USDA Couldn't Track Their Own Shadow!!!

[don]

i think if/when usda can point to something fishy going on north of the border they will be real quick to lay blame because otherwise they are the ones on the spot. that's why i think it's south of the border where they are having trouble. the longer this goes on the more it looks like it's either stolen tags or cattle smuggled in. the funniest would be if the tags were bought by some twenty acre lowline rancher and the tags were in some big old simmentals that dna tested to sd.

 

[HAY MAKER]

i think if/when usda can point to something fishy going on north of the border they will be real quick to lay blame because otherwise they are the ones on the spot. that's why i think it's south of the border where they are having trouble. the longer this goes on the more it looks like it's either stolen tags or cattle smuggled in. the funniest would be if the tags were bought by some twenty acre lowline rancher and the tags were in some big old simmentals that dna tested to sd.

Maybe you are right,why aint that information in the saskatchewan head lines ?lemme guess 11 days aint enough time ta krank up the super sonic IDer ...................good luck

 

[don]

bad guess. the american non-system can't trace the animals back to the border. maybe they aren't canadian cattle.

 

[HAY MAKER]

bad guess. the american non-system can't trace the animals back to the border. maybe they aren't canadian cattle.

Again............get the canadian tags to the appropiate canadian officials,with your super sonic IDer we will know the particulars and take appropiate action,we readily admitt we do not have a system to track imports,its a slow and tedious process................good luck
PS now would be a good time for canada to show off the super sonic IDer ?

 

[don]

maybe canada already knows what happened but until you show a health issue the information should remain confidential. maybe this is usda's way of showing it needs nais because the american system (or lack thereof) is so deficient!! the longer it takes the more it looks like somebody down there (south of 49) is crooked. maybe homeland security has a border guard on the take? maybe there is no rhyme nor reason to those tags showing up down there?? i think usda has lots of questions to address and you might not like the answers.

 

[HAY MAKER]

maybe canada already knows what happened but until you show a health issue the information should remain confidential. maybe this is usda's way of showing it needs nais because the american system (or lack thereof) is so deficient!! the longer it takes the more it looks like somebody down there (south of 49) is crooked. maybe homeland security has a border guard on the take? maybe there is no rhyme nor reason to those tags showing up down there?? i think usda has lots of questions to address and you might not like the answers.

Maybe...........it's the secrecy that bother's me,I would think there has been ample time to release some detail................good luck

 

[don]

confidentiality is one of the virtues of the system. information is only released if a health or safety issue becomes apparent and then only to the people who need to know. you wouldn't participate in a system that didn't protect your interests and without producer participation the system doesn't exist. i wouldn't be surprised if usda has been given some information but for some reason rick fox isn't on the inside of this one! if this could have been pinned on someone in canada it would have happened by now because usda doesn't need the heat. if the tags were, in fact, stolen then usda will want to nail the crook because that would be a major fraud in an attempt to discredit the whole system.

 

[Anonymous]

maybe canada already knows what happened but until you show a health issue the information should remain confidential. maybe this is usda's way of showing it needs nais because the american system (or lack thereof) is so deficient!! the longer it takes the more it looks like somebody down there (south of 49) is crooked. maybe homeland security has a border guard on the take? maybe there is no rhyme nor reason to those tags showing up down there?? i think usda has lots of questions to address and you might not like the answers.

You may be right don- but we don't have a National ID and won't for years- USDA's new ID man Bruce Knight, just got thru meeting with the new Senate Ag Committee Chairman (a pro mandatory ID man) and asked him not to propose a law, because USDA has found that the technology and their proposed ID plan is not yet suitable to work in a market climate at the speed of commerce without excessive hardship and cost....IF (and to me thats a big IF) a National ID is the answer, it will take years to set up...

USDA/CFIA's inability to track these cattle show the system is flawed and unworkable....Much of the selling point USDA used to cattlemen and Congress to get them to support the Border rule as we have it was that the cattle would have the Canadian ID for traceability- but now Canada says it doesn't recognize our quarantine as a health issue, so will not assist us- which removes that safety barrier from the Rule...USDA now has also shown and admitted they have no database to back track these cattle efficiently -even if they came across legally.... :roll:

Now that we are aware of a flawed system and without these safeguards in effect do you think US cattlemen and the Congress will or even should support the US Rule 2 proposal to allow in older cattle and breeding stock that will have free roam of the country.... :???:

It would be in the best interest of every Canadian cattlemen if they were contacting the CFIA folks to express their wishes that the CFIA cooperate in every way possible with the USDA and help the USDA to get some sound answers........Without sound credible answers, Rule 2 is dead.....

 

[Sandhusker]

Don, "confidentiality is one of the virtues of the system. information is only released if a health or safety issue becomes apparent and then only to the people who need to know"

Confidentiality only goes so far when you're investigating a crime.

