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What brand of mineral do you feed?

Faster horses said:
LazyWP said:
It really makes no difference to what you guys do. Every one of you claim to be progressive, yet very few want to do any research on your own. YOu would rather sit back and listen to your local sales rep tell you what you need to feed. Vigortone has done a bunch of research, and so have other companies. I am just saying that there are ways to cut the price of your mineral program, and still have it meet your needs.
In this area, we are short on Copper, that we are adding 25ppm to sheep. There are other areas, that don't need to feed mineral, or so I hear.
Click to expand...

Ranchers are busy people. They depend on us to provide the research, especially
when they find someone they can trust to tell them right. When it was available,
I subscribed to a nutrition newsletter by Dave Wieland (who was the consulting
nutritionist for BEEF magazine) so that I had more sources at hand. The information
in that newsletter, by an INDEPENDENT person, pretty much correlated with
what Vigortone teaches us. Also, John Patterson, MSU, has done the major
work in Montana finding out about the need for mineral in Montana. Montana
is short of copper and zinc as a whole. I talk
with him from time to time as well. Mark Peterson, now at Ft. Keogh, is another
person I have talked with when he was in New Mexico.
I take this very seriously and
want to pass along correct information. Vigortone is the oldest mineral company
in the US. Last year was their 100th year. They are industry leaders and they
didn't get that way by passing along fraudlent information. They have held
ranch trials (yes, right on different ranches, not it a lab situation) and have
published their findings. Show me another mineral company who has done that.

Have you ever heard of the NRC? We use their information too. However, they
have not published anything new for quite some time now. Vigortone is
doing research all the time. I've known times when they have send product
to an independent lab.

Our product speaks for itself, or ranchers in our area wouldn't continue to use
it. They are people whose livestock make their living. I'm very happy to
be able to work with them! I (we) have worked to earn their trust, as I'm
sure your mineral rep has done with you.

BTW, that $200/ton salt is when it is on sale. Regualar price here is comparable
to the price in Denny's area.

Now the way I undertand it, the cows you feed the mineral to, are not yours,
correct? So is the owner the one who buys and chooses the mineral?
The price you posted is higher than ours, especially
when it's on sale and we have a sale for about 3 months in the spring and 3 months in the fall.
Our customers stock up then. For 5 ton orders or more, the truck goes in; for smaller orders
WE DELIVER IT for no extra charge. You see, we are ranchers and we understand
the business. Good service+excellent product=success.
We can and do make custom made mineral; but for the most part, it isn't
needed in our area. If you will notice I never knock custom made mineral.

FWIW
Click to expand...

Right on, FH! I see great minds think alike! :wink: 8) :D
 
loomixguy said:
Faster horses said:
LazyWP said:
It really makes no difference to what you guys do. Every one of you claim to be progressive, yet very few want to do any research on your own. YOu would rather sit back and listen to your local sales rep tell you what you need to feed. Vigortone has done a bunch of research, and so have other companies. I am just saying that there are ways to cut the price of your mineral program, and still have it meet your needs.
In this area, we are short on Copper, that we are adding 25ppm to sheep. There are other areas, that don't need to feed mineral, or so I hear.
Click to expand...

Ranchers are busy people. They depend on us to provide the research, especially
when they find someone they can trust to tell them right. When it was available,
I subscribed to a nutrition newsletter by Dave Wieland (who was the consulting
nutritionist for BEEF magazine) so that I had more sources at hand. The information
in that newsletter, by an INDEPENDENT person, pretty much correlated with
what Vigortone teaches us. Also, John Patterson, MSU, has done the major
work in Montana finding out about the need for mineral in Montana. Montana
is short of copper and zinc as a whole. I talk
with him from time to time as well. Mark Peterson, now at Ft. Keogh, is another
person I have talked with when he was in New Mexico.
I take this very seriously and
want to pass along correct information. Vigortone is the oldest mineral company
in the US. Last year was their 100th year. They are industry leaders and they
didn't get that way by passing along fraudlent information. They have held
ranch trials (yes, right on different ranches, not it a lab situation) and have
published their findings. Show me another mineral company who has done that.

