USDA Couldn't Track Their Own Shadow!!!

[Anonymous]

Big Muddy- Why was the border closed in the first place? Why did Canada close their border to all countries with BSE? It was because BSE is a health issue....Both human and herd health-- and the BSE import closure/quarantine policy was a health policy to protect consumers and cattle.....

Why do we have the current import rules we have, with sealed trucks, and segregation? Because its a health issue....
Now we have cattle that violate that health quarantine regs- and Canada says it isn't a health issue to them... :roll:

I would think Canada would be bending over backwards to close this hole these cattle came thru that violates a rule that was put in place because of health concerns...

This gives the US cattlemen an early inkling of what they might expect in arguing semantics and definitions with a foreign country if some other disease did break out in an imported Canadian cow- is it a disease or not - it is- it isn't, is so, is not.... :roll: ....

OT why should Canda bend anywhich way to fix a fence in the backside of any South Dakota feedlot?

Its Canada that wants to send higher risk BSE cattle to the US...If Canada does not want to work with the US on an import plan-the alternative is shut her tight until you eradicate the problem.....And If they are escapees from a SD feedlot- why are they not branded?
Was the confidentiality of the US M'ID one of the major issuses ? Who would have access to the information.

That is true- but this ties to a disease quarantine program- so should be a traceable situation....Right now as far as the US is concerned Canadian cattle are quarantined....

If those cattle would have had a "Reportable" disease then a trace back would have taken place.

You say that- but how do we know that...The USDA tied/sold to the cattlemen their import program around the fact these cattle would be tagged with Canadian tags and would be traceable....Makes their whole border import program go up in smoke if Canada is not going to work with them....Completely shoots Rule 2 as now written out the door....

How would a trace back to the rancher that raised those calves in Canada traced them from the border where they were inspected for tags and brands?
When you do an investigation you fill in all the knowns or the knowns that can be easily found out- then you fill in the holes left until you have the Who, What, Where,When, How, and Why......Canadas failure to give the investigators an easy "known" erases one trail they could be following to fill in the holes- The tag owner may know exactly where the next stop was...

It's the South Dakota Brand and paper trail thats failing. A system that you touted as much superior to tags that can be fiddled with. Better get your blood hounds on the trail.
I have never touted the SD system...Many in SD have been pressing for full state brand inspection and stricter enforcement for years but have met opposition from the east river folks...I know one local ranch that runs yearlings east river, that actually takes a local Montana inspector with them when the ship the cattle out so he can inspect and tally them- in case anyone questions it later....
But as of now we don't know for a fact the SD brand system failed- those in SD I talked with said no....There were no brands....
The fact is that I doubt the SD Brand Inspectors even look at ear tags- they concern themselves with brands- and no Canadian cattle are supposed to be coming thru a salebarn so they wouldn't even be looking for them if these cattle were inspected....Its impossible- I saw cows at the sale last week that had 6 different eartags in their individual ears....
The eartag import deal is a USDA Federal issue...And the point still is those cattle wouldn't have been in the salebarn if the USDA/border system hadn't of already failed....
You better hope USDA can solve this- and they don't decide they need a National ID to make the Rule 2 work-- because it will take years to get a National ID system up and running......But as I understand it the Rule 2 as now written won't work if Canada isn't going to work with/honor our USDA quarantine program with the eartags....

Question Big Muddy- since SD isn't a border state- how did those cattle get from Canada to the stockyards in SD?....Who last owned them in Canada? Who was the inspector that let them across the border without the C^N brand? That would be a question that I would hope Canada would be interested enough in to be looking into.....

 

[don]

as it is now ot you've brought no verified facts to the discussion; just a bunch of allegations, suppositions and innuendo. get names, places, dates instead of general areas, months and streettalk. you get sillier as time goes on. if usda isn't doing the job maybe r-calf can but so far you've brought nothing of substance. i have to admit though that you do have people discussing things that might have happened as if they actually did happen. if you look at the sum total of all the information you've brought to this thread you started it sounds as if you picked it up at your weekly knitting circle.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Big Muddy- Why was the border closed in the first place? Why did Canada close their border to all countries with BSE? It was because BSE is a health issue....Both human and herd health-- and the BSE import closure/quarantine policy was a health policy to protect consumers and cattle.....

Why do we have the current import rules we have, with sealed trucks, and segregation? Because its a health issue....
Now we have cattle that violate that health quarantine regs- and Canada says it isn't a health issue to them... :roll:

I would think Canada would be bending over backwards to close this hole these cattle came thru that violates a rule that was put in place because of health concerns...

