Wouldn't it be refreshing, though, if the investigations were allowed by all the people posting here, as well as the 'players' in this drama, to play out, THEN name names, and allow the people and the courts to determine the guilty?
Of course, we know some on this site and elsewhere delight in pointing fingers and assigning guilt as soon as the names 'USDA' or 'CANADA'even APPEAR to be involved in anything where mischief is SUSPECTED, let alone PROVEN by EVIDENCE.
MRJ
Of course, we know some on this site and elsewhere delight in pointing fingers and assigning guilt as soon as the names 'USDA' or 'CANADA'even APPEAR to be involved in anything where mischief is SUSPECTED, let alone PROVEN by EVIDENCE.
MRJ
Sandhusker
Well-known member
MRJ said:
In light of the USDA flip-flopping on the border deal, their own assumptions proving themselves wrong, breaking their own rules, ignoring their own preaching, shaky reasoning behind Creekstone, doing an end around on premesis ID, declaring Canada's feed ban effective March 1999, etc... how can you not take anything they say with a pinch of salt?
Mike
Well-known member
USDA investigating cattle sale
ABERDEEN, S.D. (AP) -- The U.S. Department of Agriculture is investigating whether Canadian cattle were bought in a South Dakota sale barn and sold to a packer in Nebraska.
The USDA does not allow selling Canadian cattle on the open market, such as at a livestock sale barn.
Jim Rogers, a USDA spokesman in Washington, D.C., said Friday that the agency is looking into the situation but could not provide details.
According to a news release from the South Dakota Stockgrowers Association, a South Dakota rancher purchased the cattle at an auction barn in South Dakota and sold them to a slaughter plant in Nebraska.
The packers would not pay him for seven head of cattle because, they said, the cattle were from Canada. Seven head of the 87 sold to the packer had Canadian ear tags.
The innards of all 43 head in the same semi, including the disputed seven, were condemned for an estimated loss of $11,000, according to officials with the Stockgrowers Association and the Ranchers-Cattlemen Action Legal Fund. :???: :???:
The USDA allows importing feeder cattle under 30 months of age, but only if they are in sealed trucks transported to an identified feedlot.
"They are then to remain in the identified feedlot until they are hauled to a slaughter plant in a sealed truck," Rick Fox, president of the Stockgrowers Association, said in a news release.
The rancher had purchased the cattle assuming that they were U.S. cattle, Fox said.
Rogers said the USDA wants to make sure no regulations were violated. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sam Holland, South Dakota's state veterinarian, said Friday it appears the cattleman did nothing wrong but somehow wound up with Canadian cattle.
"Many of us are concerned about the way the investigation is being handled," Holland said.
ABERDEEN, S.D. (AP) -- The U.S. Department of Agriculture is investigating whether Canadian cattle were bought in a South Dakota sale barn and sold to a packer in Nebraska.
The USDA does not allow selling Canadian cattle on the open market, such as at a livestock sale barn.
Jim Rogers, a USDA spokesman in Washington, D.C., said Friday that the agency is looking into the situation but could not provide details.
According to a news release from the South Dakota Stockgrowers Association, a South Dakota rancher purchased the cattle at an auction barn in South Dakota and sold them to a slaughter plant in Nebraska.
The packers would not pay him for seven head of cattle because, they said, the cattle were from Canada. Seven head of the 87 sold to the packer had Canadian ear tags.
The innards of all 43 head in the same semi, including the disputed seven, were condemned for an estimated loss of $11,000, according to officials with the Stockgrowers Association and the Ranchers-Cattlemen Action Legal Fund. :???: :???:
The USDA allows importing feeder cattle under 30 months of age, but only if they are in sealed trucks transported to an identified feedlot.
"They are then to remain in the identified feedlot until they are hauled to a slaughter plant in a sealed truck," Rick Fox, president of the Stockgrowers Association, said in a news release.
The rancher had purchased the cattle assuming that they were U.S. cattle, Fox said.
Rogers said the USDA wants to make sure no regulations were violated. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sam Holland, South Dakota's state veterinarian, said Friday it appears the cattleman did nothing wrong but somehow wound up with Canadian cattle.
"Many of us are concerned about the way the investigation is being handled," Holland said.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Mike said:
Kinda makes you wonder when they decided they were Canadian :?
mwj
Well-known member
Maybe the cattle were legal and those evil packers just lied about the tags and got the 7 head and a load of ofal for free :roll: Has anyone found out wether the tags were the oldstyle barcode tags or the tags in use now? Also I would like to point out that the FEEDER DID INDEED BREAK THE LAW. What his intensions were only he has knowlage of. The fact is ignorance is no excuse when the law is violated.
USDA investigating unauthorized sale of Canadian cattle
Monday, January 22, 2007, 4:13 PM
by Peter Shinn
Audio related to this story
Audio related to this story
AUDIO: Interview with Dr. Sam Holland (6 1/2 min MP3).
