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utra sound

http://www.lightlivestockequipment.com/UltraSound.asp

Get the check book out and go to it. Over time if a man is checking his own it would pay for itself. But not for the hobby farmer.
 
i went a couple years once without preg-checking to cut down on some expenses, but i always had an uneasy feeling about it...so i went back to PGing. the bill from the vet is not fun to pay, but if you have one open cow, which is almost garenteed, haul her to town and she should cover the vet bill, or a good portion of it. that way if a person had a wreck for what ever reason, you know of it in the fall and can plan accordingly.
 
hillsdown said:
Justin said:
DejaVu said:
There are several other benefits to ultrasounding. The vet saves what is left of his shoulder...a problem in my area with several of them being older ex-team ropers. That alone is a bad combination :lol: Probably the most valid reason to ultra-sound is, it's less intrusive. What is the percentage of fetal death to pregchecking? Isn't it 2-3 out of 100? It's proven there is a loss.
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2-3% death loss from arming the cows.....really? :? :???:
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Wrong.......

Get a new vet.....We have ours preg checked always and have never had a cow abort or resorb because of it. I am sure this myth was started by the cheapies that refuse to check their cattle. We have had 10's of thousands safely preg checked over the years from 28 days to 6-8 months.

Preg checking at 5 dollars a head is way cheaper than feeding an open cow for 3-5 months. You watch for cycling cows? What about the ones that are open and do not cycle.

Preg checking is a must if you want to make a profit in this industry.
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Who is to say it's wrong?? I have experienced a 1% loss by arming them two years running after many years with no problem. It does happen.
WR's system works just fine too in some situations - we have done exactly that in recent years. Wean now and it's almost like a synchro program with the opens cycling. Once they have cycled twice on regular cycles I would be confident to ship them. It worked well when we were holding cows into the winter to market at hopefully higher prices. We seemed to miss one each year out of 120-130 cows so I guess I was well ahead wintering that extra open cow versus preg checking the whole lot.
I really hate it when the "experts" say you "need" to preg check, a vet "has" to manually pregcheck as it's the only way to know ... well actually it isn't. I know one tremendous stockman in Scotland with a 140 cow herd who pulled around 10 head a year for the vet to check - usually one of them was pregnant but this guy only missed one open in 10 years. I remember one year I was there and the vet said "how did you pick this one she hasn't been cycling?" His reply was - she just looked open. Don't underestimate the powers of some peoples observation.
 
I have a dairy background and it was a high producing herd so preg checking was a must. It definitely pays to have a really good vet involved with your herd. BTW Canadian dairies are not in the same shape as the rest of the world.. Yet..

I also have expensive flush cattle that I breed back , I need these preg checked as time is a factor and all are AI'd only. In times of drought where feed is limited and at an outrageous price, you need to preg check. feeding one open cow over a long cold winter may send you out of business.

GF either your vet was too aggressive or your cows would have resorbed or aborted probably anyways. I have heard of vets or people in general not knowing what they are doing and causing damage to the fetus that is why I said get a different vet. Just like you here horror stories of people AI'ing and ruining good cattle. There is a reason a good LA vet is hard to find , it takes hard work and dedication to become one.

If you do not know whetehr a cow is bred or open you are leaving money on the table and in this day we need every penny we can get.

If you can check yourself all the better. I like when our vet comes out for herd health we make a day of it, we work all the cows and calves and then we spend the rest of the day having a few drinks and BS'ing we all look forward to it each year. Also his wife usually drives to our place later and we BBQ great home raised beef. I guess maybe I am biased because of the relationship and friendship we have had with our vet for 15 years.
If he decides that we need to switch from manually to ultra sound then that is what we will do. He is an honest vet who always has our cattle as well as our profit margin in the best interests. He is also one that will say don't waste your money even though he would gain from it.

Herd health this year found everyone heavy bred EXCEPT my best and favorite flush cow. I AI'd her in April after seeing a strong heat and she never came into heat again. I knew for sure she was pregnant and was soo looking forward to her cal, I used some very very expensive semen on her. I cried, I mean really cried when he checked her and not only was she open but had completely quit cycling, she hir menopause, granted she was 15 years old but I sure loved that gal. She was super smart and gentle and I made a pretty penny on her calves and embryos. Had I not preg checked she would still be in my herd eating valuable pasture and I would be waiting for her to make an udder come the beginning of January.
 
Hillsdown said "In times of drought where feed is limited and at an outrageous price, you need to preg check. feeding one open cow over a long cold winter may send you out of business."

So does getting your sums wrong.

Here was my experience - "It worked well when we were holding cows into the winter to market at hopefully higher prices. We seemed to miss one each year out of 120-130 cows so I guess I was well ahead wintering that extra open cow versus preg checking the whole lot."

130 x $3 = $390. I've never spent that winter feeding a cow yet.
 
Typically fall is the lowest market for cull cows in my area, but generally starts picking up in early spring. For example, I looked up my own personal cull cow receipts from fall 2007/spring 2008 (I didn't sell any personal culls for the fall 2008/spring 2009 time frame for comparison, or I would've used that as an example instead), and found my cull cows averaged 8 cents higher from culls I marketed the previous fall (approximately $100/head). I also looked up and found I've missed detecting an average of four head of opens per year over a six year average.

If I took time to calculate feed costs to feed four additional head, four additional months, vs the cost to pregnancy test the entire herd to detect an average of four additional opens over the years, I'd say I'm still money ahead to not preg check, especially if they appreciated in a spring market. If I were missing a lot more cows, that may not be the case. Maybe I'll do the math on a ten year average for fall vs spring cull cows prices and feed costs during the next snowstorm :shock: .

Yes, I have had one cow in six years not cycle. Veterinarians aren't 100% accurate either. She was sold during the June market, which is typically the highest cull cow market of the year in my area.