This gives the US cattlemen an early inkling of what they might expect in arguing semantics and definitions with a foreign country if some other disease did break out in an imported Canadian cow- is it a disease or not - it is- it isn't, is so, is not.... :roll: ....

OT why should Canda bend anywhich way to fix a fence in the backside of any South Dakota feedlot?

Its Canada that wants to send higher risk BSE cattle to the US...If Canada does not want to work with the US on an import plan-the alternative is shut her tight until you eradicate the problem.....And If they are escapees from a SD feedlot- why are they not branded?
Was the confidentiality of the US M'ID one of the major issuses ? Who would have access to the information.

That is true- but this ties to a disease quarantine program- so should be a traceable situation....Right now as far as the US is concerned Canadian cattle are quarantined....

If those cattle would have had a "Reportable" disease then a trace back would have taken place.

You say that- but how do we know that...The USDA tied/sold to the cattlemen their import program around the fact these cattle would be tagged with Canadian tags and would be traceable....Makes their whole border import program go up in smoke if Canada is not going to work with them....Completely shoots Rule 2 as now written out the door....

How would a trace back to the rancher that raised those calves in Canada traced them from the border where they were inspected for tags and brands?
When you do an investigation you fill in all the knowns or the knowns that can be easily found out- then you fill in the holes left until you have the Who, What, Where,When, How, and Why......Canadas failure to give the investigators an easy "known" erases one trail they could be following to fill in the holes- The tag owner may know exactly where the next stop was...

It's the South Dakota Brand and paper trail thats failing. A system that you touted as much superior to tags that can be fiddled with. Better get your blood hounds on the trail.
I have never touted the SD system...Many in SD have been pressing for full state brand inspection and stricter enforcement for years but have met opposition from the east river folks...I know one local ranch that runs yearlings east river, that actually takes a local Montana inspector with them when the ship the cattle out so he can inspect and tally them- in case anyone questions it later....
But as of now we don't know for a fact the SD brand system failed- those in SD I talked with said no....There were no brands....
The fact is that I doubt the SD Brand Inspectors even look at ear tags- they concern themselves with brands- and no Canadian cattle are supposed to be coming thru a salebarn so they wouldn't even be looking for them if these cattle were inspected....Its impossible- I saw cows at the sale last week that had 6 different eartags in their individual ears....
The eartag import deal is a USDA Federal issue...And the point still is those cattle wouldn't have been in the salebarn if the USDA/border system hadn't of already failed....
You better hope USDA can solve this- and they don't decide they need a National ID to make the Rule 2 work-- because it will take years to get a National ID system up and running......But as I understand it the Rule 2 as now written won't work if Canada isn't going to work with/honor our USDA quarantine program with the eartags....

Question Big Muddy- since SD isn't a border state- how did those cattle get from Canada to the stockyards in SD?....Who last owned them in Canada? Who was the inspector that let them across the border without the C^N brand? That would be a question that I would hope Canada would be interested enough in to be looking into.....

Who sold them at the stockyards in South Dakota? As far as I hear and that is mostly rubbish from you the stockyards can't seem to recall them. Strange.

 

[Anonymous]

The only person I heard that from is Tam...That says enough right there :roll: :wink: :lol:

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

The only person I heard that from is Tam...That says enough right there :roll: :wink: :lol:

Then since mwj provided you with the phone number maybe you had better get the straight goods from them. You never beleive anything from Canada anyways.
Why didn't they test them for BSE they had an excuse to then they could have seen if BSE tested beef sold better. Maybe Creekstone would have bought them.

 

[cowsense]

Just a tiny bit of info I gleaned tonite-- the cattle were sold to the slaughter plant- and this "investigation" has been going on since Nov. 29th, 2006.....The cattle had Canadian bar code tags with 9 digit numbers on them....And the USDA has affirmed that there is no violation on the part of the SD producer........

It's been a while since the bar code tags were allowed to be put in any calves being sold................were they over 30 months of age.... maybe three or four year olds??? Canada's RFID tags have 15 numerical digits and NO BAR CODE at all as they are designed to be read electronically! This sounds like another very well researched Bash Canadian Beef At All Costs R-calf ploy! :? :? :? :???:

 

[Tam]

The only person I heard that from is Tam...That says enough right there :roll: :wink: :lol:

So my completely sober source in the Canadian beef industy is not as reliable as some drunk in a Glasgow pub. If you don't believe my source find out what the truth is Deputy Dog and bring it. Prove to us just what kind of detective you really were?

 

[mwj]

Just a tiny bit of info I gleaned tonite-- the cattle were sold to the slaughter plant- and this "investigation" has been going on since Nov. 29th, 2006.....The cattle had Canadian bar code tags with 9 digit numbers on them....And the USDA has affirmed that there is no violation on the part of the SD producer........

