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What to do for fly control?

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cowboss

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I need help for fly control so i bought a lewis cattle oiler
 

PPRM

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cowboss,

where can a guy source one of these, is there a website??? I am specifically talking the oiler/mineral feeder combination


PPRM
 

cowboss

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you can go to lewiscattleoilers.com. I met a really good guy who sells them. If you want to talk to him he will help you out. This cattle oiler is big and strong. I got them to ship one to me. I really like it anyone I got in touch with says that it will reduce flies and misqutos in the summer and lice and mange in the winter. They ship them all over the world. I really think it is well worth it
 

PPRM

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What brand do you use in the oiler, do you rotate products??
 

PPRM

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After looking at this, they are portable enough to take from winter to summer place, but do need in every place cattle are, thaks for the info,

PPRM
 

Soapweed

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God put tails on cows and horses for a reason. As for salt bunks, it is hard to beat the plastic half barrels that originally come with Vitalix molasses in them. They are available for $5 each at our local supply store, and are by far better than the old tires turned inside out and mounted on a board platform that we used to use.

Speaking of salt bunks, I always like to put them on an already sandy spot near a water tank. If you put them out on good sod, soon there is a sandy spot due to wear and tear from the cattle. As far as using salt bunks to attract cattle to unused grass, I don't do it that way. It becomes like an Easter egg hunt trying to remember where you parked the salt bunk out in the hills, and a sandy spot develops. The cattle will find the grass, and they just as well get their salt and mineral when they come in to water.
 

Faster horses

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You are a wise man, Soapweed. Cattle won't walk to find mineral anyway~so it is much better to do just what you have found works so well. If they start overeating the mineral, then you can move the tubs further away from water~but never completely out of the area.
 

Rowdy Ranch

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Soapweed-I agree 100%-let the cattle take care of themselves for the most Part! Same goes here on the salt and mineral - it gets put in the same place year after year.The "experts" say to put the salt where you need cattle to graze more-well I would never remember where the feeder was or else could not get to it expect via helicopter. I agree with your operation methods nearly all the time. Have a good day- you and your family along with hired help!
 

cowboss

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I believe fly control is inportant. The tail works but not effective. I you had bugs on you, you would use bug spray. But why care about you cattles health
 

Jinglebob

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I heard a remark put down to an old cowman. "Why would you worry about heeol flies? Keeps the cows bunched up so the bulls can find the ones in heat!"

I have quite a little buckbrush in my southern pastures and this was always traditionally summer pastures. I was going to have it sprayed as it seemed like I would have more grass for cattle to eat. Never could get a sprayer to come and do it, tho'. One day I rode down to check on the cattle and they were all yearling steers. The heel flies were out and really aq pain. When I found the steers almost everyone was lying down in the buckbrush, rolled up on top of their feet. Their tails were busy, but they seemed pretty comfortable. Since then, the buckbrush don't bother me at all.

I've been told and noticed for myself that horned longhorn cattle, will graze into and a lot closer around brush then other cattle. I know that they browse more. Must be why I like them! :lol:

I think I posted this before, but if you move your cattle at least a half a mile to fresh or different pastures. every 4 to 6 days, you can get ahead of anf beat most of the fly problems.

I read a book sometime back, by a man who was of a tribe up in Montana. He grew up on the families ranch that was run by his grandmother. The tribe is one where the women traditionally have the power in the family and are considered the landowner. He told of his grandmother telling him that before they came and fenced all of the country, the great spirit put all the flies and bugs along the creeks to drive the animals up inot the higher hills to spend the summer months. Then in the fall when the flies and bugs died, the animals would drift back to protection and there would be lots of feed for them to winter on. Made sense to me and I found it interesting.
 

Faster horses

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"...where women traditionally have the power"

WOW! That must be some book!!

Seriously, why would you still have heel flies? With the pour-ons they are a thing of the past in Montana. Wonder why you would still be bothered by them in SD?
 

Big Muddy rancher

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Faster horses said:
"...where women traditionally have the power"

WOW! That must be some book!!

Seriously, why would you still have heel flies? With the pour-ons they are a thing of the past in Montana. Wonder why you would still be bothered by them in SD?


Great question Faster Horses. Same for horn flies with the ability to use IGR.
 

Jinglebob

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Probably because my yearlin' man was too cheap for anything other than salt grass and water. Cattle gained 2.25 to 2.5 lbs per day.