AUDIO: Interview with Rick Fox (7 1/2 min MP3).
A South Dakota cattleman apparently bought a few dozen calves at a nearby auction barn last year, thinking, naturally, that they were all U.S. cattle. But when he tried to sell them to a Nebraska packing plant last November after feeding them out, the packer refused to pay for seven of them because they had Canadian ear tags. That's the story related in a January 12th press release from the South Dakota Stockgrowers Association (SDSGA).
Canadian cattle aren't supposed to be turning up for sale at auction barns and packers can only by Canadian slaughter cattle under a strict set of rules. USDA is investigating.
One might wonder how anyone could, without noticing, buy calves at auction with Canadian eartags. SDSGA President Rick Fox told Brownfield the cattleman who did so in fact did notice the eartags had the letters "CA" at the top of them, but the cattleman thought the letters stood for "Certified Angus."
In the meantime, Fox said the cattleman lost as much as $12,000.00 when he tried to sell them. And Fox said it's still not clear how the cattleman will be made whole or who will do it.
"That's first and foremost on our list of concerns is we want him paid," Fox said. "So far there's no money that has been paid to him yet, and who would pay him?" Fox queried. "Would it be the packing plant? Would it be the USDA? Would it be the producer that sold these cattle in the sale barn?"
Fox said that's a question he wants the ongoing USDA investigation of the incident to answer. In the meantime, South Dakota state veterinarian Dr. Sam Holland told Brownfield he's not happy with the lack of information coming from USDA about its investigation, even though he's sympathetic about the monumental task USDA faces in trying to trace the Canadian cattle.
According to Holland, USDA will have to try and match the nine-digit numbers on the ear tags to the individual health certificates of literally hundreds of thousands of Canadian cattle that have been imported into the U.S. over the past year. Holland said that's because USDA has no real way of tracking Canadian cattle quickly after they enter the U.S.
"There's no database that was maintained," Holland explained. "Those animals aren't required to be accounted for and inventories reconciled once they're in the United States."
Holland said he urged USDA in public comments to ensure there's a system to track all imported cattle after they enter America, but USDA hasn't made such traceability a requirement. And Holland emphasized the incident involving the South Dakota cattleman poses no threat to human or animal health, since it involved otherwise healthy young animals. But he said that may not be the case in future situations involving imported animals. And as it stands now, Holland said the U.S. can track imported animals only with great difficulty.
As for the case of the seven slaughter cattle rejected by the Nebraska packing plant, Holland said it might turn out that the packing itself may have made a mistake about the origin of rejected cattle. "The first place to look if it involves fat cattle at a slaughter plant is, could the mix-up have occurred right there?" he asked. "To go out there and say, you know, these cattle originated and went through some auction market, the investigation will determine that, but it sure isn't fact to my knowledge."
Monday, January 22, 2007, 4:13 PM
by Peter Shinn
Audio related to this story
Audio related to this story
AUDIO: Interview with Dr. Sam Holland (6 1/2 min MP3).
AUDIO: Interview with Rick Fox (7 1/2 min MP3).
A South Dakota cattleman apparently bought a few dozen calves at a nearby auction barn last year, thinking, naturally, that they were all U.S. cattle. But when he tried to sell them to a Nebraska packing plant last November after feeding them out, the packer refused to pay for seven of them because they had Canadian ear tags. That's the story related in a January 12th press release from the South Dakota Stockgrowers Association (SDSGA).
Canadian cattle aren't supposed to be turning up for sale at auction barns and packers can only by Canadian slaughter cattle under a strict set of rules. USDA is investigating.
One might wonder how anyone could, without noticing, buy calves at auction with Canadian eartags. SDSGA President Rick Fox told Brownfield the cattleman who did so in fact did notice the eartags had the letters "CA" at the top of them, but the cattleman thought the letters stood for "Certified Angus."
In the meantime, Fox said the cattleman lost as much as $12,000.00 when he tried to sell them. And Fox said it's still not clear how the cattleman will be made whole or who will do it.
"That's first and foremost on our list of concerns is we want him paid," Fox said. "So far there's no money that has been paid to him yet, and who would pay him?" Fox queried. "Would it be the packing plant? Would it be the USDA? Would it be the producer that sold these cattle in the sale barn?"
Fox said that's a question he wants the ongoing USDA investigation of the incident to answer. In the meantime, South Dakota state veterinarian Dr. Sam Holland told Brownfield he's not happy with the lack of information coming from USDA about its investigation, even though he's sympathetic about the monumental task USDA faces in trying to trace the Canadian cattle.
