USDA Couldn't Track Their Own Shadow!!!

[Anonymous]

Just a tiny bit of info I gleaned tonite-- the cattle were sold to the slaughter plant- and this "investigation" has been going on since Nov. 29th, 2006.....The cattle had Canadian bar code tags with 9 digit numbers on them....And the USDA has affirmed that there is no violation on the part of the SD producer........

If they were west river cattle and were not inspected before they were shipped to slaughter the feeder most definatley broke the law. Did they tell you who the brand inspectors was OT. Was it the SDSGA THEY ARE GETTING RICH ON THAT 70CENT BRAND INSPECTION FEE AND THEY COULD BE PASSING THAT MONEY ALONG TO R-CALF. Do you think all there members have been made aware of that :shock:

You have to have a brand to make brand inspection work!! And I can tell you know little about how Brands and Livestock Departments work and operate if you think any of them can get rich off a 70 cent inspection fee...I know little of SD system- but I know that running a Brands Department is not cheap.....

What would be your alternative? Another government bureaucracy? Would you rather have a new Federal bureaucracy created and national system developed with Federal inspectors doing the job? I can guarantee that unless the taxpayers picked up the bill that would cost much more than 70 cents a head....

 

[mwj]

Just a tiny bit of info I gleaned tonite-- the cattle were sold to the slaughter plant- and this "investigation" has been going on since Nov. 29th, 2006.....The cattle had Canadian bar code tags with 9 digit numbers on them....And the USDA has affirmed that there is no violation on the part of the SD producer........

If they were west river cattle and were not inspected before they were shipped to slaughter the feeder most definatley broke the law. Did they tell you who the brand inspectors was OT. Was it the SDSGA THEY ARE GETTING RICH ON THAT 70CENT BRAND INSPECTION FEE AND THEY COULD BE PASSING THAT MONEY ALONG TO R-CALF. Do you think all there members have been made aware of that :shock:

You have to have a brand to make brand inspection work!! And I can tell you know little about how Brands and Livestock Departments work and operate if you think any of them can get rich off a 70 cent inspection fee...I know little of SD system- but I know that running a Brands Department is not cheap.....

What would be your alternative? Another government bureaucracy? Would you rather have a new Federal bureaucracy created and national system developed with Federal inspectors doing the job? I can guarantee that unless the taxpayers picked up the bill that would cost much more than 70 cents a head....

OT go to the SD brand inspection website and it says the cattle are to be inspected PRIOR to leaving the area WETHER THEY HAVE A BRAND OR NOT. I would guess it is to establish ownership. Are you saying brand inspection is to grade them on there artwork with a branding iron :roll: OT if they can not make it pay they (SDSGA) should get out of the brand inspection buisness. I am sure that they are not obligated to do it at a loss are they? Maybe you should call them and give them your input so they can do a better job.

 

[Anonymous]

If they were west river cattle and were not inspected before they were shipped to slaughter the feeder most definatley broke the law. Did they tell you who the brand inspectors was OT. Was it the SDSGA THEY ARE GETTING RICH ON THAT 70CENT BRAND INSPECTION FEE AND THEY COULD BE PASSING THAT MONEY ALONG TO R-CALF. Do you think all there members have been made aware of that :shock:

You have to have a brand to make brand inspection work!! And I can tell you know little about how Brands and Livestock Departments work and operate if you think any of them can get rich off a 70 cent inspection fee...I know little of SD system- but I know that running a Brands Department is not cheap.....

What would be your alternative? Another government bureaucracy? Would you rather have a new Federal bureaucracy created and national system developed with Federal inspectors doing the job? I can guarantee that unless the taxpayers picked up the bill that would cost much more than 70 cents a head....

OT go to the SD brand inspection website and it says the cattle are to be inspected PRIOR to leaving the area WETHER THEY HAVE A BRAND OR NOT. I would guess it is to establish ownership. Are you saying brand inspection is to grade them on there artwork with a branding iron :roll: OT if they can not make it pay they (SDSGA) should get out of the brand inspection buisness. I am sure that they are not obligated to do it at a loss are they? Maybe you should call them and give them your input so they can do a better job.

mwj- I don't understand what your arguing- or just arguing to be saying something....The animals had no brands- so they would be inspected as no brand cattle, if they were moved in the brand area and as the owner/possessor would sign an affidavit of ownership....Eartags are not considered ID or proof of ownership- and are seldom examined.....If moved in a no brand area probably no one would look at them unless they were going out of state and needed health inspections by a Vet...

But you miss the point that these cattle should never have been where they were in the first place unless there are loopholes in the border/import system.....

I think its great that a state organization can handle the brand inspection job without creating another government bureaucracy in this day of creating big government....

