USDA Couldn't Track Their Own Shadow!!!

[don]

ot when it was a health issue usda got full cooperation from cfia. this is just an internal animal id issue and i don't think canadian information should just be handed out to make up for the shortcomings of your system or lack thereof.

 

[Anonymous]

i don't how your system exactly down there works but the brand inspector will not release the cheque up here if the brand is not registered to the people selling the animal...if the seller is selling cattle without their brand they would have to provide a proof bill of sale....

Blackjack--It is the same in Montana and about the same in 15-20 other brand states...As far as eartags- brand inspectors will note in their tally book notes if the herd has all/majority of have blue tags and what ear they are in (right -steers, left heifers-- whatever) But many of these outfits have 2-3 tags when you count flytags and stuff- varying color and type-Lots red tag when they have to doctor, so they know its no longer "All Natural"--each ranch has its own system- so its impossible to note down all tags or even look at the tags.....

 

[Sandhusker]

ot when it was a health issue usda got full cooperation from cfia. this is just an internal animal id issue and i don't think canadian information should just be handed out to make up for the shortcomings of your system or lack thereof.

It's against the law for those cattle to be here. That means a crime was committed. If Canada is withholding information, that is abbetting, is it not?

 

[Anonymous]

ot when it was a health issue usda got full cooperation from cfia. this is just an internal animal id issue and i don't think canadian information should just be handed out to make up for the shortcomings of your system or lack thereof.

Why did the packers condemn all these cattle and destroy the offal from all the cattle the man brought in if they didn't think its a health issue :???:

I know to Canadians that have stuck their heads in the sand- they'd like to think or portray BSE is not a health issue...But it is to many folks down here it definitely is.......

Whatever- A lot of the workability of the whole Border Rule has now been put into question again.......

 

[Bill]

...here in alberta every animal that goes through the sale barn would have been checked for brands and that it had a cfia tag...if there is not a tag the animal is tagged at the owner's expense...i don't how your system exactly down there works but the brand inspector will not release the cheque up here if the brand is not registered to the people selling the animal...if the seller is selling cattle without their brand they would have to provide a proof bill of sale...there is no govt involvement in these transactions...so if your system is somewhat the same... again oldtimer how is it that you could lay blame on usda when someone seems to be corrupt inside your own industry..

Blackjack-- the point is that your ID system is worthless to us if Canada isn't going to cooperate with it...The ID tag and the brand were the big things the USDA made such a big deal about always being able to trace these UTM cattle....Now we have contraband, illegal, possibly diseased (definitely higher risk) cattle that threaten the integrity of our cattle herd and Canada says "NO" to information :???:

Last night I sent copies of this article to my Congressmen and asked them to follow up on it--- and the main thing I pointed out to them was the worthlessness of any ID agreement with Canada, and what a farce it will be to keep track of OTM cows/breeding stock if they go ahead with Rule 2....

Since it appears that USDA's sealed truck, sealed feedlot, feedlot inspection system isn't working- and If we don't have a system in place to track them when and after they come across-- which many states don't have--then they should not be coming across-PERIOD....

A Canadian origin cow that the USDA took 10 days time to ID already cost the US cattle industry billions $- if Canada won't co-operate in the tracking of these health rule violating animals- then what assurance do we have that Canada will cooperate with us if we find another old Canadian cow at a US slaughter house.... :???:

This is going to be comical either way it turns out as it once again shows the need for some type of NATIONAL STANDARDIZED ID system in the US.

Not if they are in a no brand state and have no brands Don't know what part of SD they went thru the ring in- but east Dakota is a no brand area...

EAST DAKOTA???????????? The whole state of SD isn't even under the same laws or rules? How do you defend your brand and manifest system now Oldtimer? Shouldn't you shutdown trade with EAST Dakota? :lol: :lol: :lol: Don't expect to piggyback on our ID system Oldtimer. If it isn't a disease issue why should we prove point of origin to y'all when you won't even put a system in plavce to do it in the US.

If this is more than another R-Klan sideshow it will soon be pushed to the side by more serious matters and if it is R-Klan playing games again it will likely backfire and causing even a greater lack of credibility. We're glad you sent it to your Congressmen Oldtimer, in fact send it every place you can think of as something sure stinks on this one especially your lack of a credible ID system.

 

[don]

ot all you've done in condemning the shortcomings of the canadian system is to show the total lack of traceability inside your own borders. the rest of the world figured this out long before you ever will and wants to see evidence that the usa has some sort of disease control system before they take your product again. you want to ride on the back of the canadian system (isn't that what you're always accusing canadians of?). get out your brandbook and get to work.

 

[Anonymous]

ot all you've done in condemning the shortcomings of the canadian system is to show the total lack of traceability inside your own borders. the rest of the world figured this out long before you ever will and wants to see evidence that the usa has some sort of disease control system before they take your product again. you want to ride on the back of the canadian system (isn't that what you're always accusing canadians of?). get out your brandbook and get to work.

