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voluntary today........mandatory tomorrow

HAY MAKER

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USDA unveils new business plan for national animal ID
Wednesday, December 19, 2007, 3:52 PM

by Peter Shinn and Bob Meyer

USDA unveiled a new vision for the National Animal Identification System (NAIS) Wednesday. The plan focuses on the identification issues confronting each species and identifies seven key strategies to move the NAIS forward. Those strategies center on the need to improve data compatibility, technology, cooperation with livestock and breed associations and with state governments as well.

According to the new business plan, the U.S. commercial poultry industry already essentially has the ability to trace individual birds back to their original premises within 48 hours. But the plan said the beef cattle industry has the farthest to go in achieving the goal of 48 hour trace back, largely due to its diverse segments and lack of vertical integration.

USDA Under Secretary for Marketing and Regulatory Programs Bruce Knight told Brownfield premises registration remains the key to making the NAIS viable. He urged beef producers to "take the emotion out" of their decision to register their premises. And Knight pointed out there are compelling reasons for cattle producers to register their premises.

"If they want to see the importance of animal ID, look at how this summer, with an outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease (FMD) in the United Kingdom, how quickly that was able to be contained and how few animals died," Knight emphasized. "And, but for the grace of God, we could go there as well."

While the business plan stresses the importance of livestock traceability, nowhere in the document is it suggested that the NAIS should be or ever will become a mandatory program. And Knight says it doesn't need to.

"It is a voluntary program," Knight reiterated. "We think the merits of animal ID are such that folks will participate as a voluntary program."

One directly affected by animal disease issues in the United Kingdom is Rob Wills, Executive Manager of the British Livestock Genetics Consortium, Ltd. He told Brownfield the only way animal identification helped successfully control this past summer's FMD outbreak is that the UK program is mandatory.

"Without a national mandatory ID system, we could be dead and buried," Wills said bluntly. And he cautioned that if FMD or a similarly contagious disease were to strike in the U.S., the absence of a system to speed traceability could make eradication a difficult, costly and lengthy affair with larger ramifications.

"Then you really, seriously are in a nightmare scenario and your exports will be banned," Wills warned. "And if you don't watch out, they'll be banned forever."

Fear of losing export markets is one reason National Pork Producers Council (NPPC) President Jill Appell told Brownfield her group continues to support a mandatory national animal ID system. She also noted the U.S. pork industry had a positive and successful experience with the mandatory pseudorabies eradication program. For those reasons, Appell said pork producers may be more comfortable than cattle producers with a mandatory approach to animal ID.

"The pseudorabies program was not only mandatory, it worked," noted Appell. "And so we probably don't have the same kind of reluctance as some other species may have to having a mandatory program."

But how can the hesitancy of beef producers to register their premises be overcome? According to Knight, USDA, state veterinarians and cattle and breed associations must all play an important role. But Knight suggested the most effective advocates for the NAIS may be other cattlemen.

"What we're seeing already in some of the partnerships we've done with the industries, where the industry leadership is saying, 'Guys, this is the right thing to do,' we're seeing a great deal of acceptance of animal ID and high levels of participation," Knight said.

The new NAIS business plan sets the bar differently for different species. For example, the plan calls for 100% of commercial poultry houses to be registered by March 2008. The plan expects 100% of swine premises to be registered by March of 2009. But the plan's objective for cattle is more modest, with a goal of just 70% of U.S. cattle on registered premises by December of 2009.
 
Most if not all poultry is owned and produced by the same company for the retail/wholesale market. They own the baby chicks, the grown birds, and the processed birds. There is nothing great about knowing where the chicken came from. The processors who own those chickens place those chickens on the farms for a growout, but also know where the eggs came from that were hatched because they own those facilities too.

One of the things I have noticed is that the consumer has a harder time tracing back the chicken to the plant it came from. For example, on some of the poultry that Sam's sold as antibiotic free---which it was not-- the USDA inspected seal did not have the plant that the poultry was produced from.

If the intent of the USDA is to keep consumers from knowing anything about the poultry slaughtering plant that their product came from and still push NAIS, they succeeded.

Of course this does nothing than take information away from consumers! :twisted: :twisted:

Bruce Knight knows that it is true for the pork industry also.

THE USDA WANTS TO KNOW WHERE ALL MEAT COMES FROM BUT WANTS TO HIDE FROM THE CONSUMER WHO PROCESSES THAT MEAT!!!
 
