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RobertMac
Well-known member
TimH said:OK...... Before we go 'round in circles anymore, would any of you (Sandhusker,Econ 101, RobertMac, OCM,Oldtimer, etc.) have any problems("huge implications") with importing Japanese beef if the USA required that it was BSE tested??
Specifically answering your question, no, I wouldn't...but I would also want country of origin labeling. The "huge implications" would come about as consumer perception...if a future TSE type outbreak is linked to BSE in cattle(whether legitimate or not), the industry would be crushed. Can we afford to blindly take chances?
nightcalver
Member
Just had to weigh in on this. First of all NCBA did not spend millions on the database company. The only money they spent on this whole thing was to put together meetings. The reason that NCBA won't make money on the ID database is because as soon as it gets going (and that will be early in 2006) the whole thing will be turned over to a consortium made up of industry personal (bison, dairy, horse?, swine, sheep, cervidae,cattle and etc.) who will run it. It's scary how rumors seem to be taken as fact anymore.
As far as Japan's beef: Has anyone read the rule?
As far as Japan's beef: Has anyone read the rule?
Sandhusker
Well-known member
TimH said:OK...... Before we go 'round in circles anymore, would any of you (Sandhusker,Econ 101, RobertMac, OCM,Oldtimer, etc.) have any problems("huge implications") with importing Japanese beef if the USA required that it was BSE tested??
I'm with Robert Mac, test it and label it. While Japanese beef is likely to be labeled anyway as Kobe, you still have to be wary of setting precident.
TimH said:OK...... Before we go 'round in circles anymore, would any of you (Sandhusker,Econ 101, RobertMac, OCM,Oldtimer, etc.) have any problems("huge implications") with importing Japanese beef if the USA required that it was BSE tested??
Test AND label.
TIM H: It matters not whether the US has any such requirement. The fact is, that every animal slaughtered in Japan is still being tested for BSE and ,therefore,any Japanese beef headed for the US market is BSE tested.
So what are the "huge implications" with the US importing BSE tested beef from Japan???
Tim, were you in favor or against Creekstone testing all of their product?
They wanted to test to open up Japanese market, yet NCBA was against it. Why were they against it if they think it is NOW okay to bring in tested Japanese beef? :roll:
So what are the "huge implications" with the US importing BSE tested beef from Japan???
Tim, were you in favor or against Creekstone testing all of their product?
They wanted to test to open up Japanese market, yet NCBA was against it. Why were they against it if they think it is NOW okay to bring in tested Japanese beef? :roll:
TimH
Well-known member
the chief said:TIM H: It matters not whether the US has any such requirement. The fact is, that every animal slaughtered in Japan is still being tested for BSE and ,therefore,any Japanese beef headed for the US market is BSE tested.
So what are the "huge implications" with the US importing BSE tested beef from Japan???
Tim, were you in favor or against Creekstone testing all of their product?
They wanted to test to open up Japanese market, yet NCBA was against it. Why were they against it if they think it is NOW okay to bring in tested Japanese beef? :roll:
Chief, I understood both sides of the arguement(the underlying principles) in the Creekstone deal... a company's right to satisfy the customer versus a gov't agency's mandate concerning food safety. I can say that I most definitely sat on the fence as far as the principles went.
On the practical side of it, I never did see any evidence that the Japanese gov't would approve importing tested US beef.Some private importers indicated that they would buy it but not the Japanese government (which says what is allowed).
As it turns out,Japan ended up accepting untested beef from the USA.
My whole point is quite simple......
BSE TESTING DOES NOT INSURE FOOD SAFETY.....SRM REMOVAL DOES!!
If you will notice in the USDA import rule re; importing Japanese beef(which Mike posted in another thread) SRM removal is one of the requirements.
Mike
Well-known member
As it turns out,Japan ended up accepting untested beef from the USA.
Yes they did. After the U.S. lost between $4-7 Billion dollars in exports. Which, I might add, will NEVER be gained back. NCBA reported $157 PER HEAD for 2004 was lost by the producer alone.
