• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

What became of Econ 101

DiamondSCattleCo said:
Oldtimer said:
I can guarantee you if you allowed US ranchers/speculators to buy land in SK-- the value would be much higher....And I don't know where there is much for laws not allowing foreign ownership in the States....At one time the Japs owned several ranch's, elevators and business's in Montana....

Again I ask what that has to do with YOUR high land values?

And the Japanese own land in the US the exact same way they own land in Canada. They form US corporations, that are owned by Japanese corporations. The exact same thing happens in Canada.

Rod

You were comparing valuations of land and the cost of production...I know it was just accident that you forgot you have laws that prohibit US or other country speculators from buying land (which has had a huge impact on our US prices)- since only Canadian ag producers are allowed to own it in Sk.....
 
IL Rancher said:
I don't know if there is much land left anywhere that can pencil out to buy just for cattle (Or ag in general) unless you have some base already in your control and paid for. This place sold for what would have been, to keep in numbers that you were using, 320k a 1/4 sectio in 2000... Most ground around here today would sell for 720k 1/4 section.. Yowie...

The main difference is on 160 acres you can run a heck of a lot of cows. This is mostly corn ground mind you but if you relaly wanted to grass it out you get about 10 AUM's per acre. Hay could push the 8-9 ton rate pretty easy according to folks who have hayed it (Our more marginal land has done 7 tons if fertilized well and good growing conditions).. We figured at one point we could sell this place for... 6.5 to 7 million if the FIL wanted to and move out west... That money wouldn't be able to get a place with this much produciton ability out there for the most part.. At least not where he was looking..

Pasture around here is going for $300, and you generally need 13 acres/AUM. Try to pencil that out.
 
Per animal unit or per animal unit month sandhusker? Either way, that is what I am kind of talking about.. I don't even pay attention at all to price per acre when I am looking around at stuff because iproduciton value is so much more important if you want to run cattle. I really don't know if anything, anymore really pencils out great in the states. With hunites buying up ground to hunt, land exchanges and speculation driving up ground all over it is hard to imagine.. I knew of a place last year that was for sale in Southern Illinois that would have run 1200-1400 cows with some improved soi fertility.. I think it was listed for 5.5 million.. So even at the high end you were talking just shy of 4k per pair... Places out west that I saw that were the same price were running 400 or so pair or well in excess of 10k a pair. Nuts...

Almost sounds like the crazy productive farm land that has no scenic or hunting value is looking better and better every day, lol... Stll 200 bushels at 4 bucks would be hard to match right now with catle prices.
 
IL Rancher said:
I really don't know if anything, anymore really pencils out great in the states.

AND what does value of land have to do with earning a living on land that is already owned?????????????????

The fact is that NAFTA opened our doors to imports and the increased supplies (with other factors) crashed the price of live cattle.
 
RobertMac said:
The fact is that NAFTA opened our doors to imports and the increased supplies (with other factors) crashed the price of live cattle.

Yep- And it was really tough being up here by the border and seeing the looks on the faces of those being foreclosed on or having to sell out when Trans X truck or bullhauler after another went down the highways all headed south....

Really took a toll to the young guys trying to start out..... :(
 
Oldtimer said:
RobertMac said:
The fact is that NAFTA opened our doors to imports and the increased supplies (with other factors) crashed the price of live cattle.

Yep- And it was really tough being up here by the border and seeing the looks on the faces of those being foreclosed on or having to sell out when Trans X truck or bullhauler after another went down the highways all headed south....

Really took a toll to the young guys trying to start out..... :(

Cry us a river Oldtimer it ain't no different up here.
 
I don't like seeing any foreclosure, either. But I also don't think everyone has the same management skills or face the same challenges. Robert Mac for example is doing something a little different to succeed. Oldtimer supplemented with off-farm jobs, etc. etc. Management skills are rewarded by a level of profit or loss. If NAFTA was to blame why are there still active producers.
 
