gcreekrch
Well-known member
leanin' H said:
It takes 200 days for a calf to be 200 days old. :wink:
Weather and calving
- Thread starter Sandliserd
- Start date
It takes 200 days for a calf to be 200 days old. :wink:
leanin' H
Well-known member
What some of you are forgetting is the public grazing issue. Most guys go on the mountain May 1st out here. You will be turning out on hundreds of thousands of acres of canyons and ridges. You wanta check on cattle calving in this senario? So we calve in February and wean in October when the cows come back off the mountain. Now do the math....... a 400 pound may calf brings $1.15 for a $460 bill. A 600 pound calf brings .92 at $552! Times a hundred bucks by 300 head and explain to me the "benefits" of calving later? I understand what ya'll do works swell, but there's lots and lots of ranches throughout the west who pick up what I'm putting down. My cousin keeps his calves until February and then sells them. He is set up for that and it works fine for him. But once he got started doing it, it would be tough to turn around and sell again this fall for tax reasons. And that keeps some guys from trying it too. Just some food for thought. Whatever works right! :wink:
Soap, I have contempated movin' to town but then I sobered up! :wink: I'd rather walk through the cow crap and smell the sage than live the easy life!
My cousin keeps his calves until February and then sells them. He is set up for that and it works fine for him. But once he got started doing it, it would be tough to turn around and sell again this fall for tax reasons. And that keeps some guys from trying it too. Just some food for thought. Whatever works right! :wink: Soap, I have contempated movin' to town but then I sobered up! :wink: I'd rather walk through the cow crap and smell the sage than live the easy life!
rancherfred
Well-known member
I hope that every one of you that calve in the winter keep calving in the winter. I sure don't want the market to be flooded with grass cattle.
Having said that, I keep reading about the advantages of calving early, if you are set up for it. Doesn't the "set up" cost something? Aren't the feeding costs going to eat up at least a little bit of that extra $100 that you get for calving early?
I am much to big of a wimp to attempt to prove how tough I am by calving in the winter. Been there, done that, have the pile of dead calves to prove it, and we were "set up" for it too.
Having said that, I keep reading about the advantages of calving early, if you are set up for it. Doesn't the "set up" cost something? Aren't the feeding costs going to eat up at least a little bit of that extra $100 that you get for calving early?
I am much to big of a wimp to attempt to prove how tough I am by calving in the winter. Been there, done that, have the pile of dead calves to prove it, and we were "set up" for it too.
flyingS
Well-known member
I think I have calved every month out of the year except Nov.-Jan. I can not see why anyone would want to calve any early than April or any later than July. The number one advantage I see is the labor cost. You do not have to night check cows. With the right program in this country a April born set of calves will perform just as well as a March calf. The effecieny looks like it will pay time and time again. Weaning weights don't mean anything, lbs/acre are what counts
PureCountry
Well-known member
Goodness people, it's starting to sound like the CT board around here.
"My calving season is better than yours, nah na-nah na-nah nah!!!"
Whatever works for you in your area. If you have to calve early because your cows go to BLM pasture or whatever you call it - so be it. We calved in Feb for years when I was a kid, so we have a heated barn here. When I took things over I didn't want to do it anymore because I was working off the farm and didn't want to have to babysit cows in cold weather. However, in our region April didn't - and still doesn't - make sense because we always seem to get wet, heavy snowstorms in April. I figured either stick with February or go all the way to May/June, and that's what we did. We don't regret it one bit, we keep our calves over and grass them, then keep them over again and grass finish them. This system works for us. Period.
Obviously there are some things that can't be argued, like costs of winter calving, winter feeding, blah, blah, blah. But I'm willing to bet that those who are calving then, are well aware of those costs or they wouldn't be in the business anymore. Or, maybe they have a sugar momma/daddy that needs tax write-offs. :lol: :lol: Again I say - Whatever Works. :wink:
"My calving season is better than yours, nah na-nah na-nah nah!!!"
Whatever works for you in your area. If you have to calve early because your cows go to BLM pasture or whatever you call it - so be it. We calved in Feb for years when I was a kid, so we have a heated barn here. When I took things over I didn't want to do it anymore because I was working off the farm and didn't want to have to babysit cows in cold weather. However, in our region April didn't - and still doesn't - make sense because we always seem to get wet, heavy snowstorms in April. I figured either stick with February or go all the way to May/June, and that's what we did. We don't regret it one bit, we keep our calves over and grass them, then keep them over again and grass finish them. This system works for us. Period.