Have you ever heard of the NRC? We use their information too. However, they
have not published anything new for quite some time now. Vigortone is
doing research all the time. I've known times when they have send product
to an independent lab.

Our product speaks for itself, or ranchers in our area wouldn't continue to use
it. They are people whose livestock make their living. I'm very happy to
be able to work with them! I (we) have worked to earn their trust, as I'm
sure your mineral rep has done with you.

BTW, that $200/ton salt is when it is on sale. Regualar price here is comparable
to the price in Denny's area.

Now the way I undertand it, the cows you feed the mineral to, are not yours,
correct? So is the owner the one who buys and chooses the mineral?
The price you posted is higher than ours, especially
when it's on sale and we have a sale for about 3 months in the spring and 3 months in the fall.
Our customers stock up then. For 5 ton orders or more, the truck goes in; for smaller orders
WE DELIVER IT for no extra charge. You see, we are ranchers and we understand
the business. Good service+excellent product=success.
We can and do make custom made mineral; but for the most part, it isn't
needed in our area. If you will notice I never knock custom made mineral.

FWIW
Click to expand...

Right on, FH! I see great minds think alike! :wink: 8) :D
Click to expand...

I think too, :wink: that both of us have a quality product and we sincerely
CARE about our customers and want them to make money with their livestock.

This sentence you made was profound:


"A mineral program doesn't need to meet the producer's needs...IT NEEDS TO MEET THE COW'S NEEDS!"
 
In order to sell a product and be successful you have to believe in it. That being said, you will do a better job if you have experience to back claims up. I still believe every producer should do their own research and educate themselves, before they buy in to a sales pitch. A penny saved is a penny earned. I never stop bidding stuff, it keeps my pencil sharp and my suppliers as well. It doesn't mean I change every year, just means I know what it is worth. Paying to have salt put into mineral is ridiculous. If mineral was 1000/ton and salt is 112/ton it cost 20/hd/yr more to feed mineral than salt. That cost is obviously increased with mineral consumption due to salt craving. It's one thing if consumption is due to mineral need and another if it is due to salt craving.
 
Since mineral supplementation is the topic of choice, does anybody use the MultiMin products. It is the injectable trace mineral product. There are a lot of claims out there but has anybody used it and seem the positive results.

I am thinking of giving it to replacement heifers before breeding, and yes they have all the free choice mineral and salt they can eat.

Thought if it did help conception it would be worth the cost.
 
$2.50 per 50 pounds of salt BS.You must dig it up out back as the freight would tally damn near that much.If your going to tell stories make them a bit believeable. My salt cost between $5 and $6 for 50#s picked up 3 miles from home frieght is figured in on that price.I could buy salt cheaper at Cutler in Duluth by the semi load then add $600 frieght to get it here.Might save 50 cents a bag.
Click to expand...

I get salt by the pallet, 49 bags per pallet and it cost me $2.50 per bag the last one I ordered. That is thru my mineral dealer and out to the salt mine 90 miles away.
 
Faster horses said:
LazyWP said:
I will say BULL S*** to your company buying salt cheaper. I have brokered enough salt to know the prices. The only reason any mineral company would add any salt, is because its cheap, and the average cowman has been led to believe that salt must be in their mineral. A generic, one size fits all program is a sales persons dream, and for the most part does little for the individual cowman.
You can get most of your samples tested through your extension office, so it isn't all that expensive, nor hard to do.
I am not slamming Vigortone, nor any other mineral company, but if you guys are serious about trying to improve your efficiency, breed up, and overall herd health, do your research. Vigortone HAS done the research, and meets your generic needs, but I DO BELIEVE a person can go way beyond generic, basic needs.
Click to expand...