 

[mwj]

You have to have a brand to make brand inspection work!! And I can tell you know little about how Brands and Livestock Departments work and operate if you think any of them can get rich off a 70 cent inspection fee...I know little of SD system- but I know that running a Brands Department is not cheap.....

What would be your alternative? Another government bureaucracy? Would you rather have a new Federal bureaucracy created and national system developed with Federal inspectors doing the job? I can guarantee that unless the taxpayers picked up the bill that would cost much more than 70 cents a head....

OT go to the SD brand inspection website and it says the cattle are to be inspected PRIOR to leaving the area WETHER THEY HAVE A BRAND OR NOT. I would guess it is to establish ownership. Are you saying brand inspection is to grade them on there artwork with a branding iron :roll: OT if they can not make it pay they (SDSGA) should get out of the brand inspection buisness. I am sure that they are not obligated to do it at a loss are they? Maybe you should call them and give them your input so they can do a better job.

mwj- I don't understand what your arguing- or just arguing to be saying something....The animals had no brands- so they would be inspected as no brand cattle, if they were moved in the brand area and as the owner/possessor would sign an affidavit of ownership....Eartags are not considered ID or proof of ownership- and are seldom examined.....If moved in a no brand area probably no one would look at them unless they were going out of state and needed health inspections by a Vet...

But you miss the point that these cattle should never have been where they were in the first place unless there are loopholes in the border/import system.....

I think its great that a state organization can handle the brand inspection job without creating another government bureaucracy in this day of creating big government....

OT as far as anyone knows it is a RUMOR that the cattle in question do not carry a brand! Were you not the one that posted that RUMOR without any proof to back it up? YOU said they went out of state to be slaughtered so I would guess they should have been looked at. The brand board has a criminal investigator by the name of Shorty Zilverberg that you could contact if you are needing more info on the need for these cattle to be inspected. If you need his phone no. it is 605-773-5813.

 

[Anonymous]

mwj- The folks in SD have been told by the State Health Officials that the cattle were not branded.....Thats good enough for me...If you need more you can call as well as anyone.....

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

mwj- The folks in SD have been told by the State Health Officials that the cattle were not branded.....Thats good enough for me...If you need more you can call as well as anyone.....

Since "REAL" Canadian cattle need to be branded to enter the USA this raises a question of criminal activity in South Dakota.

 

[S.S.A.P.]

..... no one would look at them unless they were going out of state and needed health inspections by a Vet...

From the South Dakota Animal Industry Board

All livestock entering South Dakota must have an official health certificate* stating:
1. Name, address, and phone number of consignor; name, rural mailing address, and phone number of consignee.

2. Kind of livestock, age, sex, breed, and test results, etc.

3. Signature, address, and phone number of inspecting licensed accredited veterinarian.

4. Individual official identification listed as required.

5. Import shipping permit number.

6. Must be free of infectious or contagious diseases.

 

[Anonymous]

mwj- The folks in SD have been told by the State Health Officials that the cattle were not branded.....Thats good enough for me...If you need more you can call as well as anyone.....

Since "REAL" Canadian cattle need to be branded to enter the USA this raises a question of criminal activity in South Dakota.

Or lax USDA/CFIA inspection on both sides of the border.....

 

[S.S.A.P.]

...If you need more you can call as well as anyone.....

So why wouldn't you take your own advice (call them) instead of authoring post after post of innuendo and "rumour" Were you afraid that what you were told would make your accusations "false".

 

[Texan]

This whole thing looks to me like it will reflect poorly on the vision of M-COOL enforcement that some people have - "If it's here and not branded, it must be domestic." If they weren't branded, that would make these cattle of US origin, wouldn't it?

Of course it's all the USDA's fault for not having an army on the border...

 

[Anonymous]

...If you need more you can call as well as anyone.....

So why wouldn't you take your own advice (call them) instead of authoring post after post of innuendo and "rumour" Were you afraid that what you were told would make your accusations "false".

I doubt if the state is that much involved if its like normal federal undertakings...They usually quickly move the state out of the picture and only communicate with them when it benefits themselves....And anyway you look at this it is definitely a federal violation- and they would have primary jurisdiction....

My question is if this happened over a month and half ago (Nov.29), why hasn't USDA released any information- even to just the fact they were in the country and/or that they are investigating it?...They spend millions $ on press/media consultants and I get a half dozen press releases a day from them.....But their silence on this speaks louder every day....It shouts "of egg on face".....

Only thing I want to know is why USDA is not following up with its prior promises to be open and transparent with the Border/BSE issue......

 

[S.S.A.P.]

...If you need more you can call as well as anyone.....

So why wouldn't you take your own advice (call them) instead of authoring post after post of innuendo and "rumour" Were you afraid that what you were told would make your accusations "false".

