time to review all the comments before they proceed with their rulings. The question is who named R-CALF as the spokesmen of the whole US Public? Is the USDA really being arbitrary if they are supported by a much larger part of the industry that R-CALF thinks they have the right to speak for?
 
Arbitrary is arbitrary. You don't have to be a majority of any group or even a group at all to the the government to task. One person can do it.
 
If the USDA is wrong and the 9th circuit is wrong, where is the outrage from the public and consumer groups besides Carol Tucker Foreman, R-CULT's spur of the moment ally whose agenda was to get beef off the school lunch menu??? The outrage doesn't exist other than from R-CULT import blamers who want to stop Canadian imports because they don't understand global markets. Any consumer could quickly see past R-CULT's isolationist agenda. Can you imagine the laughter if they could hear R-CULT's "USDA doesn't care about food safety" one minute and Leo's "We have the safest beef in the world due to our firewalls" speech???

When you lie and deceive like R-CULT does, there is no way to keep your stories straight. My pointing that out is why I am hated by the R-CULTers.


Sandcheska, Where did the USDA state that opening the border to Canada would allow entry of BSE positive cases?


~SH~
 
We don't hate you, SH, we pity you as we would anybody who's ego is 10 times the size of their IQ.

If you think the Ninth was correct, you can try to explain how their use of "low" isn't arbitrary. Tam tried and finally decided it was. Now she thinks the government has the right to be arbitrary.

If I bring something where the USDA is acknowedging they will be importing BSE positive animals under the new rule, what will you do? As it is their mandate to keep disease out of the country, will you finally admit they are out of line?
 
Sandcheska, Where did the USDA state that opening the border to Canada would allow entry of BSE positive cases?


~SH~
 
~SH~ said:
Sandcheska, Where did the USDA state that opening the border to Canada would allow entry of BSE positive cases?


~SH~
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You're acting like a punk again. Rein yourself in, boy. You get what you give.
 
Oh how can I divert thee....
Let me count the ways.....

Sandcheska,

"Where did the USDA state that opening the border to Canada would allow entry of BSE positive cases?


String back through this thread folks and see how Little Sandcheska can slither and slime his way around committing to a position. As long as he can make his meaningless little statements and divert questions, he'll have a home at ranchers.net. I'm glad you readers can see his diversionary tactics first hand and why I have such a low tolerance for guys like him.


~SH~
 
Sandhusker said:
Arbitrary is arbitrary. You don't have to be a majority of any group or even a group at all to the the government to task. One person can do it.
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WHO NAMES R-CALF LORD AND MASTER OF THE US PUBLIC, GIVING THEM THE RIGHT TO SPEAK FOR THE WHOLE US PUBLIC?

If Oldtimer thinks the US Government should be looking into something, I suggest they look into how one very small loud month spoiled brat of a beef organization with protectionist tendencies, can use the US federal court system to stop international trade when the big bad USDA doesn't respond to their every demand leaving the majority that do supports them hanging out to dry. How can a US government agency honestly negotiate deals with foreign governments when all it takes is one misfit bunch of malcontents with a sympathetic, heavy on the pathetic, Federal court judge that uses incorrect legal standards to stop everything in its tracks for months. The US government is going to quickly become the laughing stock of the global market if they can't carry out negotiated deals without the threat of court actions from morons like R-CALF.
Gee Sandhusker do you want more of my own thoughts heres some

do you know why the US beef industry is like a dog?
Let me explain why.

First you have the head, or the USDA, although it takes its cues from the master or in this case the public, it still is in charge of making the decisions about exactly how the dog works.
Next comes the body or the majority of the US Beef industry which does the actual work but still looks to the head to guide it safely through its daily chores.
Third you have the tail, a somewhat useless piece of hair that hangs on the back of the body and is sometimes filled with crap and since the R-CALF membership is a small part of the industry that doesn't seem to want to be a part of the whole body we'll call them the tail.
And last by certainly not least you have what is directly below the tail which in this case is the R-CALF leadership as they are the one filling the tail with crap.
See what I mean
Add to that the old saying "this is like the tail wagging the dog" seem to fit R-CALFs idea that they can tell the USDA and the rest of the US beef industry what to do.
Now my fondest wish is that, that dog could be an Australia Shepard. Why you may ask well first the Aussie is very well mannered that works well with cattle and generally gets along with others and if born with a tail, the breeder Docks it at birth, so there isn't one constantly flip flopping causing annoyance to everyone around them. Plus with no tail there isn't be anything to fling what the low part spews.