Obviously there are some things that can't be argued, like costs of winter calving, winter feeding, blah, blah, blah. But I'm willing to bet that those who are calving then, are well aware of those costs or they wouldn't be in the business anymore. Or, maybe they have a sugar momma/daddy that needs tax write-offs. :lol: :lol: Again I say - Whatever Works. :wink:
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
leanin' H said:What some of you are forgetting is the public grazing issue. Most guys go on the mountain May 1st out here. You will be turning out on hundreds of thousands of acres of canyons and ridges. You wanta check on cattle calving in this senario? So we calve in February and wean in October when the cows come back off the mountain. Now do the math....... a 400 pound may calf brings $1.15 for a $460 bill. A 600 pound calf brings .92 at $552! Times a hundred bucks by 300 head and explain to me the "benefits" of calving later? I understand what ya'll do works swell, but there's lots and lots of ranches throughout the west who pick up what I'm putting down.
Soap, I have contempated movin' to town but then I sobered up! :wink: I'd rather walk through the cow crap and smell the sage than live the easy life!
Your right H, here lots of people go to government or Coop pastures and they have to have to cows calved out before take in usually in May. Most of them are farmers that also forget about the cows when they start field work in the spring.
Dylan Biggs
Well-known member
leanin' H said:What some of you are forgetting is the public grazing issue. Most guys go on the mountain May 1st out here. You will be turning out on hundreds of thousands of acres of canyons and ridges. You wanta check on cattle calving in this senario? So we calve in February and wean in October when the cows come back off the mountain. Now do the math....... a 400 pound may calf brings $1.15 for a $460 bill. A 600 pound calf brings .92 at $552! Times a hundred bucks by 300 head and explain to me the "benefits" of calving later? I understand what ya'll do works swell, but there's lots and lots of ranches throughout the west who pick up what I'm putting down.
Soap, I have contempated movin' to town but then I sobered up! :wink: I'd rather walk through the cow crap and smell the sage than live the easy life!
From what I can gather there is no single right answer to this question. Everyone has different circumstances, operations comprised of different enterprises and the resulting requirements for seasonal labor allocations and management styles they are comfortable with. What I know is what I am comfortable with and what works for me and my family and our area and our management. There is no free lunch it's always a trade off.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
Doesn't hurt to consider an alternative-I was a dyed in the wool winter calver for years.
Big Swede
Well-known member
Since we've already started this debate I am going to add a few more thoughts. I like rancherfred am not trying to convert anyone because I don't need the competition either. But I have to ask, if March 1st calving will get you 600# weaners and Feb 1st will get you 680# weaners why not go to Jan 1st and get 760# and if that is good why not Dec 1st and get 840# calves? When do we stop? Don't you see the trend, those pounds aren't free. It costs more money to feed a lactating cow, especially if you want her to rebreed. Then add the cost of dead calves and the bottom line gets a little murky. Are you really making more money with increased feed, labor, and death loss? The dollar value of all the weather related death loss of baby calves in North America every year could finance some small countries in the world I would guess. Just seems like such an unnecessary waste of resources. Maybe I'm just too conservative to see so many people struggle to make ends meet and then watch them do the same thing year after year and expect different results.
Now having said all that, it doesn't mean I am trying to criticize any of your operations or management methods, but if you are at the fork in the road like I was at one time and the decision to keep on keepin' on or else try something different comes up just remember there are options for some people who might need to change their management style.
OK, I'm done.
Now having said all that, it doesn't mean I am trying to criticize any of your operations or management methods, but if you are at the fork in the road like I was at one time and the decision to keep on keepin' on or else try something different comes up just remember there are options for some people who might need to change their management style.
