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Tam

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Who votes for this to be the stupidest comment by Bullard. I know there are lots but come on. :roll:


Bill Bullard, R-CALF's chief executive officer, said signs of packing-plant construction in Canada are not a response to the border controversy"
 

SASH

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I don't know. I've heard him say lots of pretty stupid things. Whether this is the stupidest or not is debatable.
 

the chief

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In 1998, the hog industry suffered its worst period of low prices. How did this occur? The large packers bought out small packing plants and then closed the packing plants. Then they had the audacity to attribute the hog market collapse on "loss of shackle space."

since Canada's problem now is too many cattle and not enough packing plants, the packers will build some more. This is good for their industry.

It will also be good for American beef industry. HOW? you ask. I know many of you NCBA lovers forgot this word: COMPETITION in the marketplace.

I guess it's easy to forget that terminology when you have it so engrained into your system that the packer is your best friend. Especially when they DISCOURAGE competition.

Let's just hope after the Canadian packing plants begin operation, they take pride in their product and LABEL IT CANADIAN BEEF. since NCBA and the AMI don't want it, maybe you guys can use it to your advantage and let American beef men and women see how well it works. I know I will use that label for my own protection and safety. :!:
 

Tam

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The beef leaving Canada has product of Canada on the box and probably always will. It loses the label when it gets to the US, so how can you say we could show the americans beef men and women how well it works.

That competition in the market place ie export markets could drive down the price the customer will pay if he can get the same thing or better from a competeing country for less. And as you may have noticed that Canada has done with less for a couple years and if it takes a little less to establish a good market you can bet we'll take that too if it means taking your market after all the crap you have put us through. If things get really bad we could always 100% test which we know the USDA will never do to get the markets away from you. Now would you like to work together or compete.
 

Bull Burger

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the chief said:
The large packers bought out small packing plants and then closed the packing plants.

Why did the large packers buy out the small packers?
Could it be the small packers were willing sellers because they couldn't compete?
Could it be they couldn't pay enough for the cattle, so the feeders sold to the large packers?
Could it be the small packers could not afford the upgrades necessary for their plants under new laws?


the chief said:
.............................. that the packer is your best friend.

The packer is not my best friend, not is he my enemy. He is someone I do business with, and for me to receive the most money for my production, he has to profit from his contribution to the "food chain".
 
A

Anonymous

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Chief,

If competition in the cattle market doesn't already exist, how were larger packing companies able to buy out smaller companies???

Hmmmmm????

Typical packer blaming contradiction!



~SH~
 

agman

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the chief said:
In 1998, the hog industry suffered its worst period of low prices. How did this occur? The large packers bought out small packing plants and then closed the packing plants. Then they had the audacity to attribute the hog market collapse on "loss of shackle space."

Response..The rest of the story. Although some plants were shut down total slaughter capacity actually increased. Following two years of very high prices and profits hog producers expanded to the level that exceeded the expanded slaughter capacity. Slaughter levels were at a record in 1998, 9 million head more that the previous year and 5 million head more than the previous record set in 1995. Do you see a problem with your story chief? Partial and incorrect information such as you posted is more dangerous than no information at all. Have a great day.
 

Sandhusker

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~SH~ said:
Chief,

If competition in the cattle market doesn't already exist, how were larger packing companies able to buy out smaller companies???

Hmmmmm????

Typical packer blaming contradiction!



~SH~

Competition has ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING to do with an outfit buying anybody else out. I don't compete with the local feed store - I'm not even in the same business - but I can buy him out simply by writing a check.

Typical half-thougth out response in an effort to be contrary. :lol:
 

Mike

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The 1998 hog market crisis followed two years of historically high prices, and caught many producers blind sided. By the spring of 1999, the situation had begun to ease, with prices rebounding closer to the break-even point. Yet industry analysts, producers, trade groups and professors continue to analyze the hog industry's price collapse. They cite multiple reasons for the crisis. Chief among them, many agree, has been that hog supplies have far exceeded the slaughter capacity of U.S. packing plants.
In reality, however, over-supply wasn't the root problem, insist some producer representatives. Although the National Pork Producers Council (NPPC) board of directors agreed in November that farmers were producing too many hogs for the existing slaughter capacity in the United States, it believed the source of the industry's troubles lay elsewhere.
"It is not that we are producing too much pork," NPPC's board told producers in an open letter. "Domestic consumer demand and exports are actually up significantly compared to 1997."
The real problem, the board said, is that, producers have lost bargaining power."
 

RHR

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Chief, Since the packers are your ememies and can't be trusted why don't you and your R-Calf buddies take some of your litigation money and buy or start a packing plant? You then could take the profits and really go to work at closing our borders and keep our meat supply safe.
 