Gee I stepped out of my comfort zone and look what happened :wink:
 
Now you're getting totally ridiculous, Tam. Nobody has to appoint R-CALF or anybody else to anything. The government is supposed to be accountable to the public and R-CALF is part of the pubic. If the government is out of line, is the right, and some would even claim the duty of citizens to apply the reins.

The USDA won't have any problems with the courts or making trade agreements if they do their job correctly, and part of doing their job correctly is being accountable. Using arbitrary values is not being accountable, it's BSing.

If your Dr. told you a potential side effect of a medicine he was prescribing for you was excessive facial hair and continual flatulence, but it was only a low possibility, would you just buy his notion of "low"? Unless you've always wanted a beard and thought farting all the time was cool, I bet you'd ask for a little more information on "low" before you went to the pharmacy. You might even decline those meds. after getting the odds. R-CALF has witnessed cattle industries in other countries get competely blasted by BSE, so naturally, we're not comfortable with accepting an arbitrary "low" as a probability that we'll get turned upside down as others have already. Since you've agreed with me, R-CALF, and Judge Cebull that the USDA was arbitrary, I don't understand why you're still argueing.
 
Sandhusker said:
Now you're getting totally ridiculous, Tam. Nobody has to appoint R-CALF or anybody else to anything. The government is supposed to be accountable to the public and R-CALF is part of the pubic. If the government is out of line, is the right, and some would even claim the duty of citizens to apply the reins.

The USDA won't have any problems with the courts or making trade agreements if they do their job correctly, and part of doing their job correctly is being accountable. Using arbitrary values is not being accountable, it's BSing.

If your Dr. told you a potential side effect of a medicine he was prescribing for you was excessive facial hair and continual flatulence, but it was only a low possibility, would you just buy his notion of "low"? Unless you've always wanted a beard and thought farting all the time was cool, I bet you'd ask for a little more information on "low" before you went to the pharmacy. You might even decline those meds. after getting the odds. R-CALF has witnessed cattle industries in other countries get competely blasted by BSE, so naturally, we're not comfortable with accepting an arbitrary "low" as a probability that we'll get turned upside down as others have already. Since you've agreed with me, R-CALF, and Judge Cebull that the USDA was arbitrary, I don't understand why you're still argueing.
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Sandhusker that is why they have comment periods to give the gerenal public the right to COMMENT. Now if the majority of that General public agrees with the government and one small part of that general public gets their nose off of joint is it right to hold the majority hostage until that one small part realized they are not the self appointed rulers of the whole country? R-CALF is acting like a spoiled child that didn't get his way. If they can't have it they way and only their way then NOBODY GETS IT.

According to 40 judges they did their job Sandhusker it was just one lone judge using incorrect legal standards that said they didn't and look what happen to him. :roll:

Sandhusker have you ever listen to the ads on TV about the side affects of some of these drug that the docters prescribe on a daily basis. Do you think that they would ever sell any of those drugs if the consumers demanded absolutely NO SIDE AFFECTS. No most consumers would take the word of the docter that the research has been done and the beneifits far out weigh the risk. Sure there are a few like R-CALF that would rather die of the illness as to ever chance that the Docter might know more than they do, but the MAJORITY would take the drug as prescribed and not live on what ifs and how low is low.

Sandhusker why should international trade be decided on the fact that a VERY SMALL part of one sector of a very large industry thinks the governing agency is being arbitrary when the rest of the very large industry disagrees with that VERY SMALL MOUTHY PART? What ever happen to majority wins in the US? Has the US beef industry suddenly became a dictatorship with R-CALF as the head party? Maybe you better warn Chuckles what happens to the leader of a dictating party when the majority gets tried of being pushed around. (Hint Saddam and Bin Ladan one was hung and the other is hiding in a cave somewhere so he doesn't get his head shot off) :wink: Is that why Leo bailed when he did? :shock:

Did you ever read the Nafta Report on Agriculture. One of the things I found very true was about how harrassment lawsuits do happen and it's to bad that those filing those suits aren't held accountable for the TOTAL cost of all parties involved when that law suit fails. Maybe then R-CALF the very group the paper was referring to would stop harrassing an other wise smooth running industry.