If you have brokered salt, then surely you know that you can't buy salt for
$50 ton any more. In our area salt is at least $200/ton. I have sat with
ranchers and figured out the cost of our mineral with almost no salt and added
the price of the salt in and we have found the mineral with the salt added is
CHEAPER!!

I don't think you have any idea of the service we perform for our
customers. And if our so called 'generic' mineral doesn't do the job, why do
we have so many satisfied customers? Even the veterinarian buys our mineral
and a few years ago, he didn't believe in feeding mineral. He has seen it for
himself how much a good mineral program enchances herd health. We still
have our very first customer, so that says a LOT. Our customers run from
50 head to 1200 head and we treat them all fairly, as we would like to be
treated.

Yes, you can get your samples tested through the extension office and by that
if you are inferring that we might not be honest with what we find; I will tell you
that we send all our samples to an INDEPENDENT LAB. One with a much faster
turn around than the one our extension office uses. We even provide the
customer with a pre-paid envelope to send their samples in.

We also do fecal samples and that has been most enlightening.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the end of the subject. I refrained from joining
in until my name was mentioned. And I'm not sorry I posted some information
that SOMEONE might get some help out of.

I didn't appreciate your BS remark. That was not necessary.
Click to expand...

FH, I have fed both Vigortone 3V2S and 3V4S. There is not much difference in the ingredient list except one has higher salt content. (Can't remember which this morning?)

I do remember that the mineral with higher salt content actually cost slightly more than the mineral with less salt. That made no sense to me. If it was available, I always chose the 50 lb bag with more mineral/less salt in it, and it cost less to boot.
 
eatbeef said:
$2.50 per 50 pounds of salt BS.You must dig it up out back as the freight would tally damn near that much.If your going to tell stories make them a bit believeable. My salt cost between $5 and $6 for 50#s picked up 3 miles from home frieght is figured in on that price.I could buy salt cheaper at Cutler in Duluth by the semi load then add $600 frieght to get it here.Might save 50 cents a bag.
Click to expand...

I get salt by the pallet, 49 bags per pallet and it cost me $2.50 per bag the last one I ordered. That is thru my mineral dealer and out to the salt mine 90 miles away.
Click to expand...

I don't remember prices or even the brand of salt (which is really immaterial). Anyway a local place is advertising on the radio to get your orders in now for pallet quantites of your salt needs. The salt will come in next month. Supposed to their best price of the year. FWIW
 
I have fed Nutra-Lix and Snowy Mountain Mineral, both at the recommendation of my veterinarian.

I think in general it is best to at least feed a mineral mix that is formulated for your region, and feed enough of it. I do not try and stretch it, free choice is free choice. I probably waste a few dollars.

Some say add white salt to decrease intake, others say add white salt to increase intake. I mix 50:50 in tubs and let the chips fall where they may. But, I do feed the mix free choice.
 
FWIW......Most veterinarians AREN'T nutritionists.

Plenty imagine they are, but never took a nutrition class after completing their undergraduate work. What they actually know about nutrition is no more than any other ag college grad with a degree. I know for a fact that Kansas State has put plenty of DVM's out into the world erroneously imagining they are also nutritionists. Epic Fail.
 
I am a veterinarian. There is much I do not know but I do have a solid year of animal nutrition at a Big Ten University under my belt. Plus countless hours of continuing education through 2013, much in ruminant nutrition. I at least have the basics, enough to make informed choices.

Still, I hire cattle veterinaraians and nutritionists such as Dr. Patterson when I need advice above the baseline. I never disregard what others may know and can teach me, learning is ongoing.
 
I might also add that veterinary nutrition in many veterinary colleges is taught in the veterinary program, as well as undergrad. It is not true that veterinarians are simply taught the same as undergrads, many have an excellent background and electives in nutrition. Having said that, no one person knows it all whether veterinarian or not. That is why I am a veterinarian but still seek the advice of other veterinarians and nutritionists such as Dr. Patterson. I am still open to learning.
 