SMS

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OMG

I can't believe how the focus of this thread has been lost...back on subject.

This is just Bullard showing his level of intelligence again about the beef industry.

Bill Bullard, R-CALF's chief executive officer, said signs of packing-plant construction in Canada are not a response to the border controversy"



So whats the vote now...stupid statement or idiot?
 
A

Anonymous

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Sandhusker: "Competition has ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING to do with an outfit buying anybody else out."

As usual, you are wrong again!

If competition didn't exist, smaller packing plants could remain in business despite the added efficiencies of larger packing plants. Smaller plants could pay up for the cattle and still assume a reasonable profit because, THERE'S NO COMPETITION!!!!

The truth is, because competition does exist, most smaller less efficient packing companies couldn't compete with the larger more efficient packing companies at the prices they were paying for fat cattle and still remain profitable so most sold out to the competition that "supposedly" didn't exist.

Conflicting arguments.

1. If there is no competition as the packer blamers allege, smaller less efficient packing companies could remain profitable.

2. If there is compeition in the packing industry, smaller less efficient packing companies wouldn't be able to pay up for the cattle and still remain profitable.

WHICH ONE OCCCURED????

#2!


Once again, you show how much you dont' know Sandhusker!



~SH~
 

Tam

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Sandhusker
Competition has ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING to do with an outfit buying anybody else out.

I guess dumb statements run in the R-CALF camp

Sandhusker If I had a fair size busniess and I had a little store competeing with me for customer base would you as a banker loan me money to buy my competition out. Or would you just tell me to suck it up because the customers that his business are taking away aren't hurting my business. Competition has everything to do with why businesses buy others out and you as a Banker surely know that

Typical half-thougth out response in an effort to be contrary.
:p
 

mrj

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Chief, I cheerfully inform you that you are wrong about NCBA's stand on labeling. We prefer a consumer driven label. Are you aware that there are quite a few producers who do label their beef? That will become a moot point when M-ID kicks in, anyway.

MRJ
 

Sandhusker

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~SH~ said:
Sandhusker: "Competition has ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING to do with an outfit buying anybody else out."

As usual, you are wrong again!

If competition didn't exist, smaller packing plants could remain in business despite the added efficiencies of larger packing plants. Smaller plants could pay up for the cattle and still assume a reasonable profit because, THERE'S NO COMPETITION!!!!

The truth is, because competition does exist, most smaller less efficient packing companies couldn't compete with the larger more efficient packing companies at the prices they were paying for fat cattle and still remain profitable so most sold out to the competition that "supposedly" didn't exist.

Conflicting arguments.

1. If there is no competition as the packer blamers allege, smaller less efficient packing companies could remain profitable.

2. If there is compeition in the packing industry, smaller less efficient packing companies wouldn't be able to pay up for the cattle and still remain profitable.

WHICH ONE OCCCURED????

#2!


Once again, you show how much you dont' know Sandhusker!



~SH~

Not that I think it'll do any good, but I'll show you ways small companies get swallowed up by the bigger ones that have NOTHING do with whether or not they are involved in a competitive market;

1) Larger company buys controlling interest in smaller public company
2) Larger company offers enough to a private company to get a deal
3) Larger company takes a temporary hit to bottom line by outbidding the smaller company until they go belly up.
4) Companies simply merge
5) Small undiversified company doesn't have deep enough pockets to last an extended downturn in business
5) Government regulations make it tougher on smaller companies, thus weakening them
6) Litigation

Now you're so much smarter than I am, please tell me how these 6 scenarios could not happen in a non-competitive marketplace.
 

Tam

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Sandhusker: "Competition has ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING to do with an outfit buying anybody else out."


Absolute means: complete,whole,pure,not limited, unrestricted, positive

Nothing means: no thing,lack of existence.

These are pretty strong words and capitalizing them to boot. :???:

What happens to the small business that is taking customers from a big business. Will the big business buy the little business up to get rid of the competition. Well yes I think big business do it all the time that is how they get bigger isn't it Sandhusker.

We had a family that wanted to own all the livestock markets in Sask a few years ago they bought up all the markets they could even those that would be competeing for the cattle if the market was any kind of threat to their success. I course the story goes the owners didn't know that the family was dealing with all of them at the same time. I can now name only two markets that they don't own in the south. They also happen to own the only cow slaughter plant when this whole mess started. So they would make the producers pay them to sell their cull cattle ie the yardage or commission then they would buy them for their own slaughter plant. The producer were force of course to sell at their auction because their buyer only bought at their places cutting out any hope of getting your cattle sold at a competeing yard. When the guys sold the animals right to the slaughter house these same guys made the producers haul the cattle to a drop point then charge them to group the animals and haul them to their own plant. One guy even said he got a bill from them for getting the load together and he was the one that loaded the truck on his ranch and it deliveried the animals right to the plant . Now if these guy had had any competition do you think they could have gotten away with this. They bought up the competition that was giving them any run for their money.

