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Volume III(my type of cattle)

Doug Thorson

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Messages
667
Location
western SD
CopyofR01.jpg

a cow that bag scores a 9

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one with an 8

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a fine looking cow with a 7 bag, but due to past performance her calf got cut. But her calf still gets the really "cool" brand! 8)

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and one with a 6

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and one with a 5

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this cow's calf got cut due to her bag. score it a 4

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this 2 bag gets to go into the cull pen
 
I'm not quite so exact on udders they get a U+, U- or just an ave. U. It takes alot to get a U+ score in the calf book. The U+'s we A'I to raise our own bulls from the U-'s get bred South Devon or high growth Angus-I gotta get rid of that GT Max semen somewhere lol-they all get fed out. To be honest I'd have a bit of trouble giving that top cow a 9 her rear suspension could be a bit better in my opinion. Your cows look like they really milk are you getting close to the limit for your grass-I know if I get cows too wet up here they suffer.
 
I appreciate breeders who pay close attention to udders :-) . I'm nowhere near being able to cull based on udder structure... I'm lucky if they don't poison themselves and die on Larkspsur first :-) .

Anyhow, if I have to ever help a calf nurse a bag, the cow makes the cull list. If a cow has a "less than perfect" udder, she can stay as long as she doesn't create extra work, but I won't keep heifers out of her. I guess a good udder to me is one that the calf can nurse :lol: .

I'm having some trouble with my younger cow's udders. They are either a complete miss, or a complete hit :? . They are all out of good uddered cows, so I'm guessing it's creeping in on the bull side. If only I could figure out which bulls.
 
To be honest I'd have a bit of trouble giving that top cow a 9 her rear suspension could be a bit better in my opinion.

You are right on but I scored her right when she calved. Her bag was perfectly level and you can see the small teat size. I am not sure if her bag is breaking down with age or if it hangs this way after it is sucked out. I do not remember what it looked like this time last year but I am interested to see what it looks like at calving next year. It always gives me pause when I look back through my records and bag scores have changed more than a point. Makes me think I must have missed something, although it is a subjective art and a bad day or a great day might make a little difference.
 
WyomingRancher, I corrected my lethargic calf problem with a bull change...you may be culling cows for something that is not her fault. A cow that won't let her calf nurse is lucky to leave my place alive!!!!!
I agree, any extra work is a ticket to town...my cows work for me, not the other way around!
 
RobertMac said:
WyomingRancher, I corrected my lethargic calf problem with a bull change...you may be culling cows for something that is not her fault. A cow that won't let her calf nurse is lucky to leave my place alive!!!!!
I agree, any extra work is a ticket to town...my cows work for me, not the other way around!

I agree, the problem may be with the bull. What I meant by helping a calf nurse, is when a cow's bag is so bad, the calf can't find the teats without some help. I won't tolerate a cow who kicks her calf off either. Here are examples of what I'm talking about in my herd:

This is an udder on an 9 year old purchased cow which definately needs improvement! I've never had to help any of this cow's offspring nurse, and so she still lives here, the minute that changes is the minute she goes on the cull list. I would never consider keeping replacements out of this cow due to her udder structure and frame size (she's the largest cow on the ranch), despite the fact she raises nice calves.
Udders2008018.jpg


This is a typical udder on my younger cows (3 and 4 year olds). I'd estimate 95% of my young cows have udders like this...
Udders2008022.jpg


...but the other 5% look like this :x.
Udders2008014.jpg


In a perfect world, I'd cull the two bad udders, but as long as a calf can get them nursed, they'll have to work :D .
 
WyomingRancher said:
This is an udder on an 9 year old purchased cow which definately needs improvement! I've never had to help any of this cow's offspring nurse, and so she still lives here, the minute that changes is the minute she goes on the cull list. I would never consider keeping replacements out of this cow due to her udder structure and frame size (she's the largest cow on the ranch), despite the fact she raises nice calves.
Udders2008018.jpg

A person never gets too old to learn a valuable lesson. Here is one to ponder.

If a rancher brings to town some very nice market-topping bred heifers, they probably have the potential to turn into some very nice cows. Those bred heifers might be a "bargain" at any price. If that same rancher bring to town on the same day some older broken-mouthed cows, the only reason they are there is because they are old. They might also be a bargain if the buyer has adequate feed and wants some older "experienced" cows. But if the same seller, on the same day, brings to town a handful of solid-mouthed good-aged cows they are probably not a bargain at any price. These cows are there for the good reason that the rancher no longer wants them in his herd. There are bound to be problems with this class of cows; anything from bad bags, to bad dispositions, to a several year history of producing poor calves. Anyway, unless they sell even cheaper than the broken-mouthed cut, forget them.

My lesson was learned just this past winter. Saddletramp needed five cows, and my sister needed four cows. Their upper limit on the money they wanted to invest was a thousand dollars per cow. I went to a sale in December to try to fill their needs. A reputation rancher brought in some high quality bred heifers, as he does at this sale every year. The heifers brought $1360 per head. Later, after all the bred heifers had sold, this rancher sold about forty head of nice older broken-mouthed cows. They brought near the $800 figure as I recall. Then came in a nice ten-head package of his solid-mouthed cows. Nine head were solid black and the other was a black baldy. I only had to bid once to buy them for $975 per head. My mission was accomplished.