Oldtimer said:
You were comparing valuations of land and the cost of production...I know it was just accident that you forgot you have laws that prohibit US or other country speculators from buying land (which has had a huge impact on our US prices)- since only Canadian ag producers are allowed to own it in Sk.....

Which are the exact same rules that your country has. You missed the part where you must form a US corporation to buy land in the US. I can't walk down south and simply buy land. Same goes for Saskatchewan. If, as you say, foreign ownership of lands isn't possible in Canada, how is it that Cargill, Tyson, Dodge, Chevrolet, and Ford all own lands and plants in Canada?

And I wasn't comparing cost of production, just land costs of a start up. Your land costs are higher, making it extremely tough to start out (same as up here) and your production costs are on the rise (same as up here). So I fail to understand how your eastern companies buying your land and driving up your costs is Canada's fault. If you wanna buy cheap SK land, form an SK corporation for 300 bucks and buy to your heart's content.

Rod
 
RobertMac said:
IL Rancher said:
I really don't know if anything, anymore really pencils out great in the states.

AND what does value of land have to do with earning a living on land that is already owned?????????????????

The fact is that NAFTA opened our doors to imports and the increased supplies (with other factors) crashed the price of live cattle.


Absolutely nithign with the situation down in Miss that you are talking about... I was more comparing cost of a start up wth rods cost of a start up. That is all.. That is all..
 
Oldtimer said:
Rod- A Canadian has to own 51% share of the corportion or company....

And is exactly the same as the US and a few dozen other countries that I'm aware of. You still haven't told me how this results in YOUR high land prices and YOUR increased costs of production.

Quit blaming Canada for everything OT and start looking for YOUR internal problems that are raising your land and production costs.

Rod
 
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Oldtimer said:
Rod- A Canadian has to own 51% share of the corportion or company....

And is exactly the same as the US and a few dozen other countries that I'm aware of. You still haven't told me how this results in YOUR high land prices and YOUR increased costs of production.

Quit blaming Canada for everything OT and start looking for YOUR internal problems that are raising your land and production costs.

Rod

It doesn't... It results in you being able to keep cheap land prices- to be used for Ag only...Which is an Ag subsidy...And I believe you are wrong about land ownership...I believe if you can slap down the bucks- you can buy it in the US.....

Please show me the law that restricts me from selling my land to you since you are Canadian.....
 
It appears as though your 51% idea was a little off. A snippet for you:

"Foreign ownership of companies of Canada has long been a controversial political issue in Canada. Concerns regarding foreign ownership generally regard ownership by individuals or companies based in the United States, though foreign ownership occurs from entities and individuals based in other countries as well.

Note that the exact definition of "foreign-owned" is debated, and that this article uses the working definition established at foreign ownership. Some estimates state that more than 50% of the petroleum and gas industry and more than 50% of all manufacturing in Canada is foreign-owned and foreign-controlled. In no foreign country does Canadian investment play a dominant role. Canada's largest foreign investment, which is in the US, gives Canadians control over only a minute portion of the US economy, in contrast to the very large fraction of the Canadian economy that is controlled by American interests.

Of note is that Canada's largest companies by value, and largest employers, tend to be foreign owned in a way that is more typical of a developing nation than a G-8 member. The best example is the automotive sector, one of Canada's most important industries. It is dominated by American, German, and Japanese giants. Although this situation is not unique to Canada in the global context, it is unique among G-8 nations, and many other relativly small nations also have national automotive companies such as Sweden's Saab or South Korea's Kia and Hyundai.