And Sandhusker your Comment about
R-CALF has witnessed cattle industries in other countries get competely blasted by BSE, so naturally, we're not comfortable with accepting an arbitrary "low" as a probability that we'll get turned upside down as others have already.
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Can you PLEASE STOP ACTING LIKE THE US HASN"T GOT BSE IN THEIR NATIVE HERD IT IS GETTING SICKENING!!!!!!!If your Trading partners are going to turn you up side down it will be for your lack of ability to trace your native cases back to where they were born or your many other shortcomings or maybe just the fact you have a Beef organization that is putting the whole BSE issue into the hands of the anti beef groups by claiming all beef coming from a country affect by BSE is tainted and unsafe for human consumption no matter what safguards are being used in that country to protect their consumers. It is not going to be for something that the internatioal community recommended you do which was adopt science based import/ export rules.
Geez get your damn head out of the sand box and look around for once in your pathetic life. :mad: You are like the fleas and ticks that attach themselves to the dog and suck the live blood out. Can somebody please find a flea collar?

And you still haven't answer the question about How R-CALF can claim the US has the SAFEST BEEF IN THE WORLD RAISED TO THE HIGHEST STANDARDS IN THE WORLD? Come on Sandhusker what are they using to qualify their SAFEST AND HIGHEST claims?
 
Tam, "Sandhusker that is why they have comment periods to give the gerenal public the right to COMMENT…."

Sometimes commenting won't do it, stronger measures are called for. You should of been doing something other than commenting and you might not of lost your packing industry.

Tam, "According to 40 judges they did their job Sandhusker it was just one lone judge using incorrect legal standards that said they didn't and look what happen to him. "

According to you, the USDA's use of low WAS arbitrary, which puts you in disagreement with those 40 judges.

Tam,".. consumers demanded absolutely NO SIDE AFFECTS."

One of the jobs of the USDA is to keep diseases out of the US. How can they fulfill that mandate when they KNOW their actions open the door to disease?

Tam, "…. beneifits far out weigh the risk." What benefits? And how can we weigh any possible benefits when the USDA can't define the risks?! "Low" is not a definition! Without a reference or scale, it's a subjective opinion! The USDA claimed they reached their decision scientifically, but that can't answer the single most important question in scientific terms? Geeeeeeze.

Tam, "…but the MAJORITY would take the drug as prescribed and not live on what ifs and how low is low."

Yeah, right. So what would you do? Braid your beard like the bikers do or shave before every meal? What about your little gas side effect? Would you still go to church? Maybe sit up front with the old ladies who are hard of hearing and hope their sense of smell is gone, too?

Tam, "Sandhusker why should international trade be decided on the fact that a VERY SMALL part of one sector of a very large industry thinks the governing agency is being arbitrary when the rest of the very large industry disagrees with that VERY SMALL MOUTHY PART? What ever happen to majority wins in the US? Has the US beef industry suddenly became a dictatorship with R-CALF as the head party?

Thinks the USDA was arbitrary? We already decided they were, remember? "Very Small" & "Majority" is your biased and arbitrary opinion. Even the majority has to follow laws. The government has to be accountable to even the smallest minority. Funny how you call R-CALF the dictator when we are going thru democratic channels to challenge the dictatorial moves of a government agency with an accountability problem!

Tam, "Did you ever read the Nafta Report on Agriculture."

No, I didn't. I think NAFTA was a huge mistake and even unconstitutional. I have no use nor regard for NAFTA.

Tam, "Can you PLEASE STOP ACTING LIKE THE US HASN"T GOT BSE IN THEIR NATIVE HERD IT IS GETTING SICKENING!!!!!!!"

We haven't got what you have, now have we? Even if we did, you can't eradicate it by bring in more.

Tam, "And you still haven't answer the question about How R-CALF can claim the US has the SAFEST BEEF IN THE WORLD RAISED TO THE HIGHEST STANDARDS IN THE WORLD?"

I'm going to blow up your "brainwashed" accusation and say that I don't agree with that statement. I think we used to before the government decided trade was the holy grail. Not any more.
 
Sandcheska,

Where did the USDA state that opening the border to Canada would allow entry of BSE positive cases?


~SH~
 

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