It's been a while since the bar code tags were allowed to be put in any calves being sold................were they over 30 months of age.... maybe three or four year olds??? Canada's RFID tags have 15 numerical digits and NO BAR CODE at all as they are designed to be read electronically! This sounds like another very well researched Bash Canadian Beef At All Costs R-calf ploy! :? :? :? :???:

These were them grass genetics Canadian cattle and they take a long time to make the CAB grid :shock: If you are having a wet dream why would you not want it to contain all of the things that trip your trigger 8)

 

[Anonymous]

The only person I heard that from is Tam...That says enough right there :roll: :wink: :lol:

So my completely sober source in the Canadian beef industy is not as reliable as some drunk in a Glasgow pub. If you don't believe my source find out what the truth is Deputy Dog and bring it. Prove to us just what kind of detective you really were?

Tam- Did you give the person a breathalyzer test Tammy...From my experiences completely sober and Canadian are oxymorons.... :wink: :lol: Don't worry I won't tell Big Muddy about your Regina partying

And yesterday on my hay question all the Canadians told me you can't believe a Canadian rancher I've known for years even if he's talking to you face to face :roll: :wink: :lol: -- which is kind of being borne out now by Canada's playing paddycake semantics games with this giving USDA the tag numbers...
Which really doesn't bother me- because it will mean a few more years before those high risk cows start coming in- give you a chance to clean up the situation.....

If Canada doesn't cooperate- Rule 2 is dead as written and a large grey cloud looms over the current written policy allowing the importing of all live cattle from Canada.....

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

The only person I heard that from is Tam...That says enough right there :roll: :wink: :lol:

So my completely sober source in the Canadian beef industy is not as reliable as some drunk in a Glasgow pub. If you don't believe my source find out what the truth is Deputy Dog and bring it. Prove to us just what kind of detective you really were?

Tam- Did you give the person a breathalyzer test Tammy...From my experiences completely sober and Canadian are oxymorons.... :wink: :lol: Don't worry I won't tell Big Muddy about your Regina partying

And yesterday on my hay question all the Canadians told me you can't believe a Canadian rancher I've known for years even if he's talking to you face to face :roll: :wink: :lol: -- which is kind of being borne out now by Canada's playing paddycake semantics games with this giving USDA the tag numbers...
Which really doesn't bother me- because it will mean a few more years before those high risk cows start coming in- give you a chance to clean up the situation.....

If Canada doesn't cooperate- Rule 2 is dead as written and a large grey cloud looms over the current written policy allowing the importing of all live cattle from Canada.....

OT a rancher just north of you asked me if I needed hay because another fellow bought a bunch of hay at Assinaboia and had more then he wanted. $60 buck a ton to the Big Muddy.

 

[Andy]

The cattle were purchased through an east river barn. The last I knew the guy was going to take the sale barn to court.
This is just one more reason why I stay as far away from them lying cheating salebarn cattle traders as I can.

 

[Anonymous]

So my completely sober source in the Canadian beef industy is not as reliable as some drunk in a Glasgow pub. If you don't believe my source find out what the truth is Deputy Dog and bring it. Prove to us just what kind of detective you really were?

Tam- Did you give the person a breathalyzer test Tammy...From my experiences completely sober and Canadian are oxymorons.... :wink: :lol: Don't worry I won't tell Big Muddy about your Regina partying

And yesterday on my hay question all the Canadians told me you can't believe a Canadian rancher I've known for years even if he's talking to you face to face :roll: :wink: :lol: -- which is kind of being borne out now by Canada's playing paddycake semantics games with this giving USDA the tag numbers...
Which really doesn't bother me- because it will mean a few more years before those high risk cows start coming in- give you a chance to clean up the situation.....

If Canada doesn't cooperate- Rule 2 is dead as written and a large grey cloud looms over the current written policy allowing the importing of all live cattle from Canada.....

OT a rancher just north of you asked me if I needed hay because another fellow bought a bunch of hay at Assinaboia and had more then he wanted. $60 buck a ton to the Big Muddy.

I could probably find folks to buy all he has....Reason I asked the Canuck friend about it was several have got ahold of me looking for hay thinking they are going to run short.....

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Tam- Did you give the person a breathalyzer test Tammy...From my experiences completely sober and Canadian are oxymorons.... :wink: :lol: Don't worry I won't tell Big Muddy about your Regina partying

And yesterday on my hay question all the Canadians told me you can't believe a Canadian rancher I've known for years even if he's talking to you face to face :roll: :wink: :lol: -- which is kind of being borne out now by Canada's playing paddycake semantics games with this giving USDA the tag numbers...
Which really doesn't bother me- because it will mean a few more years before those high risk cows start coming in- give you a chance to clean up the situation.....