THE USDA WANTS TO KNOW WHERE ALL MEAT COMES FROM BUT WANTS TO HIDE FROM THE CONSUMER WHO PROCESSES THAT MEAT!!!

No tellen where the chicken came from without a plant no.
 
And R-CALF'ers want consumers to know which country the beef came from, but wants to hide the fact that it came from their ranches! Paraphrasing Leo, here, true to his intent but maybe not his actual words: "ranchers shouldn't be burdened with proof they raised a particular animal, or trace-back".

mrj
 
mrj said:
And R-CALF'ers want consumers to know which country the beef came from, but wants to hide the fact that it came from their ranches! Paraphrasing Leo, here, true to his intent but maybe not his actual words: "ranchers shouldn't be burdened with proof they raised a particular animal, or trace-back".

mrj

We don't want to hide it, we just don't see the logic into going to the expense to provide information that the customer has no use for and won't get anyway.

One thing that no NCBAer has ever explained to me, in addition to how they came up with the crap they're spewing on the farm bill, is how can they say tracking which country an animal came from will be prohibitively expensive, but it won't be to track the animal from every pasture they've ever been in. :roll:
 
Mr. Kanitz's engineers at ScoringSystem proved that everybody building database food traceing systems lied, including NCBA ,is how can they say tracking which country an animal came from will be prohibitively expensive, IS not TRUE.
The ScoringAg database is the cheapest system running as it runs in the 3rd world everyday tracking every known animal that has to be tracked and their fabricated products, crops right down to corn flakes in boxes , poultry and fish from source to retail center , and ingredients like powered cows fat for feed that carried bse to Japan from the Netherlands.
 
Sandhusker, why would you expect anyone to believe you would accept any explanation from NCBA........you rarely give them any credit, and when you must, it's a little 'left-handed'.

You call NCBA's comments on how our MEMBERs believe the proposed changes will affect THEM are "crap". Just how can you know better than an individual cattle producer or feeder how something will affect his own business?

You CLAIM NCBA incorrectly says "tracking which country an animal came from will be prohibitively expensive".......yet you don't give us details of YOUR plan showing how it won't be...........you CLAIM NCBA incorrectly says it "won't be (prohibitively expensive) to track the animal from every pasture they've ever been in"........and you don't present the regulation which requires it!

Personally, I think your "we just don't see the logic in going to the expense to provide information the customer has no use for" is a smoke screen because when COOL was being promoted to cattle producers there was considerable talk by those promoters to the effect that "we don't want trace-back because packers will blame us and shift liability back to us for anything they do wrong".

mrj
 
mrj said:
Sandhusker, why would you expect anyone to believe you would accept any explanation from NCBA........you rarely give them any credit, and when you must, it's a little 'left-handed'.

You call NCBA's comments on how our MEMBERs believe the proposed changes will affect THEM are "crap". Just how can you know better than an individual cattle producer or feeder how something will affect his own business?

You CLAIM NCBA incorrectly says "tracking which country an animal came from will be prohibitively expensive".......yet you don't give us details of YOUR plan showing how it won't be...........you CLAIM NCBA incorrectly says it "won't be (prohibitively expensive) to track the animal from every pasture they've ever been in"........and you don't present the regulation which requires it!

Personally, I think your "we just don't see the logic in going to the expense to provide information the customer has no use for" is a smoke screen because when COOL was being promoted to cattle producers there was considerable talk by those promoters to the effect that "we don't want trace-back because packers will blame us and shift liability back to us for anything they do wrong".

mrj

mrj, why hasn't the NCBA supported COOL and instead supported NAIS?

Why does NAIS have something like 90% or better participation in the commercial poultry business which is controlled by big companies who already know where there chickens are , and that even the plant information is more anbd more not put on the package for the retail purchaser to see?

Sometimes I wonder how far you will go to pull the packer's wagon, even when they are in the competing meats category, and then you post and I see.

If you could only use your talents to really promote beef instead of allowing packers to pull one over again, and again on the beef producer because of their interests in the substitutes. But then you might have to look at your little award in a different light, then , wouldn't you.
 
mrj said:
Sandhusker, why would you expect anyone to believe you would accept any explanation from NCBA........you rarely give them any credit, and when you must, it's a little 'left-handed'.

You call NCBA's comments on how our MEMBERs believe the proposed changes will affect THEM are "crap". Just how can you know better than an individual cattle producer or feeder how something will affect his own business?