Good to know that you have things under control. I have had the misfortune of trying to deal with some of your colleagues who "knew it all" and refused to be informed or up to date. Thankfully, these folks are no longer practicing. They actually gave recommendations to clients that were bass ackwards and caused financial hurt.
 
flyingS said:
FH, I did not wean 100% of calves born, I weaned 98.6% out of 1000 hd. I am not bragging, you called me out, so I will give you the facts. I calved those cows with the help of my wife and my dog Maddie. I could of been gone for a 1/3 to 1/2 that time helping neighbors brand and working other cattle on the ranch, leaving my wife home alone. She not only calved but started the first 590 hd on rotation at 30 days while calving the remainder, Maddie helped where she could. When you have that many calves and that little man power you won't save them all. My point is that had I the time to do nothing but live with my cows, I might have done better than I did. As it stood we made a plan and managed through it and did pretty well anyway. That success was attributed to hard work and dedication, good knowledgeable help that knows the importance of stocknanship, and good pasture management. The cows were not lot calved and calves were segregated by age trying not to get more than 200 in a group. We did not scour guard the cows either. Mineral had nothing to do with any of it. My wife made sure every calf sucked every day until they were a week old. When we rotated through our pastures, moving at a maximum every 4 days, our pairs stayed mated even with almost 600 in a group. They always had plenty of grass and water, despite being in the middle of a drought.
No doubt you have knowledge of your product, but that does not mean that there isn't a better one or a more effecient way to gain results. I was talking about anyone who sells a product, it is there job to sell the product line not present more feasible options. Maybe your product is the most affordable in your area, I don't know because I don't live there. While you may not sell someone mineral that doesn't need it, you aren't going to tell them they can get the same results from a more affordable product. I am sure you get a comission on your sells, just as I get paid for services I provide.
Sorry for highjacking the thread.
Click to expand...

"hen we rotated through our pastures, moving at a maximum every 4 days, our pairs stayed mated even with almost 600 in a group."

FlyingS---600 total or 600 pairs? Been wondering about optimum size to rotate thru pivots. Very interested--thanks--LJ
 
flyingS said:
No doubt you have knowledge of your product, but that does not mean that there isn't a better one or a more effecient way to gain results. I was talking about anyone who sells a product, it is there job to sell the product line not present more feasible options. Maybe your product is the most affordable in your area, I don't know because I don't live there. While you may not sell someone mineral that doesn't need it, you aren't going to tell them they can get the same results from a more affordable product. I am sure you get a comission on your sells, just as I get paid for services I provide.
Sorry for highjacking the thread.
Click to expand...

I for one can speak for FH and 2 other Vigortone reps. They all fully knew that I would never pay the freight to get their product delivered here yet they all took time out of their days to give advice freely to someone with a couple of problems to solve.

Twice!

Sometimes it pays to ask questions first than assume that everyone is out for the almighty dollar. :wink:

My problems haven't all dissappeared but they have alieviated a bunch. :D
 
gcreekrch said:
flyingS said:
No doubt you have knowledge of your product, but that does not mean that there isn't a better one or a more effecient way to gain results. I was talking about anyone who sells a product, it is there job to sell the product line not present more feasible options. Maybe your product is the most affordable in your area, I don't know because I don't live there. While you may not sell someone mineral that doesn't need it, you aren't going to tell them they can get the same results from a more affordable product. I am sure you get a comission on your sells, just as I get paid for services I provide.
Sorry for highjacking the thread.
Click to expand...

I for one can speak for FH and 2 other Vigortone reps. They all fully knew that I would never pay the freight to get their product delivered here yet they all took time out of their days to give advice freely to someone with a couple of problems to solve.

Twice!

Sometimes it pays to ask questions first than assume that everyone is out for the almighty dollar. :wink:

My problems haven't all dissappeared but they have alieviated a bunch. :D
Click to expand...

Glad to have helped, gcreek. But you get credit for staying open-minded
and wanting to know, instead of giving an opinion. That's how a person
learns things--by being open minded. :D
 

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