But even if they proposed a National ID system- USDA has said it will take years to get it operating...I just saw an article the other day where USDA/APHIS even admitted to the head of the Senate Ag Committee that they've reallized their proposed system was not workable under the US's marketing system without creating undo hardship/cost...The Senator told them to keep working on it....

USDA told the US cattlemen/courts that the system set up with the Canadian ID and brand and sealed trucks was a workable system--now there appears their is a leak in the system- and it appears as tho Canada is refusing to help fix that :roll:

It is Canada that wants to bring these animals in- so it should be Canada bending over backwards to cooperate in finding how illegal/contraband animals ended up where they did....If not then the whole import plan is unworkable at this time- and then should be stopped until it can be made workable......

 

[Bill]

Canada witholding information??????
Abbetting??????
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I doubt it but that's probably what "THE SOURCES" at R-Klan are trying to spread. I wonder how reliable those sources really are as we're still waiting for ocm's cofirmation from the Ivory Temple that USDA screwed up on Rule 2.

Canada is BRINGING animals into the US??????
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Hate to break it to you Oldtimer but Canada isn't BRINGING them to US cattlemen. It's good 'ol boys like yourself, US PRODUCERS, that are buying them and it looks like once again some of them may be R-Calfers.

 

[don]

ot: It is Canada that wants to bring these animals in- so it should be Canada bending over backwards to cooperate in finding how illegal/contraband animals ended up where they did...

i'd guess the animals were purchased and brought in by an american so don't ask canada to police what americans are doing inside their own borders. i doubt you'd like the idea anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

ot: It is Canada that wants to bring these animals in- so it should be Canada bending over backwards to cooperate in finding how illegal/contraband animals ended up where they did...

i'd guess the animals were purchased and brought in by an american so don't ask canada to police what americans are doing inside their own borders. i doubt you'd like the idea anyway.

Looks to me like more one sided "cross border co-operation" :roll:

 

[don]

lol. you get sillier every day ot.

 

[Anonymous]

lol. you get sillier every day ot.

Looks to me like Canada is the one acting pretty silly to me-- If BSE isn't a livestock health issue- why did you guys frantically put together your ID system after discovering BSE... :???: Why were these cattle condemned at slaughter by USDA :???:

Now we have contraband cattle from a higher risk country endangering the US herds- - the US food chain-- the US risk status-- and some of our export markets -- and Canada says it's proprietary information and won't do any tracking...And won't work to ID where they came from or how they came be where they were at :roll:

Like I put in the e-mails to the Congressmen- what assurances do we have Canada won't pull the same stunt 5 years down the line when one of their OTM's they send down staggers to the slaughter house and tests positive, since USDA says it estimates Canada will have positives showing up for 20 years....

If USDA/CFIA can't work together to keep track of these animals- maybe then there shouldn't be any coming across......

 

[don]

the id system was in place before bse. this has been pointed out before but it's another thing you're in denial about. as far as being a higher risk country ask the nations around the world, maybe taiwan, who say they are ready to take canadian beef again. if usda had a system for traceback you would probably be able to get the job done but now you want canada to do the job for you just as in the washington cow. your native cases you couldn't trace back either so the deficiency is on your side of the border. we all know you ike to blame canada for everything but if you don't get objective and start to figure out what you have to do and then get it done the difficulties will just continue. maybe you need a viable id system not a system that might have worked a hundred years ago with a lot less cattle going a lot less distance.

 

[Bill]

lol. you get sillier every day ot.

Looks to me like Canada is the one acting pretty silly to me-- If BSE isn't a livestock health issue- why did you guys frantically put together your ID system after discovering BSE... :???: Why were these cattle condemned at slaughter by USDA :???:

Now we have contraband cattle from a higher risk country endangering the US herds- - the US food chain-- the US risk status-- and some of our export markets -- and Canada says it's proprietary information and won't do any tracking...And won't work to ID where they came from or how they came be where they were at :roll:

Like I put in the e-mails to the Congressmen- what assurances do we have Canada won't pull the same stunt 5 years down the line when one of their OTM's they send down staggers to the slaughter house and tests positive, since USDA says it estimates Canada will have positives showing up for 20 years....

If USDA/CFIA can't work together to keep track of these animals- maybe then there shouldn't be any coming across......

Her it is again Oldtimer:

From the CCIA website:

When Did It Start?

The Program began January 1, 2001 in which all cattle must be tagged with an approved CCIA ear tag upon leaving their farm of origin. Full enforcement of the program by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, with monetary penalties, began on July 1, 2002.

On July 1, 2001 all packing plants began reading all tags, transferring the information to the carcass and maintaining that identity to the point of carcass inspection. This includes provincially inspected plants and non-inspected plants.