I doubt if the state is that much involved if its like normal federal undertakings...They usually quickly move the state out of the picture and only communicate with them when it benefits themselves....And anyway you look at this it is definitely a federal violation- and they would have primary jurisdiction....

My question is if this happened over a month and half ago (Nov.29), why hasn't USDA released any information- even to just the fact they were in the country and/or that they are investigating it?...They spend millions $ on press/media consultants and I get a half dozen press releases a day from them.....But their silence on this speaks louder every day....It shouts "of egg on face".....

Only thing I want to know is why USDA is not following up with its prior promises to be open and transparent with the Border/BSE issue......

Is it possible that this isn't a "Border/BSE issue ...."?


It appears you hold yourself in such high regard that even statements you make are not applicable to you...

As far as giving out info on ongoing investigations or concluded investigations awaiting prosecution- it is a judgement call that needs to be made by the Administrator/Investigator/Prosecutor as to what to release as you want only info that will not endanger the investigation or the prosecution....

 

[Anonymous]

Is it possible that this isn't a "Border/BSE issue ...."?

Cattle with Canadian eartags being in the US illegally is a Border/BSE issue anyway you look at it.......

 

[S.S.A.P.]

Is it possible that this isn't a "Border/BSE issue ...."?

Cattle with Canadian eartags being in the US illegally is a Border/BSE issue anyway you look at it.......

Your're speculating ...
I'll repeat:
It appears you hold yourself in such high regard that even statements you make

As far as giving out info on ongoing investigations or concluded investigations awaiting prosecution- it is a judgement call that needs to be made by the Administrator/Investigator/Prosecutor as to what to release as you want only info that will not endanger the investigation or the prosecution....

are not applicable to you...

and you don't apply this to yourself either

But over the years I found that being as open and honest with the media/public as you could be paid you back ten fold over in credibility and lack of rumors and speculation.....

 

[Anonymous]

As far as giving out info on ongoing investigations or concluded investigations awaiting prosecution- it is a judgement call that needs to be made by the Administrator/Investigator/Prosecutor as to what to release as you want only info that will not endanger the investigation or the prosecution....

[/quote]

Again SSAP- You pick out things and post them out of context...My response is to your statement on cattletoday saying that a Montana Brand Inspector/Investigator told you it is against the law for him to release info regarding investigations....This is my total answer....

He's right- he can't...He's wrong tho that the information can't be released-- Spent 30 years in Investigation/Administration- and there is no law against it....In fact certain basic info from offense reports is considered to be Public Information and is obtainable by the public or media on request....


Departments usually have rules/policy about who and what can then be given out about ongoing investigations....State Inspectors/Investigators are not allowed to release any- but that would not stop the Head of the Brands Enforcement Division or the Attorney General from releasing any....Federal Agencies act much the same way...

As far as giving out info on ongoing investigations or concluded investigations awaiting prosecution- it is a judgement call that needs to be made by the Administrator/Investigator/Prosecutor as to what to release as you want only info that will not endanger the investigation or the prosecution....In my Department the only ones that were allowed to release information were myself, the Undersheriff, or the Chief Deputy....

But over the years I found that being as open and honest with the media/public as you could be paid you back ten fold over in credibility and lack of rumors and speculation.....

I guess USDA hasn't learned about the being open and honest part yet-- or they are so embarassed they want to try to keep it all secret.....The info is already out there in the papers/public that it is being investigated- so it can't jeopardize anything now by making a public statement of it-- But it can build doubt of credibility and their true committment to the public/cattle producer by playing secrecy games........And all their silence can/will do is bring a big dark shadow over their ability/committment to enforce the Rule 2.....


I want to see a Government Agency's feet held to the fire in order to make it be open and not work behind closed doors or in back alleys....I would think Canadians would be asking the same, since they stand the most to lose.......

And from what I understand- the media may be putting a little more pressure on the USDA folks this next week......

 

[Tam]

Oldtimer:.....But their silence on this speaks louder every day....It shouts "of egg on face".....

Has anyone ever looked on the R-CALF or South Dakota Stock Growers websites for any information on this story? I did and not one word was found. :? If this is true and it is over a month and a half old why has R-CALF been so silent on the issue? Could it be they know more than they are willing to testify to? :shock:

BTW I didn't get to talk to the GM of CCIA as she wasn't in Regina.

According to my sources, the feeder was an 82 year old man, a very small SD feeder that didn't seem to care where the animals came from. :?

But more of interest is the tidbit that the Sale barn denies they ever sold the Canadian cattle. :???:

However the packer was the first to put a request into the CCIA but they didn't have any authority to do so. As did the USDA but they don't have the authority to do so either. The USDA was told that CFIA could access the information ONLY IF THERE WAS A HEALTH ISSUE. :nod:

As again Oldtimer, our system was designed by the Canadian Cattle Industry, not our Government, to only give the information out if there is a TRUE HEALTH THREAT not on healthly stray animal reports.

