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What happened at the horse race?

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CattleArmy

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Big Brown trainer pins blame on jockey
By RACHEL COHEN, AP Sports Writer
3 hours, 57 minutes ago

Buzz Up PrintNEW YORK (AP)—Trainer Rick Dutrow Jr. still blames Kent Desormeaux for Big Brown's stunning last-place finish in the Belmont Stakes, but he wouldn't object to the jockey riding the horse in his next race.

The decision of whether to change jockeys is up to co-owner Michael Iavarone, Dutrow said.

"I don't want to hurt anyone, especially Kent," Dutrow told The Associated Press on Tuesday morning in his barn at Aqueduct. "But I still don't understand what happened. I don't see the horse with a problem, so I have to direct my attention toward the ride. That's all I can come up with."

With Big Brown trying to become the first Triple Crown champion in 30 years after dominant wins in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness, Desormeaux eased up the unbeaten colt with a quarter-mile remaining in the Belmont on Saturday.

"I had no horse. He was empty," Desormeaux said after the race.

Dutrow insisted Tuesday he had found nothing wrong with Big Brown.

"Maybe next week if something starts going wrong with the horse, then I'll understand everything," he said.

Dutrow added: "As long as the horse stays the way that I see him right now, then things are just going to keep building up for me to know that it was the ride that did him in."

He said he hadn't spoken to Desormeaux, but "if he calls me I'll talk to him, sure."

If Big Brown is healthy, the plan is for him to run next in the Travers Stakes on Aug. 23 at Saratoga.

Dutrow had no regrets about his bombastic proclamation that Big Brown clinching the Triple Crown was a "foregone conclusion."

"It's not like I'm going to go and cry in the corner," he said as he prepared for several of his horses to run Wednesday at Aqueduct. "I've got plenty to do here."
 
Maybe the jockey had money on another horse in that race....lol...I would of bet big on big brown to win,glad I do not live in vegas..... :D
 
We were at a branding that day and for a buck you got to draw out the horses names and that was your horse. The woman who got Big Brown was thrilled. That was before the race.
 
Simple. SOMEBODY was breeding or collecting from BB between the Preakness and the Belmont. Seen it time and time again. Stud hoss mentality tells him he should be at the back, herding and guiding the mares.

The BS about the hoof crack, or the condition of the track, or the jock is just that, BS. Somebody, or several sombodies, were gonna cut a fat hog and get some mares in foal to him, ASAP. Had he won the Triple Crown, can you imagine the stud fee he would command???
 
loomixguy said:
Simple. SOMEBODY was breeding or collecting from BB between the Preakness and the Belmont. Seen it time and time again. Stud hoss mentality tells him he should be at the back, herding and guiding the mares.

The BS about the hoof crack, or the condition of the track, or the jock is just that, BS. Somebody, or several sombodies, were gonna cut a fat hog and get some mares in foal to him, ASAP. Had he won the Triple Crown, can you imagine the stud fee he would command???
Click to expand...

:???: Why would the owner allow that- knowing that if the horse wins the TC he's worth so much more.... :???:

If your saying someone else snuck in and did it- then explain to me how he would get an AI or breeders certificate :???:
These horses anymore all have to be DNAed to be registered or run...

Big Brown just looked like it wasn't his day...He was running hard against the bit about the first half of the race- and then just seemed to lose gas...
I'd believe the heat and humidity, before anything else......
 
Oldtimer said:
:???: Why would the owner allow that- knowing that if the horse wins the TC he's worth so much more.... :???:

If your saying someone else snuck in and did it- then explain to me how he would get an AI or breeders certificate :???:
These horses anymore all have to be DNAed to be registered or run...

Big Brown just looked like it wasn't his day...He was running hard against the bit about the first half of the race- and then just seemed to lose gas...
I'd believe the heat and humidity, before anything else......
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I never said the owner ALLOWED it, you nitwit! Or that he wanted it to happen.

Why should I explain to you about how an unsavory character would go about acquiring a breeder's certificate? DNA?? It's all just paper! What kind of force to be reckoned with are you? A man in cahoots with the FBI, CIA, NSA, and other super secret law enforcement agencies should have investigative powers beyond compare!

But then I don't suppose that Barney Fife, Fearless Fosdick, Campus Police, or any of the Keystone Kops knew anything about the dark underbelly of the horse world, either. ANYTHING is possible with time, money, heavy equipment, and computer knowledge. Less that 24 hours in Manila can get you documents that will fool anybody or any government agency. The taxpayers in your county really got their money's worth with you, didn't they?

FWIW, the rest of the horses had to compete in the same heat, humidity, and track conditions. Big Brown wasn't fighting the bit as much as he was fighting his head.
 
Rumor has it the Democrats are going to investigate the race the same way they did major league baseball. They think things like that, and naming post offices to be of major importance.
Oldtiimer has no time to investigate such matters he has to spend all his time checking out websites for negitive things to post.
 
Well- I wish you two "experts" would explain it to me- as I'm always looking to learn....How do you get a breeders certificate without the owners knowledge or signature :???: - and how do you pass a DNA when parents and registerable animal all have to be DNAed... :???:
 
Good grief but you are dense. Shall I draw you a picture, Mr. Keystone Kop? Ever hear of forgeries? Fake documents? Beginning to get the picture, Clodumbo? BB's trainer already has, shall we say, a colorful past...?? Shady people have a price. Enough kwarta, and you can get what you want. And for some reason the racetrack draws more than it's fair share of shady characters. Vets, grooms, lab techs.....and the list goes on.