Enforcement

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) enforces the Canadian Cattle Identification Program with penalties for non-compliance beginning at $500 and going as high as $4,000. Early payment can reduce the fines by as much as 50%. The need for assessing penalties will be minimal as all industry sectors will be aware of the requirements and will be expecting compliance from their suppliers.

As don pointed out you have ben told this before but apparently you choose to continue to lie about it to advance whatever anti-Canadian kick of the day you happen to be on.

 

[Anonymous]

don- bill-- We can point fingers back and forth at who's system is best- and who's to blame--But it all boils down to the fact there is apparently a flaw in the system and it is not working as promised, the needed cooperation to try to find the reason, is apparently not there--It does involve a herd health risk, consumer risk, and economic viability risk-- so the last thing we should be doing is looking at expanding imports of higher risk cattle under a broken system....

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

don- bill-- We can point fingers back and forth at who's system is best- and who's to blame--But it all boils down to the fact there is apparently a flaw in the system and it is not working as promised, the needed cooperation to try to find the reason, is apparently not there--It does involve a herd health risk, consumer risk, and economic viability risk-- so the last thing we should be doing is looking at expanding imports of higher risk cattle under a broken system....

Hey OT do banks ever get robbed? Guess it's just a flaw in the system not that there are criminals ? Those cattle were branded to get across the border that was one of the conditions. Just because you guys have dragged your feet on a credible ID system don't blame us. How many stolen cattle go thru those "Eastern" dakota markets?

 

[Anonymous]

don- bill-- We can point fingers back and forth at who's system is best- and who's to blame--But it all boils down to the fact there is apparently a flaw in the system and it is not working as promised, the needed cooperation to try to find the reason, is apparently not there--It does involve a herd health risk, consumer risk, and economic viability risk-- so the last thing we should be doing is looking at expanding imports of higher risk cattle under a broken system....

Hey OT do banks ever get robbed? Guess it's just a flaw in the system not that there are criminals ? Those cattle were branded to get across the border that was one of the conditions. Just because you guys have dragged your feet on a credible ID system don't blame us. How many stolen cattle go thru those "Eastern" dakota markets?

I still have not seen anywhere that these cattle were branded or had USDA import tags......

I'm not blaming anyone...I'm just saying this is more evidence that the system is not working and apparently is flawed as the USDA/CFIA has it set up-- so we definitely shouldn't be looking at expanding imports of higher risk cattle until they find where the holes are and get it fixed....And apparently Canucks don't want to help fix the problem :roll: ....

Definitely raises a lot of questions about USDA's/CFIA's ability to implement and fullfill the requirements of Rule 2- and Canada's true dedication to controlling/eradicating the BSE problem.....

 

[William Kanitz]

Put them on ScoringAg records and they will never be lost.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

don- bill-- We can point fingers back and forth at who's system is best- and who's to blame--But it all boils down to the fact there is apparently a flaw in the system and it is not working as promised, the needed cooperation to try to find the reason, is apparently not there--It does involve a herd health risk, consumer risk, and economic viability risk-- so the last thing we should be doing is looking at expanding imports of higher risk cattle under a broken system....

Hey OT do banks ever get robbed? Guess it's just a flaw in the system not that there are criminals ? Those cattle were branded to get across the border that was one of the conditions. Just because you guys have dragged your feet on a credible ID system don't blame us. How many stolen cattle go thru those "Eastern" dakota markets?

I still have not seen anywhere that these cattle were branded or had USDA import tags......

I'm not blaming anyone...I'm just saying this is more evidence that the system is not working and apparently is flawed as the USDA/CFIA has it set up-- so we definitely shouldn't be looking at expanding imports of higher risk cattle until they find where the holes are and get it fixed....And apparently Canucks don't want to help fix the problem :roll: ....

Definitely raises a lot of questions about USDA's/CFIA's ability to implement and fullfill the requirements of Rule 2- and Canada's true dedication to controlling/eradicating the BSE problem.....

Be interesting if those cattle weren't branded which they need to have to leave canada is if maybe someone got ahold of some CCIA tags and just installed them on some US calves just to create a problem.

 

[Anonymous]

Be interesting if those cattle weren't branded which they need to have to leave canada is if maybe someone got ahold of some CCIA tags and just installed them on some US calves just to create a problem.

Or it could mean like years ago pre BSE, when many of the Border immigration folks were barely checking those sealed trucks- just looking at the ones they could see thru the holes in the truck and seeing if those had the necessary eartags..... :roll:

Thats one of the fallacies of tags as an ID system...They can come and go pretty quick....If there are no brands as I understood ocm to say - this guy in SD could of jerked the tags and never had a problem, had he realized it ...How many more have and are coming across thru a hole somewhere....