My position was to call their bluff. Agree to the testing and SEE if they would take it. If they had accepted it (which I believe they would have) that much money would have tested a lot of cattle. :???:
Not to mention the amount spent on lobbying the Japs the past two years.
It's a no-brainer.
TimH
Well-known member
Mike said:As it turns out,Japan ended up accepting untested beef from the USA.
Yes they did. After the U.S. lost between $4-7 Billion dollars in exports. Which, I might add, will NEVER be gained back. NCBA reported $157 PER HEAD for 2004 was lost by the producer alone.
My position was to call their bluff. Agree to the testing and SEE if they would take it. If they had accepted it (which I believe they would have) that much money would have tested a lot of cattle. :???:
Not to mention the amount spent on lobbying the Japs the past two years.
It's a no-brainer.
I hear ya, Mike, but in the end USDA (it could be argued), DID call their bluff. The result...Japan is accepting untested US beef with SRMs removed.
Repeat after me, you tur.......riffic guy......SRM removal insures food safety, not BSE testing!!!!! :wink:
Mike
Well-known member
BSE TESTING DOES NOT INSURE FOOD SAFETY.....SRM REMOVAL DOES!!
If a test can identify an animal with BSE how could it NOT lessen the chance of serving a platter of prions to your family. :???:
Besides, if prions cannot be transmitted by oral means (as some say), why would SRM removal even be necessary?
Would you serve your family meat that was known to be positive for BSE by means of a test, even if the SRM's were removed?
No one can "INSURE" food safety, certain practices can only lessen the chance of contamination.
Mike
Well-known member
TimH said:Mike said:As it turns out,Japan ended up accepting untested beef from the USA.
Yes they did. After the U.S. lost between $4-7 Billion dollars in exports. Which, I might add, will NEVER be gained back. NCBA reported $157 PER HEAD for 2004 was lost by the producer alone.
My position was to call their bluff. Agree to the testing and SEE if they would take it. If they had accepted it (which I believe they would have) that much money would have tested a lot of cattle. :???:
Not to mention the amount spent on lobbying the Japs the past two years.
It's a no-brainer.
I hear ya, Mike, but in the end USDA (it could be argued), DID call their bluff. The result...Japan is accepting untested US beef with SRMs removed.
Repeat after me, you tur.......riffic guy......SRM removal insures food safety, not BSE testing!!!!! :wink:
At the cost of the producer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TimH
Well-known member
Mike said:TimH said:Mike said:Yes they did. After the U.S. lost between $4-7 Billion dollars in exports. Which, I might add, will NEVER be gained back. NCBA reported $157 PER HEAD for 2004 was lost by the producer alone.
My position was to call their bluff. Agree to the testing and SEE if they would take it. If they had accepted it (which I believe they would have) that much money would have tested a lot of cattle. :???:
Not to mention the amount spent on lobbying the Japs the past two years.
It's a no-brainer.
I hear ya, Mike, but in the end USDA (it could be argued), DID call their bluff. The result...Japan is accepting untested US beef with SRMs removed.
Repeat after me, you tur.......riffic guy......SRM removal insures food safety, not BSE testing!!!!! :wink:
At the cost of the producer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not sure how NCBA arrived at that $157/head figure. Doesn't really matter. Some folks are continually saying that any extra dollars derived from beef exports(or anything else for that matter) are hoarded by the packers and not passed to producers(with the somehow odd exception of COOL).Others would point out that live cattle prices were at or near record levels in the US through 2004. Doesn't matter either.
It boils down to science vs money. Science says that SRM removal and not testing, insures food safety.
Principles versus economics.
Mike
Well-known member
Principles versus economics.
That's the whole point of this thread. Somebody threw out the principles (importing from Japan) and made bad economic decisions at the same time.
TimH
Well-known member
Mike said:Principles versus economics.
That's the whole point of this thread. Somebody threw out the principles (importing from Japan) and made bad economic decisions at the same time.
Well now Mikey, that would depend on whether or not you agree with the science which says that SRM removal,not testing, insures food safety.