For the price of a carton of Benson's and a warm case of San Miguel you can have people disappear permanently in the Philippines. Cops, lawyers, judges, and National Bureau of Investigation Officers there ALL have their price.

If you ae that naieve, maybe you should return your county the salary you drew, cause they sure didn't get much for their money.
 
loomixguy said:
Good grief but you are dense. Shall I draw you a picture, Mr. Keystone Kop? Ever hear of forgeries? Fake documents? Beginning to get the picture, Clodumbo? BB's trainer already has, shall we say, a colorful past...?? Shady people have a price. Enough kwarta, and you can get what you want. And for some reason the racetrack draws more than it's fair share of shady characters. Vets, grooms, lab techs.....and the list goes on.

For the price of a carton of Benson's and a warm case of San Miguel you can have people disappear permanently in the Philippines. Cops, lawyers, judges, and National Bureau of Investigation Officers there ALL have their price.

If you ae that naieve, maybe you should return your county the salary you drew, cause they sure didn't get much for their money.
Click to expand...

:???:

So How do you sell , race, or market this animal for all this profit when all the breeders records of the owner and the Thoroughbred Assn- have no record of breeding :???: .....You don't think the owner and farm manager know and have to approve of every mare a horse like that breeds- and if some registration comes along with his name on it would know immediately it was a fake...How do you change the DNA and bloodtyping?...
Without all that you can't even run on the back barn tracks..
Are you suggesting they're gonna knock off the owner and the farm manager :???: -- probably have to get the trainer too :roll: :wink: :lol: ...

Your blowing your Texas wind the wrong direction again.... :roll:
 
Senility rears it's ugly head again. You FAKE everything, who the sire is, who the dam is, the lab work, etc. Not too hard to do. Spread some kwarta around, be a force to be reckoned with! Don't you imagine that the Jockey Club receives stallion reports that are less than truthful? Who cares WHAT the Breeder's cert says, if the get is actually Big Brown's and the BC says the sire is Tony the Pony? I know for a fact that Secretariat sired some Appys "off the record". These horses all have value, and if you are stealing it, do you need to get full price? What would a grade barrel horse be worth, sired by Big Brown "off the record"?

Have you ever been to a horse sale at a sale barn and seen the killer buyers carrying briefcases FULL of registration paers, etc., and trying to match the papers to a horse in the sale? You seem to think that all politicians are crooked, so why can't some people at the racetrack be crooked, too? Do you think all the NASCAR boys play by the rules? Have you ever heard the saying "If you ain't cheatin', then you ain't tryin'?"

I swear, you get dumber and dumber every day. Give the money back.
 
That's hardly my motto, but I'm not so old as to believe it can't and doesn't happen in many aspects of the world. I know a guy (and so does at least one other member here) who would probably love to sell you a horse or two, since you are so trusting.

You don't buy the story, you buy the merchandise.

I'll say it again...I think by Big Brown's actions last Saturday that he was being bred. Almost certainly without his owner's knowledge or consent, by party or parties unknown...PERIOD.

And I could care less what the thoughts of an inept, senile former Rent A Cop are. Do your county a favor and return your salary!
 
You know I think Oldtimer might just be right on this one!!!!! Loomix your kind of carrying on like your cut proud yourself.
Click to expand...

I'm not gonna deny that alot of the "backstretch" stuff don't happen, but I'd have to believe that the security around Big B would have prevented the "unauthiorized" collection. Sure Secretariat covered some Appaloosa mares, but if I remember right, they were test mares & they got papers showing the breeding.
I think that alot of Big B's problem was the way he was (or wasn't) worked between the Preakness & Blemont. He laid-off 2 weeks after the discovered the qtr crack and only breezed 5 furlongs before the Belmont. Smarty Jones was worked the same way & that was the smack on him & his trainer-not enough hard works. Secretariat was work 3 times, with two of them at a mile plus. He was "fit" for the Belmont.
From what I read, Big B was full of P & Vinegar to the point of dang near dumpin his excercise girl a couple of times as well as being a real pain around the barn. He was fresh-not tough...................
 
Plus if your gonna fake papper work to sell a horse,why would you not just fake the horse too...If your underhanded like loomix says why not just fake it all.....
 
Never said anything was faked, just that could or can happen, and a lot easier than some folks think. I guess travelling to the Philippines over the last 20 years has jaded me a lot, when it comes to being very trusting about things that really matter. :evil:

Corruption and bribery on all levels is the norm there, and if you are white, you have a big bullseye on your back. You pay to leave the airport, enter the airport, the taxi drivers will scam you, at the very least, if not drive you into an alley where their pals are waiting to rob you, at best, and the world's best forged documents can be purchased for less than $100 USD. God forbid if you are driving and have an accident. I even have had to pay the bribe to get on the plane to leave the country and come home once. If it weren't for the Boss' family there, there would be no reason to ever go back. :mad:
 
I think someone should tell Loomix guy not to drink the stuff. I never liked Loomix to begin with. Now I am scared to be around the fumes of it. Looks what it did to Loomix guy!!!!!!
 

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