 

[don]

you're right and r-calf is not one of the investigating bodies is it? heck, most of the people on here don't want their identities known; why don't you demand full disclosure? i doubt a retired sheriff in montana or a bank janitor in nebraska is on the need to know list for this matter. why don't you find out what's going and who committed the criminal actions down there? keep shining the light on canada if you want but the stink is probably in south dakota. maybe if you had some sort of viable id system you wouldn't have to rely on canadian information to prop up your investigation.

 

[Bill]

WHAT AN ABSOLUTE JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Here we have the group of R-Klowns who run babbling to various chat sites as the biggest opponents of any kind of ID or tracking system that would hold any American producer accountable for their actions. Now they are whining and crying..whahhhhhhhh because Canada won't use their system to once again rescue them.

In fact Sadhusker writes:

Confidentiality only goes so far when you're investigating a crime.

.........but ..but.... American producers shouldn't be held accountable because well........because we can't trust what that information will be used for!!!!!!!!!!!

Once again HYPOCRICY AT ITS FINEST!

 

[Bill]

you're right and r-calf is not one of the investigating bodies is it? heck, most of the people on here don't want their identities known; why don't you demand full disclosure? i doubt a retired sheriff in montana or a bank janitor in nebraska is on the need to know list for this matter. why don't you find out what's going and who committed the criminal actions down there? keep shining the light on canada if you want but the stink is probably in south dakota. maybe if you had some sort of viable id system you wouldn't have to rely on canadian information to prop up your investigation.

Sandhusker is the JANIITOR???????????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That explains a lot!

 

[Anonymous]

Don, "confidentiality is one of the virtues of the system. information is only released if a health or safety issue becomes apparent and then only to the people who need to know"

Confidentiality only goes so far when you're investigating a crime.

You know that was the comedy of the US proposed National ID- the privacy issue and USDA's attempt to promise absolute privacy...

Now they may have been able to get a law or in a private database to remove it from being open viewing under the FOIA but there is no way they could close it off from access of the courts, without a Constitutional admendment- which they wouldn't get...

It doesn't matter who has the data- government agency or private company-- if a crime has been committed or there can be shown government has a compelling reason- the info is available to the courts/law enforcement thru Investigative Subpeonas and/or Search Warrant...

Not even the President is above court subpeona power which was shown in/ and almost became huge constitutional issues with both Nixon and Clinton ..... Also this year it was shown that nowhere is free from search warrant authority either- when the FBI searched the US Congress offices of Congressman Jefferson...Congress whined and screamed- screamed foul--said they were going to pass laws- but then found they would have to change the Constitution....

If this had been in the US, with the NAIS that USDA had proposed, since a crime/violation has been committed they could have subpeonaed the info long ago....

But now we are dealing with a foreign nation-- which shows the complete fallacy of the system if we have to go before a world court every time the USDA asks to access some information.... :roll:

 

[don]

mostly what's been shown is that you have no id or traceback system and if this truly is a health issue (and you're one of the few who believes it is) then i would think this should convince you of the folly of r-calf's stance on traceback. i'm sure r-calf would fight tooth and nail if you exactly reversed this situation and canadian ranchers were telling the american govt. to spill the beans. the hypocricy of you and your buddies is truly amazing. i'm astonished at how you humble yourself and say the most incredible crap just to toe the r-calf line. with every conflicting statement r-calf issues now you and sandhusker look dumber as you try to defend the inconsistent line of crap that spews from r-calf.

 

[S.S.A.P.]

CFIA does not have access to the CCIA (Canadian Cattlemans Identification Agency ) database.

NO ONE (I'll repeat for OT, Sandhusker, and Hay Maker) NO ONE has access or will until a reportable disease is directly connected to an unique # of an ID tagged animal - it is then submitted to the CFIA. When an investigation is initiated the CFIA (and only the CFIA) has the privilege of database information (name/contact) connected to that tag ID number.

The virtues of the Canadian ID system .... confidentiality. The program is an industry initiated and established trace back system designed for the containment and eradication of animal disease.

"Misplaced", healthy, young animals involved in a US criminal investigation are not acceptable conditions under the rules, regulations and laws of Canada which the Canadian Cattleman's ID system is mandated under.

When the USDA submits to the CFIA a positive test result of a "reportable" animal disease for any one of these seven "healthy" animals an investigation in Canada will be initiated.

• Oldtimer, Sandhusker & Hay Maker - have you found the part (clause) in the US cattle import rule regarding "misplaced" healthy animals, that commits the CFIA to release this confidential information to a USDA criminal investigation?

 

[HAY MAKER]

CFIA does not have access to the CCIA (Canadian Cattlemans Identification Agency ) database.

NO ONE (I'll repeat for OT, Sandhusker, and Hay Maker) NO ONE has access or will until a reportable disease is directly connected to an unique # of an ID tagged animal - it is then submitted to the CFIA. When an investigation is initiated the CFIA (and only the CFIA) has the privilege of database information (name/contact) connected to that tag ID number.

