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what exactly is this?

jigs

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Mar 17, 2005
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Location
KANSAS
while cleaning out the old barn I stumbled onto this blinder. there is a set of two of these. they say US on the side, curious if any of you horse-literate folks know if it is actually a piece from the military or if it is a common item

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Army driving bridle- used on the wagon and artillary teams.....I used to have a couple dozen of those old bits hanging on the barn walls...
 
so to have the US on it, it must be a military item then?

just thought it was odd....we never had an army out post close to here....gonna have to try and see how it got here.
 
jigs said:
so to have the US on it, it must be a military item then?

just thought it was odd....we never had an army out post close to here....gonna have to try and see how it got here.

Be my guess- thats how they stamped all their leather stuff...I once saw a website that showed by how the US was stamped, you could age the production date of the article...If I remember right they said the Army used different type stamps for different time periods....

I think a lot of that stuff was sold as surplus after the phasing out of the horse...Used to be quite a bit of harness, saddle bags, bridles, horse gear, etc. with US stamps on them....
 
why thank you, I do spend alot of time at night with moisturizer and try to never go out with out my leather gloves. A man must take care of him self !!


yes FH please see what the value is if it is not too much trouble.


sorry NR, I have a date for the prom already.....maybe next year.
 
well, I don't know how you all run your ranches, but around here the manicures take priority ! :wink: :wink:
 
Jigs, I made a phone call and didn't get the results I was looking for.
He said a lot of cavlery harness was sold after they disbanded.
He did refer me to ebay and I did find this. You might want to look
the bits over to see if there is any engraving on them.
Don't know if I did you any good or not:

What exactly is U.S. Horse Cavalry Equipment? Perhaps we should broaden the catagory to include U.S. Horse Artillery Equipment. Daily we see items described as Cavalry or Calvary or Calvery offered for sale that are not nor never have been Cavalry Equipment.

I have been collecting and trading Cavalry horse equipment and Cavalry weapons, with emphasis on the American Civil War for 30+ years. Weapons are a seperate subject and there is no lack of knowledgeable people to assist in the classification and authentication of these items.

First let us clear up a bit misspelling, I realize regional pronunciation causes this problem. It is CAVALRY after the Latin caval (pertaining to the horse), Calvary is a place of terrific importance to Christians and calvery isn't a word. Now that I have that off my chest, lets talk about Cavalry or Artillery equipment for the horse.

The saddle, most U.S. Cavalry after 1859 used the Model 1859, commonly called the McClellan after it's supposed designer George, of Civil War fame. There have been scores of saddles tested and/or adopted before and after the introduction of the McClellan, too many to go into here. If you wish to go into detail see Randy Steffen's work on the subject.

Just because a saddle is identified as a McClellan does not make it a Civil War saddle. There are many variations of the McClellan, Models of 1863, 1872 1885, 1904, 1913 & 1928, to name but a few. The ones that have survived in the greatest number are the Cavalry and Artillery version of the Model 1904. Thousand were built for WWI. After the Cavalry and Artillery were mechanized in the 1940s, thousands of these saddles were destroyed for the small amount of scrap brass so vital for the WWII effort. Those not scrapped were sold as surplus, Sear & Roebuck even sold them in their Farm Catalog. Civil War saddles were also in great supply after 1865, the Army used them until they were worn out, therefore, few original example still exist. Since the Army was using up the Model 1859s from inventory few of the models prior to the M1904 were produced.

How to identify a authentic Civil War McClellan? And let me assure you, there are many mistakes and fakes involved here. Many a 1904 was stripped of its outer leather, exposing the rawhide cover beneath and re-fitted for use by re-enactors not wishing to spend hundreds for a reproduction. These get into the collectable market through no fault of the original owner. But, what shall we look for? 1) the cream or yellow color of the exposed rawhide seat. 2) all other leather is dyed black. 3) all "furniture" is iron, we are talking about rings, staples, footman loops and stirrup hangers Expect them to be rusty, originally they were "japaned" black. All these parts on the M1904 are brass. Do not be confuse, there is brass on all McClellans, the coat strap plates and shield with the size are always this material.

Artillery vs Cavalry in the M1904, this is the easiest, The Artillery 1904 has a "D" ring riveted front and back to attach the rest of the harness required to pull the gun . These "D" rings are absent on the Cavalry model.

Bridle bits, another often abused catagory of horse equipment. Here again, scores of different designs were used between 1776 and 1943. Let us begin with the Civil War, Three bits were used, M1859 for Cavalry and for Artillery the M1859 and M1863. Most of the issues here involve confusion between the services, which can be excused, experienced collectors will have no problems. The most common confusion occurs with the Artillery bits. There are very few orginal Civil War Artillery bits available. Why you ask, in 1868 a new Artillery bit was approved, a modification of the M1863. The original brass covering were removed and US bosses were attached to the sides (similar to the bosses on the Cavalry bit of 1859).

The bit stamped US and the numeral 1,2,3,or 4 near the mouth piece is not a Civil War bit, but rather one of the 1896, 1906 or 1909 models ( the latter being most common).

Just because it is leather with a US brass on it doesn't make it Cavalry. Most of these offerings are pieces of the M1912 Escort Wagon harness. Most often seen are the bridles with blinders, good stuff , but not Cavalry.

As far as the Civil War goes, I'm speaking of US Regular Cavalry, 1st thru 6th . Volunteer outfits had many variations and exceptions to all regulation. Confederate equipment was, what ever could be had. The biggest supplier of Confederate horse equipment was the Union Quartermaster, by way of battlefield recovery.

There are many, many minute details that I haven't covered, please do not take me to task on them. Hopefully, as a lister or bidder of these things I have been a help.



This guide can be found in the following categories:

Collectibles > Militaria > Civil War (1861-65) > Reenactment, Repro > Clothing & Uniforms
Collectibles > Militaria > WW I (1914-18) > United States

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Where in Kansas did you find them. If I remember right there were several old post. Then along the Missouri and Kansas border there was an old mule barn that was the cavalry.
 
north central Kansas.

there was an old Pawnee indian site a few miles from here, but I have never heard of an Army post.
 

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