You CLAIM NCBA incorrectly says "tracking which country an animal came from will be prohibitively expensive".......yet you don't give us details of YOUR plan showing how it won't be...........you CLAIM NCBA incorrectly says it "won't be (prohibitively expensive) to track the animal from every pasture they've ever been in"........and you don't present the regulation which requires it!

Personally, I think your "we just don't see the logic in going to the expense to provide information the customer has no use for" is a smoke screen because when COOL was being promoted to cattle producers there was considerable talk by those promoters to the effect that "we don't want trace-back because packers will blame us and shift liability back to us for anything they do wrong".

mrj

mrj, why hasn't the NCBA supported COOL and instead supported NAIS?

Why does NAIS have something like 90% or better participation in the commercial poultry business which is controlled by big companies who already know where there chickens are , and that even the plant information is more anbd more not put on the package for the retail purchaser to see?

Sometimes I wonder how far you will go to pull the packer's wagon, even when they are in the competing meats category, and then you post and I see.

If you could only use your talents to really promote beef instead of allowing packers to pull one over again, and again on the beef producer because of their interests in the substitutes. But then you might have to look at your little award in a different light, then , wouldn't you.
 
Its hilarious listening to the COOL-Klowns whine and moan about NAIS.

Polish up thoses crystal balls boys. You have pushed your government to single out foreign beef. Your ranch is next on the list.
 
MRJ, "You call NCBA's comments on how our MEMBERs believe the proposed changes will affect THEM are "crap".'

Good grief, MRJ, if you believe those comments from NCBA were from members and not leadership, you'll believe anything from them - oh wait, you do.

MRJ, "You CLAIM NCBA incorrectly says "tracking which country an animal came from will be prohibitively expensive".......yet you don't give us details of YOUR plan showing how it won't be...........you CLAIM NCBA incorrectly says it "won't be (prohibitively expensive) to track the animal from every pasture they've ever been in"........and you don't present the regulation which requires it!"

I'll make it as simple as I can for you, MRJ. A member of your ladies club is going on a trip to the East Coast. One of the members asks her to bring back a postcard of the destination city. Another member says, "No, that would be too expensive, instead bring back a postcard of every city and town that you go through on the entire trip". Now, would that make any sense? That is the same logic NCBA has with their expense arguement. NAIS is COOL plus a whole lot more.

Personally, I think your "we just don't see the logic in going to the expense to provide information the customer has no use for" is a smoke screen because when COOL was being promoted to cattle producers there was considerable talk by those promoters to the effect that "we don't want trace-back because packers will blame us and shift liability back to us for anything they do wrong".

That is another arguement agaisnt NAIS - and a good one. You need to explain two things;
1) How will the ranch of origin information get to consumers via NAIS
2) How would ranch of origin be of any use to a conusmer in Boston.
 
Bill said:
Its hilarious listening to the COOL-Klowns whine and moan about NAIS.

Polish up thoses crystal balls boys. You have pushed your government to single out foreign beef. Your ranch is next on the list.

Bill, you may glorify government control and intervention where it is not necessary while they stifle the truth, then turn around and use very excuse to control the industry even more, but most U.S. cattlemen and citizens are independent, kind of like your rkaiser.

You are just so jealous to be a real independent cattleman that you can't let anyone else be that without criticism. Maybe you should go to rkaiser's ranch and learn how to be what you so wish to be but just don't know how.
 
Tex said:
Bill said:
Its hilarious listening to the COOL-Klowns whine and moan about NAIS.

Polish up thoses crystal balls boys. You have pushed your government to single out foreign beef. Your ranch is next on the list.

Bill, you may glorify government control and intervention where it is not necessary while they stifle the truth, then turn around and use very excuse to control the industry even more, but most U.S. cattlemen and citizens are independent, kind of like your rkaiser.

You are just so jealous to be a real independent cattleman that you can't let anyone else be that without criticism. Maybe you should go to rkaiser's ranch and learn how to be what you so wish to be but just don't know how.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Are you trying to tell us that YOU are an independent cattleman (whatever the hell that is supposed to be) ECON? You aren't even a cattleman of any sort but you seem to think you have learned enough from the outside looking in that you know more than those of us who make a living at it.

Me glorifying government control? Better see the doc and check out those meds again.What I was saying is that now that y'all have pushed the button, expect the door to open all the way.
 
Bill said:
Tex said:
Bill said:
Its hilarious listening to the COOL-Klowns whine and moan about NAIS.