The virtues of the Canadian ID system .... confidentiality. The program is an industry initiated and established trace back system designed for the containment and eradication of animal disease.

"Misplaced", healthy, young animals involved in a US criminal investigation are not acceptable conditions under the rules, regulations and laws of Canada which the Canadian Cattleman's ID system is mandated under.

When the USDA submits to the CFIA a positive test result of a "reportable" animal disease for any one of these seven "healthy" animals an investigation in Canada will be initiated.

• Oldtimer, Sandhusker & Hay Maker - have you found the part (clause) in the US cattle import rule regarding "misplaced" healthy animals, that commits the CFIA to release this confidential information to a USDA criminal investigation?

SSAP,I believe its obvious,canada has no way of tracking these cattle either.
Allowing more cattle especially OTM cattle south of the 49th, is going to be a hard sale with no one having the capability of tracing them.
With the health and noncompliance feed ban violations in canada recently,and no means of tracking, I think OTM's crossing the 49th is wishful thinking............good luck
PS I never said there was a clause in the import regulations regarding misplaced healthy cattle.Is that what you would call them...........healthy misplaced

 

[Sandhusker]

Say we did have a traceback system, do you really think those calves would of been registered? They're not supposed to be here. I'm sure whoever is responsible for bringing them over the line knows that. It would be like committing a crime using a gun registered to you.

 

[Anonymous]

According to Holland, USDA will have to try and match the nine-digit numbers on the ear tags to the individual health certificates of literally hundreds of thousands of Canadian cattle that have been imported into the U.S. over the past year. Holland said that's because USDA has no real way of tracking Canadian cattle quickly after they enter the U.S.

"There's no database that was maintained," Holland explained. "Those animals aren't required to be accounted for and inventories reconciled once they're in the United States."

SSAP-Well USDA has just admitted and have shown that they have no system to keep track of the Canadian cattle entering the US-- so without access to the Canadian system as a backup- they can't track them.....

Do you really believe the US cattleman and Congress will support USDA's policy expanding this rule to older cattle and breeding cattle that will be allowed free roam?

A Rule that could not only endanger the US cattle herd health and the long term economic viability of the US cattle industry, but would also endanger our exports thru the BEV program and some of the markets we are just trying to get back since the Washington cow.....

NO WAY.....

 

[S.S.A.P.]

According to Holland, USDA will have to try and match the nine-digit numbers on the ear tags to the individual health certificates of literally hundreds of thousands of Canadian cattle that have been imported into the U.S. over the past year. Holland said that's because USDA has no real way of tracking Canadian cattle quickly after they enter the U.S.

"There's no database that was maintained," Holland explained. "Those animals aren't required to be accounted for and inventories reconciled once they're in the United States."

SSAP-Well USDA has just admitted and have shown that they have no system to keep track of the Canadian cattle entering the US-- so without access to the Canadian system as a backup- they can't track them.....

Do you really believe the US cattleman and Congress will support USDA's policy expanding this rule to older cattle and breeding cattle that will be allowed free roam?

A Rule that could not only endanger the US cattle herd health and the long term economic viability of the US cattle industry, but would also endanger our exports thru the BEV program and some of the markets we are just trying to get back since the Washington cow.....

NO WAY.....

They have a system (just not a quick one according to a SD vet) - didn't you just copy and paste that they have "individual" health certificates with nine-digit numbers on them.

Those 'health certificates' are duplicate those in Canadian files.

 

[Anonymous]

According to Holland, USDA will have to try and match the nine-digit numbers on the ear tags to the individual health certificates of literally hundreds of thousands of Canadian cattle that have been imported into the U.S. over the past year. Holland said that's because USDA has no real way of tracking Canadian cattle quickly after they enter the U.S.

"There's no database that was maintained," Holland explained. "Those animals aren't required to be accounted for and inventories reconciled once they're in the United States."

SSAP-Well USDA has just admitted and have shown that they have no system to keep track of the Canadian cattle entering the US-- so without access to the Canadian system as a backup- they can't track them.....

Do you really believe the US cattleman and Congress will support USDA's policy expanding this rule to older cattle and breeding cattle that will be allowed free roam?

A Rule that could not only endanger the US cattle herd health and the long term economic viability of the US cattle industry, but would also endanger our exports thru the BEV program and some of the markets we are just trying to get back since the Washington cow.....

NO WAY.....

They have a system (just not a quick one according to a SD vet) - didn't you just copy and paste that they have "individual" health certificates with nine-digit numbers on them.

Those 'health certificates' are duplicate those in Canadian files.

SSAP- Its been 1 month and 24 days since the animals were found- and all indications are that they still know nothing.....

They're going to have to do better than that-- thats totally unacceptable....

As Haymaker told Tam--Good luck- you're going to need it :wink: :lol: :lol: