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What makes a heifer bull?

T

Tap

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I ask this tongue in cheek, but we used what we hoped to be calving ease heifer bulls, and so far they have done that job. BUT, they also have given us 19 heifer calves out of 22 births. We are just getting a good start, so I am sure that percentage will change, but it makes me wonder if heifer bulls means they throw lots of heifer calves. :-)
 
Hey Now;new to the board so please don't find me intrusive for replying even though I have no posts before this.My heifer bull is also a" heifer" bull 83% females.Some would say that's good and some not so good.But if you watch your bull breed you can get an idea of his timing and I have noticed mine gets on them while they are just beginning standing heat and perhaps this is why he produces more females.As the studies go male sex sperm swims faster but female sex lives longer.And to sex semen they use special lights and the semen at the top is usually male as female semen is heavier and is at the bottom of the Petri dish;thus maybe taking longer to swim.Just a thought may be wrong though not like it hasn't happened before.
 
HeyNow said:
Hey Now;new to the board so please don't find me intrusive for replying even though I have no posts before this.My heifer bull is also a" heifer" bull 83% females.Some would say that's good and some not so good.But if you watch your bull breed you can get an idea of his timing and I have noticed mine gets on them while they are just beginning standing heat and perhaps this is why he produces more females.As the studies go male sex sperm swims faster but female sex lives longer.And to sex semen they use special lights and the semen at the top is usually male as female semen is heavier and is at the bottom of the Petri dish;thus maybe taking longer to swim.Just a thought may be wrong though not like it hasn't happened before.
Click to expand...

Anything is possible.

I noticed by our handle you say your from "Where the air is clean and the BS is limited" What the heck did you want to come here for. :wink:
Never heard of somebody craving BS. :shock:
 
I think it has to do with the conditions during pre-conception. On bison during wet years it seems like they throw more heifers, but this is entirely anecdotal and just kinda makes sense.

Then, I think it also has to do with the time of conception during heat as discussed above.

What makes a Soapweed bull? Waking up!
 
Here are a couple of our heifer bulls.
100_0145.JPG


100_01431.JPG
 
Tap said:
I ask this tongue in cheek, but we used what we hoped to be calving ease heifer bulls, and so far they have done that job. BUT, they also have given us 19 heifer calves out of 22 births. We are just getting a good start, so I am sure that percentage will change, but it makes me wonder if heifer bulls means they throw lots of heifer calves. :-)
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Tap-

This is a question which has been pondered over and over again since Day 1!. To answer it quickly -NO!! To expound slightly on the premise - it has even been seriously considered that because the sex of an animal (humans included) is determined by the MALE - ( it is), one male gonad ( testicle ) produces females, (it DOESN'T) and the other gonad (testicle) produces males (it DOESN'T!) One ejaculation of a male (most any animal, human included) will produce many MILLIONS (some even say BILLIONS) of Spermatazoa, and after exhaustive research (and counting) it has been determined that the ratio of Male-producing sperm and Female-producing sperm is about 50% - 50% - the law of averages varying the ratio slightly over a great number of countings, but for all practical purposes, it is about 50% - 50%! The fortuity of whether your child, or your calves, will be female or male is determined by which one of those wiggly little tails manages to penetrate the cortex of the female egg - one with an XX chromosome, or one with XY chromosome - XX resulting in Female, - XY resulting in Male. Whichever one of the multiple MILLIONS of sperm wins the race -
determines the sex of the resulting progeny. If two Sperm penetrate the wall of the egg at EXACTLY the SAME MICRO-INSTANT - TWINS are the result! IDENTICAL TWINS! If one sperm penetrates the wall and THEN splits - FRATERNAL TWINS are the result.

First come - First served! God makes NO mistakes!

Take a coin (one with heads and tails) - flip it 100 times, and count how many times it comes up heads, and how many times it comes up tails. It will be about 50 -50. If your cows could have several thousand calves each, they would produce about 50% males, and 50% females. About.

DOC HARRIS
 
I must be tired, took me a couple seconds to figure out what Soapweed was talking about. LOL

I think the heifer calves have a few days shorter gestation period, it usually evens out.
 
Doc would it be safe to say in some bulls that maybe one or the other just swims faster most of the time??? And that would explain why you can get a bull that throws mostly heifer calves??
 
Heel Fly said:
Doc would it be safe to say in some bulls that maybe one or the other just swims faster most of the time??? And that would explain why you can get a bull that throws mostly heifer calves??
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Heel Fly - Factors which might determine the motility of sperm are should be classified as ethereal - very difficult, or next to impossible to ascertain to any degree of accuracy. Genetics, nutrition of the bull, ambient temperature, and of course, the age of the bull in question. To cut to the chase, so to speak, I feel there can be no criteria to cite which could seriously alter the facts of the matter - that is - there are NO known circumstances or hoodoo which can be used to verify HOW or WHY any matings can be expected or justified as to gender determination.

It is still a 50-50 shot!

Don't believe the old wives' tales! - or the young wives' tails, either! :roll:

DOC HARRIS
 
DOC HARRIS said:
If two Sperm penetrate the wall of the egg at EXACTLY the SAME MICRO-INSTANT - TWINS are the result! IDENTICAL TWINS! If one sperm penetrates the wall and THEN splits - FRATERNAL TWINS are the result.


DOC HARRIS
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Maybe I'm getting sleepy Doc, but I think that's a bit backwards. I believe a fraternal twin is one of a pair of twins, not necessarily resembling each other, or of the same sex, that develop from two separately fertilized ova.
...'course, I've been mistaken before. :oops: [/b]
 
Your right Silver.

It is impossible for 2 sperm to penetrate the same egg.

Identical twins are the result of the egg seperating during an early multiplication of cells. Exact same dna sequence.

Fraternal twins are from 2 eggs being fertilized by 2 seperate sperm cells.

Back to the original question, a sure fire "heifer bull" one that calves easilly every or nearly every time is a result of generations of moderate birthweights and proper smooth structure.

I hate rough shoulders. I was reminded why this year.

I bought back 10 heifers I sold as calves bred to 2 bulls I sold the fellow and 1 he raised. His bull was marginal in my opinion as a heifer bull. I also bought 12 bred heifers from another breeder who had bought a "heifer bull" for them.

Long story short, I had 1 big calf from my own heifers, 107 pounds unassisted, he was built right. I assume he was from the marginal bull. I pulled at least 3 of the calves from the bought heifers at over 90 pounds...not built right, heavy shoulders. 3 pulls is 3 too many for me.

I have sold semen on a Krugerrand son I raised with no assisted births on over 300 heifers now. That would classify as a "heifer bull".
 
Silver said:
DOC HARRIS said:
If two Sperm penetrate the wall of the egg at EXACTLY the SAME MICRO-INSTANT - TWINS are the result! IDENTICAL TWINS! If one sperm penetrates the wall and THEN splits - FRATERNAL TWINS are the result.


DOC HARRIS
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm getting sleepy Doc, but I think that's a bit backwards. I believe a fraternal twin is one of a pair of twins, not necessarily resembling each other, or of the same sex, that develop from two separately fertilized ova.
...'course, I've been mistaken before. :oops: [/b]
Click to expand...
:oops: :oops: :roll: No, I think that the trouble is - YOU are AWAKE, and I am almost asleep !

Identical twins = TWO SPERM PENETRATING one ovum.

Fraternal twins = TWO SPERM PENETRATING TWO SEPARATE OVA.

My OB/GYN Prof. would skin me alive WITHOUT anesthesia!

DOC HARRIS
 
Doc you still have it wrong.

Identical twins have the same DNA so they are a result of a fertilzed egg splitting in two.

There is no way for 2 seperate sperm to generate the exact same dna sequence.
 
Jason said:
Doc you still have it wrong.

Identical twins have the same DNA so they are a result of a fertilzed egg splitting in two.

There is no way for 2 seperate sperm to generate the exact same dna sequence.
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Jason- I was afraid someone would nail my placenta to the wall! I realized that I was wrong after I sent the last post, and said to myself, '"Myself, you need to go to bed! You have been up too long for one day! :dunce: Maybe I can blame this on Ruthie . Yeah, that's it. It is HER fault! It can't be mine! :help: :lol2: :cry2:

Anyway, you are right. The only legitimate excuse that I can come up with is it has been 50 years since I was burning the midnight oil on that subject, and that is a lot of years!

Sorry! I hope I didn't screw up your brains too much!

DOC HARRIS
 
No problem DOC we all have those days.

I knew you should know the right answer, so I'll go along with Ruthie keeping you up too late too :wink:
 
Wow, I was ready to believe that good-ole Mr. Trotter taught us all about reproduction in high school biology, all wrong! I'm glad everyone finally came around to my way of thinkin'.......... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Doc, try not to stay up so late next time, k? :wink:
 

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