So now I given you my information, let's see you get your Deputy Dog nose to the ground and follow the oh so stinking US paper trail and find out where those cattle really came from :wink: and why R-CALF hasn't stepped into the middle of this issue. :shock:

 

[Anonymous]

However the packer was the first to put a request into the CCIA but they didn't have any authority to do so. As did the USDA but they don't have the authority to do so either. The USDA was told that CFIA could access the information ONLY IF THERE WAS A HEALTH ISSUE.

As again Oldtimer, our system was designed by the Canadian Cattle Industry, not our Government, to only give the information out if there is a TRUE HEALTH THREAT not on healthly stray animal reports.

Thanks Tam-- But in the US it is a health issue- these are cattle from a higher risk BSE country- that could have potentially threatened the US consumer and the US cattle herd-- the reason our BSE safeguard rules were originally put in place- and the reason for the current border crossing import policy...I can now see where two individual countries rules/definitions and failure to cooperate on investigations could put a huge cloud over the USDA's ability to track cattle under the Rule 2...

Now I have a good idea of why USDA hasn't been open and transparent- they don't want to admit that their proposal they are currently accepting public comment on won't work....Their reliance on the Canadian tag is worthless to the US for BSE prevention.....

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

However the packer was the first to put a request into the CCIA but they didn't have any authority to do so. As did the USDA but they don't have the authority to do so either. The USDA was told that CFIA could access the information ONLY IF THERE WAS A HEALTH ISSUE.

As again Oldtimer, our system was designed by the Canadian Cattle Industry, not our Government, to only give the information out if there is a TRUE HEALTH THREAT not on healthly stray animal reports.

Thanks Tam-- But in the US it is a health issue- these are cattle from a higher risk BSE country- that could have potentially threatened the US consumer and the US cattle herd-- the reason our BSE safeguard rules were originally put in place- and the reason for the current border crossing import policy...I can now see where two individual countries rules/definitions and failure to cooperate on investigations could put a huge cloud over the USDA's ability to track cattle under the Rule 2...

Now I have a good idea of why USDA hasn't been open and transparent- they don't want to admit that their proposal they are currently accepting public comment on won't work....Their reliance on the Canadian tag is worthless to the US for BSE prevention.....

So OT your telling us that these animals were tested and came back positive for BSE? I am sure if that was the case that USDA and CFIA would be all over this.

This was a failure of the South Dakota animal inspection process. Animals shipped out of province need inspection in Sask. and animals sold at a auction need inspection. Even auctions usually like to know who their consigners are so they can pay them. I guess in the US unclaimed money is just put in the LMA party fund.

 

[Anonymous]

Big Muddy- Why was the border closed in the first place? Why did Canada close their border to all countries with BSE? It was because BSE is a health issue....Both human and herd health-- and the BSE import closure/quarantine policy was a health policy to protect consumers and cattle.....

Why do we have the current import rules we have, with sealed trucks, and segregation? Because its a health issue....
Now we have cattle that violate that health quarantine regs- and Canada says it isn't a health issue to them... :roll:

I would think Canada would be bending over backwards to close this hole these cattle came thru that violates a rule that was put in place because of health concerns...

This gives the US cattlemen an early inkling of what they might expect in arguing semantics and definitions with a foreign country if some other disease did break out in an imported Canadian cow- is it a disease or not - it is- it isn't, is so, is not.... :roll: ....

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Big Muddy- Why was the border closed in the first place? Why did Canada close their border to all countries with BSE? It was because BSE is a health issue....Both human and herd health-- and the BSE import closure/quarantine policy was a health policy to protect consumers and cattle.....

Why do we have the current import rules we have, with sealed trucks, and segregation? Because its a health issue....
Now we have cattle that violate that health quarantine regs- and Canada says it isn't a health issue to them... :roll:

I would think Canada would be bending over backwards to close this hole these cattle came thru that violates a rule that was put in place because of health concerns...

This gives the US cattlemen an early inkling of what they might expect in arguing semantics and definitions with a foreign country if some other disease did break out in an imported Canadian cow- is it a disease or not - it is- it isn't, is so, is not.... :roll: ....

OT why should Canda bend anywhich way to fix a fence in the backside of any South Dakota feedlot?
Was the confidentiality of the US M'ID one of the major issuses ? Who would have access to the information.
If those cattle would have had a "Reportable" disease then a trace back would have taken place. How would a trace back to the rancher that raised those calves in Canada traced them from the border where they were inspected for tags and brands? It's the South Dakota Brand and paper trail thats failing. A system that you touted as much superior to tags that can be fiddled with. Better get your blood hounds on the trail.