For now I can't justify spending the money or time pregnancy testing the entire herd to find a handful of opens. Like I previously stated, if I had a bunch coming into heat, I'd certainly be checking them. If I had cheaper winter feed costs, some years I would strongly consider holding my culls over until spring. Cull cows are an important part of revenue which should be marketed maximally as well. It's easy to just ship them every fall, but is that always smart?

I look through my cattle often during the fall, and detecting possible opens is convenient to do at that time. Also, I'm not looking after a large herd. It certainly isn't justifiable for everyone, but it has worked for me.
 
good post WR....
for the larger outfits(i'm not saying i'm one of them), i think PGing in the fall is a must. cows scattered all over hell, and the boss probably doesn't see many of the cows and who ever is feeding them may not pay attention or care. for the smaller herds, i completely understand WR reasons. i've just told myself several years ago that if a cow isn't going to give me a calf in the spring someone else can feed her...
right, wrong.... :? whatever floats your boat, i guess.
 
It the unit never broke down I could pay for it by savings. I can expense the vet instead of depreciating the equipment. He is one more helping hand. He is a teaching vet so sometimes he brings tech and vet students to help. He brought 2 helpers this time. He also had a set of goggles to wear that had a virtual reality screen. He didn't use it with us though as we were enjoying the monitor and I missed getting a pic.
 
Justin said:
good post WR....
for the larger outfits(i'm not saying i'm one of them), i think PGing in the fall is a must. cows scattered all over hell, and the boss probably doesn't see many of the cows and who ever is feeding them may not pay attention or care. for the smaller herds, i completely understand WR reasons. i've just told myself several years ago that if a cow isn't going to give me a calf in the spring someone else can feed her...
right, wrong.... :? whatever floats your boat, i guess.
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I agree with you too. In many of the large herds I've seen, they have a year brand, and that's it. So identifying and shipping, if not at least separating the opens would be necessary. I can't imagine feeding them the same as the breds if they did plan to keep them awhile before selling.

One other thing, I'm less than an hour away from the sale barn. I can haul a load down if needed about anytime (well if the snow isn't too deep :lol: ). For larger herds, or herds which are hours away from a place to market, I can see the need to clean house in the fall and not look back :D .
 
Grassfarmer said:
Hillsdown said "In times of drought where feed is limited and at an outrageous price, you need to preg check. feeding one open cow over a long cold winter may send you out of business."

So does getting your sums wrong.

Here was my experience - "It worked well when we were holding cows into the winter to market at hopefully higher prices. We seemed to miss one each year out of 120-130 cows so I guess I was well ahead wintering that extra open cow versus preg checking the whole lot."

130 x $3 = $390. I've never spent that winter feeding a cow yet.
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You need to get a better calculator.. :wink:
 
hillsdown said:
Grassfarmer said:
Hillsdown said "In times of drought where feed is limited and at an outrageous price, you need to preg check. feeding one open cow over a long cold winter may send you out of business."

So does getting your sums wrong.

Here was my experience - "It worked well when we were holding cows into the winter to market at hopefully higher prices. We seemed to miss one each year out of 120-130 cows so I guess I was well ahead wintering that extra open cow versus preg checking the whole lot."

130 x $3 = $390. I've never spent that winter feeding a cow yet.
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You need to get a better calculator.. :wink:
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Why does yours reckon 130 x $3 comes to something other than $390 :???:
 
McGee213288 said:
:roll: ..Our vet want 10 bux a head..How much does the unit cost??
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I asked what the unit cost. $7,000 CAN including the goggles etc. Sorry I didn't get the brand. If you are still wanting to know I will give him a call.
 
Some pretty rich outfits up here just ship every cow that isn't wet at branding-cleans up your drys, your cows that lost calves etc-your selling into usually a pretty good market. As for not being able to winter a dry cow and make money-there are outfits that make their living doing that. We usually preg our cows too but the world wouldn't end if we quit it.
 
Well we had the vet in on Monday preg checking the old fashioned way - he was the quickest I've ever seen doing close to 90/hour. Only preg checked because I am trading a few back and forth with a friend and we had to be sure. Only picked up a couple I didn't know about already that were open. 6.5% open in the cows, about the norm for me - none of them cows of any merit sure won't be missed. The vet is promising to get a scanner for next year - he was quoting $17,000 I think :shock: :shock:
 
Grassfarmer said:
Well we had the vet in on Monday preg checking the old fashioned way - he was the quickest I've ever seen doing close to 90/hour. Only preg checked because I am trading a few back and forth with a friend and we had to be sure. Only picked up a couple I didn't know about already that were open. 6.5% open in the cows, about the norm for me - none of them cows of any merit sure won't be missed. The vet is promising to get a scanner for next year - he was quoting $17,000 I think :shock: :shock:
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He just wants to charge you more. You can buy a good used Aloka with software for under $10,000 on Ebay, or even get a unit used with full carcass software for around that price.
:D
We preg check occasionally, and I do most of it on my own. I am definitely not skilled enough to pick up early pregnancies, but later ones are pretty easy. With wintering costs around $0.67 per day for most of the winter, it usually pays us to keep those cows to a better market unless we are short of feed. We typically end up checking late second trimester cows in March/April if we think we are going to run short on rainfall.
 
I could probably muddle through my own-but after spending most summers A'I'ing cows I'm not going to spend deer season at the same end. Our vet is quick and accurate way more than I'd ever be.
 
I like to know and keep the empties separate feed them hard if necessary and sell when it looks appropriate. This year feed is in short supply and soft price or not it is destock time. Match the feed supplies with the cow numbers. No appetite for bringing in outside weeds and spending cash to go long on a promise. Maybe I am just getting to old and not thinking right.
 

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