OK, I'm done.
leanin' H
Well-known member
flyingS said:
Labor costs exactly the same weather your asleep or up checking cows! So unless you have a bunch of people on your payroll, where would you come up with labor costs? Do you write yourself a check for every hour you work on your place? I don't get that arguement at all! :roll: And the statement weaning weights don't mean anything is quite possibly the craziest thing ever spoken! We all get paid based on pounds, right. A 600 pound weaned calf is 200 pounds closer to finish weight than a 400 pounder, right. Thus the bigger check! Try telling the thousands of outfits who sell calves every fall as weaners that weaning weight is overated! :shock: And your right about april/march calves being close in size. But try a February 1 calf versus an mid April calf. More pounds equals more money to pay yourself in labor costs! :wink: Again, only been doing it this way for 5 generations and still in buisness. Do what you want at the Flying S but don't try to say what we do is wrong. Please!
gcreekrch
Well-known member
leanin' H said:flyingS said:
Labor costs exactly the same weather your asleep or up checking cows! So unless you have a bunch of people on your payroll, where would you come up with labor costs? Do you write yourself a check for every hour you work on your place? I don't get that arguement at all! :roll: And the statement weaning weights don't mean anything is quite possibly the craziest thing ever spoken! We all get paid based on pounds, right. A 600 pound weaned calf is 200 pounds closer to finish weight than a 400 pounder, right. Thus the bigger check! Try telling the thousands of outfits who sell calves every fall as weaners that weaning weight is overated! :shock: And your right about april/march calves being close in size. But try a February 1 calf versus an mid April calf. More pounds equals more money to pay yourself in labor costs! :wink: Again, only been doing it this way for 5 generations and still in buisness. Do what you want at the Flying S but don't try to say what we do is wrong. Please!
In my case H, I don't write myself a paycheck, I'm just naturally lazy. :wink:
We calved in February for several years, 2 to 3 feet of snow and -30 to 40 temps aren't enjoyable or condusive to more dollars per cow left in my pocket. The worst scour outbreak we had was in a deep snow Feb. when we couldn't get enough snow plowed to keep them scattered. We found that in this area the calves mostly just grew hair until they got to grass.
We then moved to March 10 and it still wasn't late enough. April 1 for the last 5 years and I believe the bulls will go out later by 2 weeks this year.
We have sacrificed only about 40 lbs in WW from Feb 10 to Apr 1. Less feed, less work, more live calves more than makes up for that.
Don't forget, your Jan-Feb weather is closer to our late March.
leanin' H
Well-known member
Big Swede said:
I keep hearing about piles of dead calves. :???: Never have saw one! Loses in this country run 3% and that's a yearly rate. I understand different climates. I understand not spending money on barns and such. I am not trying to convince anyone to start calving in Feb. I am just defending what lots of guys do because some of ya'll seem to think it cant be done. Maybe what us dumb westerners oughta do is calve in July and sell in August as veal. Think of the money we'd save only having a cow lactate for 20 or 30 days! :roll: Your side of this discussion takes in what works best for you. That simply doesnt work out here. The system i describe fits our environment perfectly. That may be the reason we do it! :wink: And some folks do calve in December in lots of warm places like Hawaii and Florida. They must be going broke too huh? :wink:
leanin' H
Well-known member
Dylan Biggs said:leanin' H said:What some of you are forgetting is the public grazing issue. Most guys go on the mountain May 1st out here. You will be turning out on hundreds of thousands of acres of canyons and ridges. You wanta check on cattle calving in this senario? So we calve in February and wean in October when the cows come back off the mountain. Now do the math....... a 400 pound may calf brings $1.15 for a $460 bill. A 600 pound calf brings .92 at $552! Times a hundred bucks by 300 head and explain to me the "benefits" of calving later? I understand what ya'll do works swell, but there's lots and lots of ranches throughout the west who pick up what I'm putting down.
Soap, I have contempated movin' to town but then I sobered up! :wink: I'd rather walk through the cow crap and smell the sage than live the easy life!
From what I can gather there is no single right answer to this question. Everyone has different circumstances, operations comprised of different enterprises and the resulting requirements for seasonal labor allocations and management styles they are comfortable with. What I know is what I am comfortable with and what works for me and my family and our area and our management. There is no free lunch it's always a trade off.
This is what I been trying to say.