USA beef bound for Japan has the SRMs removed. Japanese beef bound for the USA has the SRMs removed.
The bad economic decision,in my opinion, would be to agree to uneccessary testing which would not insure food safety. How long would these tests remain "inexpensive" if the demand for them rose due to their use being mandated by governments?? Don't forget they(the test kits) are patented(think DuPont ,Mike). Would we end up removing SRMs and testing??? Probably.
And one more thing.....just who do you think you are talking to about "per head producer losses due to BSE"???? Losses which ,I might add, I will NEVER get back either!
Sandhusker
Well-known member
There's some that say SRM removal does NOT guarantee BSE free. Think about it - how did those prions get to the SRMs?
mwj
Well-known member
Sandhusker said:There's some that say SRM removal does NOT guarantee BSE free. Think about it - how did those prions get to the SRMs?
Maybe you could just run a big add in the papers and tell the world that your beef is not safe to eat anyway you do it :roll: Has the thinking of some come to the point that they will sacrafice the industry to try and prove there point? Tell me what the best practice should be at this time and I am willing to listen. Tell me nothing will work and I will sugest that you get out of the buisness an
d leave it to the people that are not making beef look like a poor choice for a protien source!
PORKER
Well-known member
One Point everyone is missing is that the beef from Japanese slaughter plants is STILL BSE TESTED AND the SRM removed.The US or CANADAIAN beef has only the SRM removed going to JAPAN and thats the reason the JAPANESE is not responding to sales of imported beef from North America.*****SRM removal does NOT guarantee BSE free BEEF!!
mwj said:Sandhusker said:There's some that say SRM removal does NOT guarantee BSE free. Think about it - how did those prions get to the SRMs?
Maybe you could just run a big add in the papers and tell the world that your beef is not safe to eat anyway you do it :roll: Has the thinking of some come to the point that they will sacrafice the industry to try and prove there point? Tell me what the best practice should be at this time and I am willing to listen. Tell me nothing will work and I will sugest that you get out of the buisness an
d leave it to the people that are not making beef look like a poor choice for a protien source!
MWJ, the point is to make sure it is the safest product, not to hide your head in the sand about it. No one wants beef to be unsafe, but it seems the policies of the USDA are doing just that. Scare tactics that you bring up in this post only hides the problem instead of dealing with it. The integrity of the product needs to be discussed and good decisions based in policy need to be enforced. They are not.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
mwj said:Sandhusker said:There's some that say SRM removal does NOT guarantee BSE free. Think about it - how did those prions get to the SRMs?
Maybe you could just run a big add in the papers and tell the world that your beef is not safe to eat anyway you do it :roll: Has the thinking of some come to the point that they will sacrafice the industry to try and prove there point? Tell me what the best practice should be at this time and I am willing to listen. Tell me nothing will work and I will sugest that you get out of the buisness an
d leave it to the people that are not making beef look like a poor choice for a protien source!
Maybe you should just ignore the problem and hope everything just works out? :roll: It seems to me it has come to the point that the USDA will sacrifice the industry to keep trading. It is obvious trade trumps everything for that bunch.
I say when in doubt, test.
Sandhusker said:mwj said:Sandhusker said:There's some that say SRM removal does NOT guarantee BSE free. Think about it - how did those prions get to the SRMs?
Maybe you could just run a big add in the papers and tell the world that your beef is not safe to eat anyway you do it :roll: Has the thinking of some come to the point that they will sacrafice the industry to try and prove there point? Tell me what the best practice should be at this time and I am willing to listen. Tell me nothing will work and I will sugest that you get out of the buisness an
d leave it to the people that are not making beef look like a poor choice for a protien source!
Maybe you should just ignore the problem and hope everything just works out? :roll: It seems to me it has come to the point that the USDA will sacrifice the industry to keep trading. It is obvious trade trumps everything for that bunch.
I say when in doubt, test.
I think England tried that. Those who ignore history (even someone else's) are doomed to repeat it.