Contents [hide]
1 Partial list of foreign-owned companies of Canada
1.1 Foreign owned companies among Canada's current largest companies
1.2 Former major Canadian Companies acquired by foreign owners
1.3 Other examples
2 Quick facts
3 See also
4 External links



[edit] Partial list of foreign-owned companies of Canada

[edit] Foreign owned companies among Canada's current largest companies
Main article: Branch plant economy
General Motors Canada, Canada's largest automotive manufacturer, owned by Detroit-based, General Motors
Wal-Mart Canada, wholy owned by Wal-Mart of the US
Toyota Canada Inc. owned by Japan's Toyota
Ford Motor Company of Canada, owned by the American Ford company
Imperial Oil, controlled by ExxonMobil, which owns 69.8% of its stock.
DaimlerChrysler Canada owned by German-American giant DaimlerChrysler
Shell Canada, which is 22% public owned, with the remainder indirectly owned by Royal Dutch Shell.
British Petroleum Canada, owned by British Petroleum
Mitsui and Company, part of the Japanese Mitsui empire
Honda Canada Inc., owned by Honda of Japan
Ultramar fuels, owned by US-based Valero
Costco, whose Canadian operations are the 7th largest private company in Canada as of 2006, is based in Seattle
Husky Energy, a majority stake in Husky Energy is owned by Hong Kong billionaire Li Ka Shing and his holding company Hutchison Whampoa
Labatt Brewing Company purchased by Belgian brewer Interbrew in 1995
Hudsons Bay Company, Canada's largest retailer, and North America's oldest corporation (est. 1670), sold to U.S. investor Jerry Zucker in 2006.
ING Bank of Canada, the largest foreign bank in Canada, formed by the purchase of several small Canadian companies, controlled by the Dutch ING Group
Sears Canada, one the largest retailers (created by buying old Simpson's stores), controlled by the US Sears Holdings Corporation
IBM Canada, owned by IBM
Safeway Canada supermarkets, owned by Safeway Inc.
Cargill Ltd. owned by Cargill of Minnesota
McDonald's Canada, owned by McDonald's
Pratt & Whitney Canada owned by US United Technologies Corporation
Nissan Canada, owned by Nissan Motors of Japan
Parmalat Canada owned by Parmalat of Italy "

So tell me again how foreign corporations can't buy our lands? :roll: :roll:

OT, you need to back your rabid Americanism with some solid factual information.

Rod
 
Does that cover Agricultural land under the SK law...The Canuck attorney told us we had to have a Canadian partner with 51% ownership....
 
The deal with land in Sask. is you have to have resident status to buy more than 1/2 section.

The law is designed to keep people living in the middle of nowhere.

Lots of Albertans would buy up summer land and truck the cows out there if they could. Add a resident status to it, not as many want to move there.

If the land was sold off to non residents, taxes would have to increase to such a level you wouldn't be able to afford to continue to own the land.
 
Jason said:
The deal with land in Sask. is you have to have resident status to buy more than 1/2 section.

The law is designed to keep people living in the middle of nowhere.

Lots of Albertans would buy up summer land and truck the cows out there if they could. Add a resident status to it, not as many want to move there.

If the land was sold off to non residents, taxes would have to increase to such a level you wouldn't be able to afford to continue to own the land.

Sorry Jason but you are wrong on that.

The Price family of Sunterra farms don't live in Saskatchewan and they bought a heck of a lot more land last spring around Yorkton than a 1/2 section. Lots of Albertans are buying land in Saskatchewan but unfortunately not all are moving here.
 
Bill said:
Sorry Jason but you are wrong on that.

The Price family of Sunterra farms don't live in Saskatchewan and they bought a heck of a lot more land last spring around Yorkton than a 1/2 section. Lots of Albertans are buying land in Saskatchewan but unfortunately not all are moving here.

Bill, I'm not sure if Jason is completely wrong on that, however the loophole is that a Saskatchewan or Canadian corporation can buy as much as they desire, wherever they desire.

There may indeed be restrictions on sole proprietorships, however its been so long since I looked at laws concerning sole proprietorships, that I have no idea.

Rod
 
Someone in the family or in the ownership has to have a primary residence in the province.

I have 2 neighbors that bought land out there, they have kids that are married and live there, making it so 1 couple covers the land for both families.

If that wasn't the case, I know of many Alberta ranchers that would buy up sections of land. Land here hasn't been at $50,000 per 1/4 for a long time.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top