With the added notation of just because you don't do it or cant do it doesnt mean the other guy is wrong. :wink: Thanks Dylan for vocalizing my thoughts! All though that might not be the best news for you as I've been an idiot most of my life. Dylan Biggs
Well-known member
leanin' H said:Dylan Biggs said:leanin' H said:What some of you are forgetting is the public grazing issue. Most guys go on the mountain May 1st out here. You will be turning out on hundreds of thousands of acres of canyons and ridges. You wanta check on cattle calving in this senario? So we calve in February and wean in October when the cows come back off the mountain. Now do the math....... a 400 pound may calf brings $1.15 for a $460 bill. A 600 pound calf brings .92 at $552! Times a hundred bucks by 300 head and explain to me the "benefits" of calving later? I understand what ya'll do works swell, but there's lots and lots of ranches throughout the west who pick up what I'm putting down.
Soap, I have contempated movin' to town but then I sobered up! :wink: I'd rather walk through the cow crap and smell the sage than live the easy life!
From what I can gather there is no single right answer to this question. Everyone has different circumstances, operations comprised of different enterprises and the resulting requirements for seasonal labor allocations and management styles they are comfortable with. What I know is what I am comfortable with and what works for me and my family and our area and our management. There is no free lunch it's always a trade off.
This is what I been trying to say.
Just my long winded way of saying that I pick up what you're putting down.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
leanin' H said:flyingS said:
Labor costs exactly the same weather your asleep or up checking cows! So unless you have a bunch of people on your payroll, where would you come up with labor costs? Do you write yourself a check for every hour you work on your place? I don't get that arguement at all! :roll: And the statement weaning weights don't mean anything is quite possibly the craziest thing ever spoken! We all get paid based on pounds, right. A 600 pound weaned calf is 200 pounds closer to finish weight than a 400 pounder, right. Thus the bigger check! Try telling the thousands of outfits who sell calves every fall as weaners that weaning weight is overated! :shock: And your right about april/march calves being close in size. But try a February 1 calf versus an mid April calf. More pounds equals more money to pay yourself in labor costs! :wink: Again, only been doing it this way for 5 generations and still in buisness. Do what you want at the Flying S but don't try to say what we do is wrong. Please!
I moved some cows up to Febuary calveing should have moved them all up. Sure it's cold but it's not muddy and you don't need a heated barn.I do have a barn but it's just a cement floored tin sided building.We feed corn silage all winter anyhow and those big calves come may and june will really utilize our good grass.My thoughts are if you selling bulls in the spring the customer may say one thing but truth be told they all want good stout bulls. March calved bulls will make breeding size easy enough but febuary will be bigger yet with less pushing to get them there.
I don't think its a one way fits all. At our place the mortgage payments and land rents are all due in November and December pretty much dictates that we need some cash flow that time of year.I don't buy the cow is eating more concept I know she is but what you people forget is when you winter over May/June calves that cost money also.
I have circumstances that makes corn a very low cost crop for us and it may fizzle away that quick also. I may be money ahead to sell all the silage and not have any cows but what fun would that be.
You do it for the money??? Not Hardly, I can make alot more money Welding and painting but I choose to run more beef cows being Happy in my life is more important.
Dylan Biggs
Well-known member
Denny said:
Good points. The one advantage using feed for calves as opposed to cows is that the young growing animal uses the feed for growth(gain) much more efficiently. Instead of putting the feed in to maintenance on the cow you are getting comparatively a lot better bang for your feed buck on calves.
Denny said:leanin' H said:flyingS said:
Labor costs exactly the same weather your asleep or up checking cows! So unless you have a bunch of people on your payroll, where would you come up with labor costs? Do you write yourself a check for every hour you work on your place? I don't get that arguement at all! :roll: And the statement weaning weights don't mean anything is quite possibly the craziest thing ever spoken! We all get paid based on pounds, right. A 600 pound weaned calf is 200 pounds closer to finish weight than a 400 pounder, right. Thus the bigger check! Try telling the thousands of outfits who sell calves every fall as weaners that weaning weight is overated! :shock: And your right about april/march calves being close in size. But try a February 1 calf versus an mid April calf. More pounds equals more money to pay yourself in labor costs! :wink: Again, only been doing it this way for 5 generations and still in buisness. Do what you want at the Flying S but don't try to say what we do is wrong. Please!
I moved some cows up to Febuary calveing should have moved them all up. Sure it's cold but it's not muddy and you don't need a heated barn.I do have a barn but it's just a cement floored tin sided building.We feed corn silage all winter anyhow and those big calves come may and june will really utilize our good grass.My thoughts are if you selling bulls in the spring the customer may say one thing but truth be told they all want good stout bulls. March calved bulls will make breeding size easy enough but febuary will be bigger yet with less pushing to get them there.
I don't think its a one way fits all. At our place the mortgage payments and land rents are all due in November and December pretty much dictates that we need some cash flow that time of year.I don't buy the cow is eating more concept I know she is but what you people forget is when you winter over May/June calves that cost money also.
I have circumstances that makes corn a very low cost crop for us and it may fizzle away that quick also. I may be money ahead to sell all the silage and not have any cows but what fun would that be.
You do it for the money??? Not Hardly, I can make alot more money Welding and painting but I choose to run more beef cows being Happy in my life is more important.
I would go so far and be so brave as to suggest that the timing of pounds of weaning weight can make a difference for an operation in the decision. There are definite seasonal price patterns that can be taken advantage of in different ways. In this country big calves that will finish for barbeque season command premium prices most falls. Later calving grass calves will command a premium into the grass market in March, and grass cattle have a seasonal high in August/September.
Combine that with labour and other considerations like family, grain farming, off farm employment, grazing resources and I have met very few people in this business who have made a poor decision about when to calve, no matter when they calve.
Dylan Biggs
Well-known member
Big Swede said:
Two years ago east central AB got hit hard with severe cold and wind for 10 days starting around the 17 or close to. Lots of guys had cattle out on open flat bald prairie and were calving. Conservative estimates of death loss 10,000. My neighbor was heavy into calving I wasn,t don't start till may 10 because of a similar wreck in 1990. At any rate I was helping him and needless to say even with his cows up at the yard behind wind shelters and with bedding it was a 24 hour routine. He was complaining hard. He really seems to throw himself into it. So I said just turn your bulls out 30 days later and you will cut the risk of ever having to go through this again to virtually zero. He was threatening to get out of cows all together. He said he was going to do it even marked it on his calender after figuring it wouldn't cost him that much just ship his calves a month later. He could still sell on the tape just a later delivery date calves would still be same age and weight at close of sale. So July roles around and I just "happen" to phone him and guess what? You guessed it he had turned his bulls out. I guess some habits are hard to break.
Big Swede
Well-known member
For all of you who love when you are calving please ignore me and my posts. The only ones I am talking to are the ones who are considering a change. I winter and early spring calved with my Dad for a combined 50+ years and no we weren't going broke and my Dad thought I was crazy to change to late April. He changed his mind after last spring when we had 3 winter storms in 2 weeks in March and April. My Grandfather moved to this area in 1912 and there wasn't a tree on the place when he homesteaded and one little barn. I know he calved after the weather warmed up. Anyway, HAPPY CALVING TO ALL!! Have a great day leanin' H.
Have a great day leanin' H.I used to calve early feb but now don't turn bulls out till July 20. I also used terminal Char when calving early. Some of my early calves were as old and as big when they went to pasture as the ones coming home are now.
I guess the easiest way to put it is I just grew out of the early calving. I got to old and lazy and my barn got to small. Last time I did it it was 30 below with the wind blowing for about 6 weeks. Even the guys in mid march didn't get a break. The barn got a way to small and it felt cruel tuning those poor little newborns out into that weather. You can get some real nice weather to calve early but that one nearly did me in.
It takes real good feed to keep a cow with a calf sucking. I never seem to have enough to go around.
I sure can't argue with with Denny on the purebreds. I hear lots talking about selling long yearling bulls but I wouldn't want all those bulls around fighting and don't see how they will get paid for it.
I guess the easiest way to put it is I just grew out of the early calving. I got to old and lazy and my barn got to small. Last time I did it it was 30 below with the wind blowing for about 6 weeks. Even the guys in mid march didn't get a break. The barn got a way to small and it felt cruel tuning those poor little newborns out into that weather. You can get some real nice weather to calve early but that one nearly did me in.
It takes real good feed to keep a cow with a calf sucking. I never seem to have enough to go around.
I sure can't argue with with Denny on the purebreds. I hear lots talking about selling long yearling bulls but I wouldn't want all those bulls around fighting and don't see how they will get paid for it.