According to Holland, USDA will have to try and match the nine-digit numbers on the ear tags to the individual health certificates of literally hundreds of thousands of Canadian cattle that have been imported into the U.S. over the past year. Holland said that's because USDA has no real way of tracking Canadian cattle quickly after they enter the U.S.
"There's no database that was maintained," Holland explained. "Those animals aren't required to be accounted for and inventories reconciled once they're in the United States."
Holland said he urged USDA in public comments to ensure there's a system to track all imported cattle after they enter America, but USDA hasn't made such traceability a requirement. And Holland emphasized the incident involving the South Dakota cattleman poses no threat to human or animal health, since it involved otherwise healthy young animals. But he said that may not be the case in future situations involving imported animals. And as it stands now, Holland said the U.S. can track imported animals only with great difficulty.
As for the case of the seven slaughter cattle rejected by the Nebraska packing plant, Holland said it might turn out that the packing itself may have made a mistake about the origin of rejected cattle. "The first place to look if it involves fat cattle at a slaughter plant is, could the mix-up have occurred right there?" he asked. "To go out there and say, you know, these cattle originated and went through some auction market, the investigation will determine that, but it sure isn't fact to my knowledge."
don
Well-known member
dr. holland: And Holland emphasized the incident involving the South Dakota cattleman poses no threat to human or animal health, since it involved otherwise healthy young animals.
kind of blows the crap out of ot's bleating about health issues and canadian cooperation.
kind of blows the crap out of ot's bleating about health issues and canadian cooperation.
TimH
Well-known member
"Nine digit" tells me that these were the old "dangle" barcode tags. The RFID button tags we have to use now, have 15 digit numbers on them.
The styleized "CA" on those tags was surrounded by a Maple Leaf emblem.......... say's "Certified Angus" to me....... :roll:
I find this story very interesting. There are several explanations....
1) Since there appears to have been no hot-iron "CAN" brand, the cattle somehow crossed the border without it. (illegal)
2) They were strays or stolen, and somehow ended up in a SD sale barn.(illegal)
3) As the article suggests, there was a mix up at the slaughter plant.
4) Someone south of the 49th, got ahold of some CCIA tags and put them in the cattle.(doesn't make much sense unless you like being out the price of 7 fats)
I'm sure there are other scenarios. I'm gonna stay tuned.
A
Anonymous
Guest
don said:
But why was the border closed? Why was a quarantine/border closure put on Canadian cattle? Why is CFIA required to preg check, inspect and seal all trucks? Why are those trucks supposed to travel sealed to a lot where the cattle remain segregated until they are again inspected and transported by sealed truck to a slaughter house?....Why is the meat from these cattle kept segregated?
Because of this same BSE border quarantine...
Yep Holland wants everyone to feel hunky dory and doesn't want to upset consumer demand- same reason the USDA calls the border closure a rule instead of a quarantine-- but it still is a quarantine....
Canadian cattle have been quarantined from the US because of BSE- and these cattle are in violation of this quarantine.....
Canada wants to play semantics/definitions games-- USDA has no record keeping system for cattle entering :roll:
Looks like the only answer the US cattleman has to protect the US cattle herd is to close the border down until they both get their ducks in a roll.....
TimH
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Pssst?? Hey Deputy Dick?? Shhhhhhh!!! BSE has been detected in native USA cattle as well. Comprende?? Keep it under your hat(next to your point) :wink:
PS; It's "ducks in a row" not "roll". Ducks in a roll is a fowl sandwich, basicly.
A
Anonymous
Guest
TimH said:PS; It's "ducks in a row" not "roll". Ducks in a roll is a fowl sandwich, basicly.
Thank you- but that might be the best description of this whole thing- "a foul sandwich" :roll:
Looks like Canadians don't care about/take seriously the border rules/quarantine--looks like USDA don't care about/take seriously the border rules/quarantine.....And the US cattleman is the one that has been told a talltale and led down a yellow brick road......
TimH
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:TimH said:PS; It's "ducks in a row" not "roll". Ducks in a roll is a fowl sandwich, basicly.
Thank you- but that might be the best description of this whole thing- "a foul sandwich" :roll:
Looks like Canadians don't care about/take seriously the border rules/quarantine--looks like USDA don't care about/take seriously the border rules/quarantine.....And the US cattleman is the one that has been told a talltale and led down a yellow brick road......
Do or say what you like, Oldtimer, but I think I'll wait for all the facts to come out about who(if anyone) broke the law, before I start pointing fingers.
It could very easily turn out that it is an American that doesn't "care about/take seriously the border rules/quarantine". I don't think that it is apparent, at this point, where the fault lies.
Sound fair to you?????
A
Anonymous
Guest
TimH said:Oldtimer said:TimH said:PS; It's "ducks in a row" not "roll". Ducks in a roll is a fowl sandwich, basicly.