If Canada doesn't cooperate- Rule 2 is dead as written and a large grey cloud looms over the current written policy allowing the importing of all live cattle from Canada.....

OT a rancher just north of you asked me if I needed hay because another fellow bought a bunch of hay at Assinaboia and had more then he wanted. $60 buck a ton to the Big Muddy.

I could probably find folks to buy all he has....Reason I asked the Canuck friend about it was several have got ahold of me looking for hay thinking they are going to run short.....

Well when Rule 2 comes into effect I will post his phone number. I wouldn't want to be accussed of being the only factor in affecting the balance of trade.

Did you make a phone call to SD to get the "Facts" about the Stolen cattle?

 

[S.S.A.P.]

OLDTIMER, LET THE READERS SEE YOU ANSWER ALL OF THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS WITHOUT ANY MENTION OF CANADA OR ANY SLY INNUENDO TO SUCH.

What disease was found Oldtimer?

Canadian cattleman designed the program for privacy. ONLY IN THE EVENT OF A "REPORTABLE" DISEASE is that information to be given to, AND ONLY AVAILABLE TO the animal health investigation. Was it not this very same rule that you demanded be incorporated into the US M'ID before you would support it?

When and how are you going to hold the American individuals and sales barn(s) responsible for moving these calves through your system?

If it is found to be a "setup" by anyone opposing Canadian imports what criminal charges will be laid against the American(s) involved?

In the event that these calves can not be traced how will this effect the relations between the US and countries that import US beef and cattle? If negatively, you can take credit as you, Mr Fox and the SDSA have voiced publicly the inability of grassroot producers to follow and trace cattle movement or even follow laws.

The USDA did not own these 7 calves, an American producer did. Does the USDA have to monitor Americans 1 on 1 to keep them honest?


Are American cattleman pleased that a few individuals (and so far one sale barn) can so easily cast a negative view on the whole American cattle industry and potentially disrupt State/Interstate and international trade?

So far the movement of these cattle has been credited to a system overseen by South Dakota State regulation. Mr Fox has said: QUOTE: "We've got the ability to track our livestock right now." UNQUOTE. If he speaks the truth you don't need Canada's help to expose the Americans that broke US/State laws.

• You have personally sent this matter onto Senators, Congressman and Govenors. Do you think that drawing attention to a State's inability to enforce their own rules and regulations will not result in further (and additional) government oversight and mandates? Are they sitting in their offices drawing up new and revised policies because it is apparent to them that the current law(s) is/are not effective? Can State rules and regulations be breached so easily?

When the investigation is complete will you, Mr. Fox and affiliates; the SDSA, LMA and r-calf publish and expose the names of all persons involved with ownership, livestock ownership inspection, shipping, receiving and marketing of these animals so as to not tarnish the image of American producers in general? There will be innocent and law-abiding American cattleman that won't want to be cast in the same light as those above.

We thank you for drawing attention to the fact that commerce at a state level allows illegal operations to procede unchecked and that Mr. Fox 's statement can be questioned as to it's accuracy……

And as you profess to be an honest man and your credibility is not to be questioned you won't mind when your international trading partners (pull their heads out of the sand) and observe the (inadequacies of) your system as you have profiled.

What American windshield are you going to lift your leg to next .... ?

 

[Anonymous]

Since your playing copy and paste- I ain't taking the time to do it again...I answered you on cattletoday.....

 

[S.S.A.P.]

And you failed to get past the first line without screwing up ....

OLDTIMER, LET THE READERS SEE YOU ANSWER ALL OF THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS WITHOUT ANY MENTION OF CANADA OR ANY SLY INNUENDO TO SUCH.

obviously you don't have the ability.

That's okay though - I have a few more Americans questioning your ability to provide accurate data...

 

[mwj]

The cattle were purchased through an east river barn. The last I knew the guy was going to take the sale barn to court.
This is just one more reason why I stay as far away from them lying cheating salebarn cattle traders as I can.

Where the cattle were purchased is not the main question I need answered. Where the cattle were FED determins wether they should have been brand inspected. If they were fed west of the river they had to be inspected when they were shipped to slaughter by the state or SDSGA not the usda.

 

[Andy]

They were fed east river also.

 

[mwj]

They were fed east river also.

Thanks for the reply as I have had no luck putting a town with the feeder.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Could east river be a clearing ground for stolen cattle?