These cows were taken home. I offered Saddletramp the opportunity to pick five from the ten. He did, and we put his brand on those cows. My sister's brand was put on the other four black cows, and I put the spearhead brand on the remaining baldy cow. Saddletramp didn't have very good luck. Two of his cows ended up aborting their calves just a week or two before they were supposed to calve in February. Another of his new cows never did calve, and she never showed signs of having aborted. Evidently she just was not pregnant to start with, even though the sale barn vet put a P on her hip back in December. The other two of Saddletramp's cows had fairly decent calves. Since I felt responsible for buying dud cows, I shared half the loss on the deal, and ended up selling Saddletramp some very nice nine-year-old cows with good steer calves at their sides well worth the money.

Out of the four cows that my sister ended up with, two had sorry bags, and they couldn't even raise their calves. The other two had sorry dispositions but they are still in the herd. The baldy cow that I kept for myself has a bag that nearly drags in the dirt. Her calf is pretty common.

I have never said anything to the rancher the cows were purchased from, and I don't plan to. He is a good guy who I consider a friend. He made an honest sale, and I made an honest buy. He sure didn't know that the cows would abort, and they probably would have had some decent calves had things worked out right. The other cow was evidently pregnant when the vet pronounced her so. The other blimps and blemishes come under the title, "let the buyer beware."

Lesson learned. Tuition is sometimes quite high. :roll:
 
OUCH Soapweed! That is a tough lesson to learn :o .

Actually, the pictured cow was part of a complete dispersal. Two head out of the 36 had udders like this, the rest are good. For the reasons you mention, I am never comfortable buying someone's culls. I'll only bid on complete dispersals or bred heifers, and hopefully I'm getting away from having to buy outside cattle :wink: .
 
The baldy cow that I kept for myself has a bag that nearly drags in the dirt. Her calf is pretty common.

You hit the reason for my post being set up that way. Years ago those 2bag cows that were colored right were raising bull calves. Might sew them up and still let them raise a bull. The point is that after the beating the hereford breed has had over the last 20 years most of us still raising them are doing so because we feel the breed has something to offer besides making cattle pretty.
 
It never ceases to amaze me the trade in woreout old crocks that goes on-I'll bring my crap to town and buy yours back. The world still needs hamburger-I feel really bad when some youngster gets injected with some of those cattle. Caveat Emptor
 
When I take a cull that I know has problems to the salebarn, I tell the man to weigh them. If someone wants to buy them by the pound and take a chance on them, that's 'buyer beware'. Selling problem cows as breds is something I don't think is right...probably because I've been on the wrong end of too many of those buys...many at association approved, purebred sales!!!! I haven't bought an animal in seven years and don't ever intend to buy any again.
 
I'm feeling much better about my cow's udders:

http://feeds.feedburner.com/ConfessionsOfAPioneerWoman

Its a good thing brahma calves are born with more intelligence :wink: .
 
Soapweed, my hat is off to you (AGAIN) for doing what to you was the right thing. Saddletramp and your sister appreciate very much what you did, I am sure. It's nice when someone makes things right. Doesn't always happen--in fact it is an exception when it does and that's one of the reasons why I admire you and your operation.

This study of bags and the comments about purchasing cows is very interesting. We bought 3 cows from an order buyer several years ago. It was from a total dispersion.that he had purchased for resale. We walked through the cows and selected 3, as he told us we could do. 2 of those cows were NASTY...I mean hunt you down when they calved. The other cow was a SUPER COW. She became my very favorite cow and we kept her til she was 13 or 14 years old. So you just don't know what you are going to get when you buy cows, unless you really know the seller.


Buying cows out of a sale ring is among my worst nightmares. The bags are one thing, but getting a cow that hunts you down, is quite another. In this case, one of these aforementioned cows calved in the dark, and Mr. FH was going to go into the lot where the cow was to check to see if everything was ok, but something distracted him and he didn't go. The next day, in daylight, he was going to check on her and she chased him out of the lot, bellering like he was a coyote. It's a good thing he didn't go in with her at night. Nothing is worth keeping a cow like that and we certainly wouldn't sell her to someone else. She got a trip to the sale barn as a dry cow.

There have been some people in our area that bought dry 2-year olds and bred them to sell them that fall as bred coming 3's. That proved to be a real wreck...some cows can't raise calves and the sooner they are in the butcher pen the better.
 
Soapweed, we've all seen your cattle...what would make you think you could go to town and buy your sister and SaddleTramp better cattle than you could sell them? You do keep your own replacements, don't you?
 
RobertMac said:
When I take a cull that I know has problems to the salebarn, I tell the man to weigh them. If someone wants to buy them by the pound and take a chance on them, that's 'buyer beware'. Selling problem cows as breds is something I don't think is right...probably because I've been on the wrong end of too many of those buys...many at association approved, purebred sales!!!! I haven't bought an animal in seven years and don't ever intend to buy any again.

I also feel that your way is the proper method to get rid of reject cows. When we preg check our cows in the fall, any open cows get an "O" on their hips, and pregnant cull cows get a "P" on their hips. These cull cattle are all taken to the sale barn and just sold by the pound. I certainly don't sell them in a featured bred cow sale.
 
Well, right or wrong we have allways sold our cows as 'culls'. When we preg check we cut the switches off all drys and culls and they are all sold as drys. That way I can sleep at nights knowing nobody got too disappointed on my account. :wink:
 

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