Thank you- but that might be the best description of this whole thing- "a foul sandwich" :roll:
Looks like Canadians don't care about/take seriously the border rules/quarantine--looks like USDA don't care about/take seriously the border rules/quarantine.....And the US cattleman is the one that has been told a talltale and led down a yellow brick road......
Do or say what you like, Oldtimer, but I think I'll wait for all the facts to come out about who(if anyone) broke the law, before I start pointing fingers.
It could very easily turn out that it is an American that doesn't "care about/take seriously the border rules/quarantine". I don't think that it is apparent, at this point, where the fault lies.
Sound fair to you?????
I agree it could be anything- but there is a violation anyway you look at it- alledged Canadian cattle were found outside the allowed quarantine regulations....Thats what makes this USDA officials statement so laughable- and an early indication of their wish that they could go take a nap or crawl under a stone and this would all go away...
And it isn't going to be allowed to go away....I had the opportunity to talk with a person connected to the Dept of Livestock- and a NCBAer that informed me there have been several complaints to USDA over their inability/laxity in overseeing the live cattle import rules before this- and that this now is just magnifying the issue- while casting a blacker cloud over the Rule 2 implementation....
TimH
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
"Just the facts, Dick Tracy, Just the facts". Sound fair, Mr. Lawman??? Does "casting a blacker cloud " appear anywhere in any legal statute?
Kato
Well-known member
Been away for a few days, and this thread took forever to read. :shock:
The more I read the more I think that's there's something fishy here. How can it be a "monumental" task to trace seven head of calves? The guy obviously knows where he bought them, since he's blaming an auction mart.
Why are no charges being laid? I'm sure if there was a criminal investigation going on, and the USDA asked the CFIA to tell them when the cattle crossed the border, and where they were headed for they would get the information. It's not necessary to name the farm of origin for that, especially since this illegal activity did not take place in Canada. Tag numbers are retired when the cattle cross the border, and the date they went over is right in the file. I know this because it used to be my job to retire numbers on fat cattle that were sent down for slaughter.
As for OT's claim that the USDA vets don't inspect the cattle, he's obviously never been at the border when they crossed over. :shock: :shock: I saw a whole load of fats get turned back because the person who filled in the form marked the heifers as H for heifer, instead of F for female! Now an inspector who is that anal is not exactly the kind of person who's not going to look in the truck is she?
These inspectors will climb right into a truck full of feeder pigs, and check all their ear tattoos, and think nothing of making a truck with 400 sheep unload so they can read every single ear tag. I know it for a fact, because I made out the export papers on that sheep load! I didn't make out the papers on the H for heifer load though!
I would bet the CFIA has contacted the original owner of the tags, but probably to make sure they weren't stolen.
The more I read the more I think that's there's something fishy here. How can it be a "monumental" task to trace seven head of calves? The guy obviously knows where he bought them, since he's blaming an auction mart.
Why are no charges being laid? I'm sure if there was a criminal investigation going on, and the USDA asked the CFIA to tell them when the cattle crossed the border, and where they were headed for they would get the information. It's not necessary to name the farm of origin for that, especially since this illegal activity did not take place in Canada. Tag numbers are retired when the cattle cross the border, and the date they went over is right in the file. I know this because it used to be my job to retire numbers on fat cattle that were sent down for slaughter.
As for OT's claim that the USDA vets don't inspect the cattle, he's obviously never been at the border when they crossed over. :shock: :shock: I saw a whole load of fats get turned back because the person who filled in the form marked the heifers as H for heifer, instead of F for female! Now an inspector who is that anal is not exactly the kind of person who's not going to look in the truck is she?
These inspectors will climb right into a truck full of feeder pigs, and check all their ear tattoos, and think nothing of making a truck with 400 sheep unload so they can read every single ear tag. I know it for a fact, because I made out the export papers on that sheep load! I didn't make out the papers on the H for heifer load though!
I would bet the CFIA has contacted the original owner of the tags, but probably to make sure they weren't stolen.
Sandy
Well-known member
I think if you Americans are going to come up here and steal cattle, you might want to cut out the ID tags before you try and sell them down there. Me thinks the name of this gang might be Dumb and Dumber.
Sandy,I dont think an American would be that dumb,probably gonna find out it was a canuckle head that snuck em across the border,to dumb or lazy to remove the tags just comingled them with some American stock probably on a weekend and slipped them into a sale barn,and it would not be the first canuckle head we have caught south of the quaratine line with contraband cattle.................good luck
PS I think this is a dang shame to happen when the USDA is in a comment period on allowing more classes of canadian cattle into the US market. Some canucks just are hard headed :wink:
PS I think this is a dang shame to happen when the USDA is in a comment period on allowing more classes of canadian cattle into the US market. Some canucks just are hard headed :wink:
Kato
Well-known member
Not stolen cattle, stolen TAGS! :shock: