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What a joke!

Is that DAIRY culls, or BEEF cow culls? There is a difference!

Is there any categorizing of culls, other than the term 'shells' for apparently very old, or damaged cows?

Some 'culls' are very healthy and go onto feed for a short term, and end up as lower cost steaks, roasts, etc. Some are marinated, and come out tasting mighty fine, judging by samples we have tasted. Have even guessed that some very acceptable steaks in small, inexpensive restaurants may have been from 'cull' cows.

It would be interesting to read, FACTS on how that is all sorted out and how meat from various quality animals is marketed, how it is used or 'enhanced' and where it meets the consumer plate.

mrj
 
Mike said:
I presently, as we speak, have a heifer that had an abnormal presentation last Friday and is down and will be. Paralyzed.

Called the local slaughter house to ask if I could bring her and grind her.

He said that he couldn't take a downer period. I explained that this cow was paralyzed trying to give birth and the meat would be for my personal consumption............... Didn't matter.

E-mailed the State vet today for some sort of exemption but wouldn't you know............today is a Holiday!!! :roll:

I've seen dairy cows spread eagle slip and fall in the dairy barn and never get up.

Nothing wrong with them at all. :roll:




BUT, but, but, what about ;


Emergence of a Single Case of BSE

The index cow had difficulty giving birth to a bull calf on November 29, 2003, and was
subsequently sent to slaughter. On December 9, 2003, the animal was observed to be
nonambulatory (a "downer" animal). Accordingly, as part of USDA's targeted BSE surveillance
program, brain samples were taken from the animal and sent to USDA's National Veterinary
Services Laboratories (NVSL) in Ames, Iowa, for testing. After NVSL's presumptive positive
finding, samples were hand-carried to the OIE reference laboratory in Weybridge, England, for
final confirmatory testing according to international animal health requirements. On the morning
of December 25, 2003, the OIE reference laboratory confirmed USDA's diagnosis of BSE.


http://www.aphis.usda.gov/newsroom/hot_issues/bse/downloads/WashingtonState_epi_final3-04.pdf


This message of reassurance was based on a key assertion: that the BSE-infected cow
was tested because it was a downer. Appearing on the Today Show on December 24,2003, you
told Katie Couric:
The cow had difficulty standing on its own, which is why it was a downer cow. My
understanding . . . is that this cow had given birth, and that it had not been able to get up
since them4
'u.s. Department of Agriculture, Banscript of News Conference with Agriculture
Secretary Ann M. Veneman on BSE (Dec. 23,2003) (online at
http://www.usda.gov/Newsroom/0433.03.html).
3 ~ . ~ . Department of Agriculture, Agriculture Secretary Ann M. Yeneman on FOX and
Friends (Dec. 24,2003) (online at http://www.usda.gov/NewsroodO440.03.html).
4 U.S. Department of Agriculture, Agriculture Secretary Ann M. Veneman 's Intewiew on
the Today Show (Dec. 24,2003) (online at http://www.usda.gov/Newsroom/0438.03.html).
The Honorable Ann M. Veneman
February 17,2004
Page 4
Following the announcement of the discovery of the BSE-infected cow, USDA stated
repeatedly that the cow was a downer. USDA officials making this statement included USDA
Chief Veterinarian Dr. Ron ~ e ~ a v e n ~ and Dr. Kenneth Petersen of the Food Safety Inspection
Service (FSIS).~ In a January 2004 briefing for the Committee on Government Reform's
(Committee) staff, USDA officials reiterated that the cow had not walked since giving birth.7
USDA's surveillance program is designed to sample only downer cows and cattle with
symptoms of central nervous system disease. There is universal agreement that the BSE-infected
cow did not have central nervous system symptoms. If the cow was also not a downer, then
under USDA's surveillance program, there would have been no reason for the cow to be tested
for BSE.

New Information about the BSE-Infected Cow.....


SNIP...


Mr. Ellestad's affidavit also provides additional evidence disputing the assertion that the
BSE-infected cow had not walked since giving birth several days before slaughter. Mr. Ellestad
recounts a January 19,2004, conversation with a Washington State official involved in USDA's
BSE surveillance program. The official spoke with the cow's former owner and later came to
visit Vern's Moses Lake Meats. Mr. Ellestad states:
The official informed all present that he had been present at meetings where the . . .
owner advised the USDA and other government officials that the BSE-positive cow had
given birth on November 29 and that the cow went through the milking shed for 3 or 4
days, which would have required that she be walking - there would be no other way for
her to go through the milking shed.15
Mr. Ellestad's account of this conversation is confirmed by Rick Parks, a GAP
investigator, who was also present at the meeting with the official. According to a
contemporaneous "investigative memo" written by Mr. Parks on the day of the conversation, the
Washington State official stated that "two herdsmen . . . confirmed to government officials that
the BSE positive Holstein walked onto the trailer when she was picked up the day of December
9,2003."'~


SNIP...


Need for Further Investigation
In a handwritten letter faxed on January 6,2004, to an Enforcement, Investigation and
Analysis Officer in USDA's Boulder District office, Mr. Ellestad stated that "the brain stem
sample was not taken because this animal was non-ambu~atory."~~ USDA has not released to
Congress or the public the contents of Mr. Ellestad's fax. As the oversight committee over all
federal agencies, it is the Committee's responsibility to ensure a complete and thorough
investigation of these claims. If it is confirmed the BSE-infected cow was not a downer, public
confidence in USDA may suffer. Confidence in the food supply requires that the public be able
to rely on the statements of USDA officials.
It is critically important that the contradictions between USDA's statements and the
information that we received from GAP be thoroughly investigated by Congress. We therefore
ask that you provide us with the following documentation:


FULL TEXT AT ;


http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20040608105007-72922.pdf


TSS
 
mrj said:
Is that DAIRY culls, or BEEF cow culls? There is a difference!

Is there any categorizing of culls, other than the term 'shells' for apparently very old, or damaged cows?

Some 'culls' are very healthy and go onto feed for a short term, and end up as lower cost steaks, roasts, etc. Some are marinated, and come out tasting mighty fine, judging by samples we have tasted. Have even guessed that some very acceptable steaks in small, inexpensive restaurants may have been from 'cull' cows.

It would be interesting to read, FACTS on how that is all sorted out and how meat from various quality animals is marketed, how it is used or 'enhanced' and where it meets the consumer plate.

mrj

Texture of meat in older animals is more course...is also said to have more "flavor". I have read that the anointed culinary experts, the French, like their beef from 4 to 5 year olds!!! :shock:
 
Although some of the mistreatment of the animals definitely needs to be hung on the workers, the issue of accepting downer animals has be be blamed on plant management. I think the rule of not accepting downers is quite clear and the people at the unloading chute have the right to turn them away.
 
Richard Doolittle said:
Although some of the mistreatment of the animals definitely needs to be hung on the workers, the issue of accepting downer animals has be be blamed on plant management. I think the rule of not accepting downers is quite clear and the people at the unloading chute have the right to turn them away.

How do you know that these cattle didn't walk off the truck and become downers after they got to the packer?
 
RobertMac, I'm aware that older animals have more flavor and the more coarse muscle strands.

It's the actual uses of various age/quality/fat distribution of the animals called 'cutters', 'canners' or 'culls' that are of interest to me.

We get most of our family beef from 'retired' Longhorn roping steers from three year olds on up, with 7 or older Scottish Highlanders being the oldest we have used. We love the flavor, but some people find it too 'gamey'.

Over the past 60 or more years, I've eaten beef from cattle of all ages and qualities and most breeds, (including dairy) of beef, with exception of Japanese exotic Wagu and other similar cattle; from veal chops to Ruths' Chris Steakhouse finest, to 'old steer' steaks, to home canned beef, and found them ALL wonderful, or not; depending on the processing, and even more, the preparation. And that includes some 'downers' that were home butchered in less than pristine surroundings back in the late '40s and early '50s!

Those experiences make me believe there could well be more than just the feeding, raising, and quality of the cattle that makes for a great beef eating experience.

mrj
 
Mike said:
Richard Doolittle said:
Although some of the mistreatment of the animals definitely needs to be hung on the workers, the issue of accepting downer animals has be be blamed on plant management. I think the rule of not accepting downers is quite clear and the people at the unloading chute have the right to turn them away.

How do you know that these cattle didn't walk off the truck and become downers after they got to the packer?

:???: :???: :???:

I don't know that and you don't know that, but if there's as much of a problem there as is being portrayed then it's not very likely that these cattle walked off the trucks and layed down and wouldn't get up again.
 
mrj said:
We get most of our family beef from 'retired' Longhorn roping steers from three year olds on up, with 7 or older Scottish Highlanders being the oldest we have used. We love the flavor, but some people find it too 'gamey'.

Could it be that most folks don't know what "REAL BEEF" taste like?
The 'gamey' taste that most are critical of grassfed is actually the "REAL BEEF" taste. Starch trends to make things taste bland, which is what the processed food industry wants...less taste offends less consumers!!!
Grassfed...real beef the way God made it!!!! :D

mrj said:
...and found them ALL wonderful, or not; depending on the processing, and even more, the preparation.

Absolutely...lean beef can be prepared to taste wonderful and be juicy...prime and high-choice beef can be ruined...granted, it's harder to to both. That is why restaurants pay premiums for prime/high-choice...harder for the minimum wage steak flipper to ruin the steak! :wink:

mrj said:
Those experiences make me believe there could well be more than just the feeding, raising, and quality of the cattle that makes for a great beef eating experience.

I wouldn't discount feeding and raising to get quality...I think a major factor is to minimize stress of all kinds.
 
Didn't realize that it was so tough down there, that cattlemen had to feed thier own families downers, crocks, cancer eyes, lumpjaws. EAT BEEF. I use these unfortunates for coyote bait or landfill, didn't realize there was a market for them feeding US cowmen!
 
Richard Doolittle said:
Mike said:
Richard Doolittle said:
Although some of the mistreatment of the animals definitely needs to be hung on the workers, the issue of accepting downer animals has be be blamed on plant management. I think the rule of not accepting downers is quite clear and the people at the unloading chute have the right to turn them away.

How do you know that these cattle didn't walk off the truck and become downers after they got to the packer?

:???: :???: :???:

I don't know that and you don't know that, but if there's as much of a problem there as is being portrayed then it's not very likely that these cattle walked off the trucks and layed down and wouldn't get up again.

Read this. It tells you that the animals had passed one antemortem test at some point, which was probably on arrival.

"Statement by Secretary of Agriculture Ed Schafer Regarding Hallmark/Westland Meat Packing Company Two Year Product Recall

February 17, 2008

"Today, USDA is announcing additional actions as a result of the ongoing investigation at Hallmark/Westland Meat Packing Company. USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) has evidence that Hallmark/Westland did not consistently contact the FSIS public health veterinarian in situations in which cattle became non-ambulatory after passing ante-mortem inspection, which is not compliant with FSIS regulations. Because the cattle did not receive complete and proper inspection FSIS has determined them to be unfit for human food and the company is conducting a recall."
 
Plain sad, no matter what the circumstances... investigative finding? employee payback? .... SAD indeed!

Sure makes things simple for the USDA when Canada mandates testing of all animals over 30 months, and the US is forced to follow.... (that'd be a first)...

Everyone can look back on this video and blame the packer for the BSE that future testing will find....
 
gcreekrch said:
Didn't realize that it was so tough down there, that cattlemen had to feed thier own families downers, crocks, cancer eyes, lumpjaws. EAT BEEF. I use these unfortunates for coyote bait or landfill, didn't realize there was a market for them feeding US cowmen!
We just kill them here, box them up and export them back to you. No offense intended toward our normally well mannered Canadian friends.
 
Mike said:
Richard Doolittle said:
Mike said:
How do you know that these cattle didn't walk off the truck and become downers after they got to the packer?

:???: :???: :???:

I don't know that and you don't know that, but if there's as much of a problem there as is being portrayed then it's not very likely that these cattle walked off the trucks and layed down and wouldn't get up again.

Read this. It tells you that the animals had passed one antemortem test at some point, which was probably on arrival.

"Statement by Secretary of Agriculture Ed Schafer Regarding Hallmark/Westland Meat Packing Company Two Year Product Recall

February 17, 2008

"Today, USDA is announcing additional actions as a result of the ongoing investigation at Hallmark/Westland Meat Packing Company. USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) has evidence that Hallmark/Westland did not consistently contact the FSIS public health veterinarian in situations in which cattle became non-ambulatory after passing ante-mortem inspection, which is not compliant with FSIS regulations. Because the cattle did not receive complete and proper inspection FSIS has determined them to be unfit for human food and the company is conducting a recall."

I'm not in a position to debate the exact happenings because I don't know all the facts and I doubt whether you do either. The statement by the Secretary of Ag is pretty general.
 

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