But Yes Sandhusker competition has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with one guy buying out another.
 

TimH

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"Bill Bullard, R-CALF's chief executive officer, said signs of packing-plant construction in Canada are not a response to the border controversy"

Tam, I don't know if that's the stupidest thing he ever said or not.
Perhaps the Good Reverend Bill Blowhard was merely "speaking in tongues" again. :wink:

Ever hear the song , "The Big Revival", by John Anderson???

.......he ain't sure , and we ain't sure
exactly what he said......
Praise the Lord and pass me a copperhead.

" .......and if you can just send in another "gift" of $1500 or more ,you too shall have SALVATION-ahhh!!!!!"

GOOOOOOOO R-CALF!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
A

Anonymous

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Yes Sandhusker, there "CAN BE" many reasons why small companies sell to large companies some of which you listed. Buying out the competition is one of those reasons which contradicts what you said.

What you said was.............

Sandhusker: "Competition has ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING to do with an outfit buying anybody else out."

THOSE ARE YOUR EXACT WORDS and that statement is flat out wrong!

You are treed again!

Many packing companies sold out to larger companies because they simply could not compete with them from an efficiency standpoint which directly contradicts this R-CALF sanctioned conspiracy theory that there is no competition in the packing industry!

My guess is you will once again be too arrogant to admit that you were wrong, once again.



~SH~
 

Sandhusker

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Tam and SH,
Both of you need to go back and read SH's original statement. He said that there had to be competition in the cattle business or the smaller companies would remain in business.

I said that companies buying each other out had nothing to do with competition and offered examples to prove that.

SH then admitted there are other reasons that would allow for the sale,"Yes Sandhusker, there "CAN BE" many reasons why small companies sell to large companies some of which you listed.", but then says, "Sandhusker: "Competition has ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING to do with an outfit buying anybody else out. THOSE ARE YOUR EXACT WORDS and that statement is flat out wrong! ' SH, you agree with me but then in the next breath tell me I'm wrong! :lol:

Both of you - some homework. Actually, it's a reassignment :wink:

Here are the 6 reasons I posted. I'm sure there are more, but that doesn't really matter. Read each one and then try to tell me how there would have to be a competitive market in place in order for it to happen.
If you can't, then SH is wrong. Remember, he said that big companies buying up smaller companies proved there is competition. Have fun, kids.
:p
) Larger company buys controlling interest in smaller public company
2) Larger company offers enough to a private company to get a deal
3) Larger company takes a temporary hit to bottom line by outbidding the smaller company until they go belly up.
4) Companies simply merge
5) Small undiversified company doesn't have deep enough pockets to last an extended downturn in business
5) Government regulations make it tougher on smaller companies, thus weakening them
6) Litigation
 

Sandhusker

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Tam said:
Sandhusker: "Competition has ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING to do with an outfit buying anybody else out."


Absolute means: complete,whole,pure,not limited, unrestricted, positive

Nothing means: no thing,lack of existence.

These are pretty strong words and capitalizing them to boot. :???:

What happens to the small business that is taking customers from a big business. Will the big business buy the little business up to get rid of the competition. Well yes I think big business do it all the time that is how they get bigger isn't it Sandhusker.

We had a family that wanted to own all the livestock markets in Sask a few years ago they bought up all the markets they could even those that would be competeing for the cattle if the market was any kind of threat to their success. I course the story goes the owners didn't know that the family was dealing with all of them at the same time. I can now name only two markets that they don't own in the south. They also happen to own the only cow slaughter plant when this whole mess started. So they would make the producers pay them to sell their cull cattle ie the yardage or commission then they would buy them for their own slaughter plant. The producer were force of course to sell at their auction because their buyer only bought at their places cutting out any hope of getting your cattle sold at a competeing yard. When the guys sold the animals right to the slaughter house these same guys made the producers haul the cattle to a drop point then charge them to group the animals and haul them to their own plant. One guy even said he got a bill from them for getting the load together and he was the one that loaded the truck on his ranch and it deliveried the animals right to the plant . Now if these guy had had any competition do you think they could have gotten away with this. They bought up the competition that was giving them any run for their money.

But Yes Sandhusker competition has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with one guy buying out another.

I don't understand you point, Tam. SH is trying to tell us there has to be competition in order for buyouts, but your example is one where there is no competition :???:
 

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