Polish up thoses crystal balls boys. You have pushed your government to single out foreign beef. Your ranch is next on the list.

Bill, you may glorify government control and intervention where it is not necessary while they stifle the truth, then turn around and use very excuse to control the industry even more, but most U.S. cattlemen and citizens are independent, kind of like your rkaiser.

You are just so jealous to be a real independent cattleman that you can't let anyone else be that without criticism. Maybe you should go to rkaiser's ranch and learn how to be what you so wish to be but just don't know how.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Are you trying to tell us that YOU are an independent cattleman (whatever the hell that is supposed to be) ECON? You aren't even a cattleman of any sort but you seem to think you have learned enough from the outside looking in that you know more than those of us who make a living at it.

Me glorifying government control? Better see the doc and check out those meds again.What I was saying is that now that y'all have pushed the button, expect the door to open all the way.

Wow, Bill, you must have had a hard day. That falling dollar bites both ways doesn't it?
 
Its amazing to me how many folks object to the NAIS. We will all be faced with identifications someday. Normally premises are not identified if there is a sick or dying animal. Although irritating its probably good protection for the owner of the property when you think about it. If we don't know where the animal can from we can't prevent spreading of a disease like BSE. Think about it. It makes sense.

Texas Rancher.
 
Mitchell said:
Its amazing to me how many folks object to the NAIS. We will all be faced with identifications someday. Normally premises are not identified if there is a sick or dying animal. Although irritating its probably good protection for the owner of the property when you think about it. If we don't know where the animal can from we can't prevent spreading of a disease like BSE. Think about it. It makes sense.

Texas Rancher.

I disagree. First of all there is the choice of the word "premesis". There's the question of who controls the data and who has access to it. We don't know the costs. There are liability issues. Much of the country (where a large percentage of the cattle are) can already track cattle via brands and bangs tags. You've got a huge red flag with the USDA claiming it is a voluntary health program, but then they tell veteranarians "When it is mandatory", paying groups to get people to sign up, and pushing it as a marketing deal. The USDA says we need to to track diseases like BSE - the BSE they claim we don't have any of. This whole deal smells worse than Bill's underwear.

The
 
Sandhusker said:
Mitchell said:
Its amazing to me how many folks object to the NAIS. We will all be faced with identifications someday. Normally premises are not identified if there is a sick or dying animal. Although irritating its probably good protection for the owner of the property when you think about it. If we don't know where the animal can from we can't prevent spreading of a disease like BSE. Think about it. It makes sense.

Texas Rancher.

I disagree. First of all there is the choice of the word "premesis". There's the question of who controls the data and who has access to it. We don't know the costs. There are liability issues. Much of the country (where a large percentage of the cattle are) can already track cattle via brands and bangs tags. You've got a huge red flag with the USDA claiming it is a voluntary health program, but then they tell veteranarians "When it is mandatory", paying groups to get people to sign up, and pushing it as a marketing deal. The USDA says we need to to track diseases like BSE - the BSE they claim we don't have any of. This whole deal smells worse than Bill's underwear.

The[/quo


Sandhusker there are many diseases much more contagous then BSE that could use tracking and a premise ID.
 
BMR, "Sandhusker there are many diseases much more contagous then BSE that could use tracking and a premise ID."

You are right. However, many areas can already track those cattle. Why push an untested program full of question marks with an unknown price tag on those places?

Maybe the USDA should concentrate on what they are supposed to do - keep diseases OUT. That would be a heck of a lot cheaper and more effective in the long run.
 
Mitchell said:
Its amazing to me how many folks object to the NAIS. We will all be faced with identifications someday. Normally premises are not identified if there is a sick or dying animal. Although irritating its probably good protection for the owner of the property when you think about it. If we don't know where the animal can from we can't prevent spreading of a disease like BSE. Think about it. It makes sense.

Texas Rancher.

Mitchell-- WE DO-- and have been able to track cattle and disease for over 100 years....Like I posted here before- USDA even admitted that in tracking many cattle, the brands department did what this new eartag and NAIS would not do....Just because you folks down south been sitting on your haunches and don't have the ambition/energy to ID them- is no reason everyone should get forced to- and to change from our systems that have worked for so long.....
 
Actually, they could track it just as easy, could they not, with requiring a tattoo........... why must a person sign up their "property" into a "premise"?

I think if they ever change the NAIS wording from premise to "property" as it should be you will find they lose all interest in pushing NAIS. Is this just more "conditioning" or "physops" to prepare people for NAIS??
 

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