I always wanted to try mineral with the fly stuff in it. but since we started rotating, we don't get many anyway.

I don't feed much mineral. They get a little from their winter feed I guess.

We are a low input operation! :shock: :lol:

Used to not get our cows to eat any type of mineral. Now I just to think it pays much. When I can get afford to get a test to see what we are lacking, AND I am runnin just my own, I will go to a mineral program.

Funny, howed them old timers ever survive without all of the shots and minerals and stuff? :???: :shock: :lol:
 

PPRM

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Jinglebob said:
Funny, howed them old timers ever survive without all of the shots and minerals and stuff? :???: :shock: :lol:


JB, I have thought about this a lot. answer is it takes a lot more productive cattle to pay for many of the inputs. And I am talking about the inputs that are the same today as in yesteryear. Grass, land feed, fuel, ect...

Take mineral, really an inexpensive way to optimize gains from your feed, production from the cows and help with disease resistance. I feel a good mineral program lowers many off my other costs.


On the vaccines, our cattle co-mingle together a lot more than ever before with the trucking of cattle, ect. They are exposed more to these bugs. Helps to eliminate stressors to whatever extent feasible.

many different ways to make money at cattle, if you can keep input costs down, then your way works well. I also think there's a ton to be learned from guys taking your approach, but also some cheap inputs out there that can result in huge benefits
 

Big Muddy rancher

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Jinglebob, How cheap can he be if he doesn't control warbles? Don't you guys have warble control areas any more? Besides a pour on that cleans up lice and grubs doesn't cost it pays.
 

Faster horses

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My sentiments exactly. I wonder if your man realizes how much it costs him TO NOT use a pour-on in the fall. He can use any of the Ivomectrin products at 1/4 dose and get lice and grubs, I GUARANTEE IT!!

Remember, low-cost does not mean NO COST!!

The yearling guys here would not be without mineral. Takes away all that doctoring you mention. 'Course, I'll admit, you won't need to ride your horse nearly as much! When cattle need doctoring, they aren't gaining, in fact they are losing. Not much money in that. As far as the IGR goes, it costs less than ear tags to control the flies for the yearling season. Of course, you would need to feed it in mineral~

We have some salty old ranchers that run yearlings that never used to feed mineral. Now it is a REQUIREMENT that the people buy their mineral before they bring them to his pasture and the rancher (an older fella) taking them in, keeps the mineral out. Says it has sure taken the work out of running yearlings.

As far as "how did people get by without doing any of this?" I'll tell you how:
calves weighed 300 lbs. Yearlings weighed 600 lbs. Cows were little and we didn't ask them to produce what we ask of them now. Much of this is nothing more than meeting their nutrition requirements. Used to be, if a cow died, she died. Not so, anymore. We all want to keep them alive because of the costs involved. Same with breed up. When we first started on our own, heifers were bred at 2 years old, to calve at 3. Can you imagine doing that now? I don't know anyone that could afford to do it, or would want to do it. Why give up a productive year in a cows life? But when they didn't ask much out of the cow, it also didn't cost much to keep her until 3 years old. And of course, they were bigger at three. (Bigger and dumber~have you ever calved out three year olds that didn't calve at two? That is an experience in itself.)

Since we have been on a mineral program, we don't lose cows like we used to. I can't remember the last time a cow died on this place. And we dang sure don't doctor anything to speak of. Our calf crop last year, and so far this year, has not had a treatment for anything. That speaks volumes.

I bet your man doesn't drive the same pickup he drove in the 60's~so why would he treat his cattle the same?
 

Jinglebob

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FH;
I just knew I'd get a reply from you! :lol:

My man does what ever the hell he wants and I don't argue. The customer is always right. If he don't want to feed mineral, why should i fight him?
I get paid the same either way. If it was on a gain deal, then I might argue or demand mineral.

As far as the smaller cows and calves and yearlings years ago, it reminds me of a quote. "Did you ever notice all of the ranches that were paid for from 400 pound calves and they can't make them work now with 650 pound calves?"

Each person has to figure out what works for them. If we ever get to chat remind me of this "heavy weaning weights verses light weaning weights" issue. I've got some figures you might be interested in.
 

Faster horses

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OUCH!! And of course, the customer is always right. Sometimes when he is WRONG he is still right. Too bad no one tries to educate him a bit. I believe he is leaving money on the table. But it is his money!!

I have seen the stuff on lighter calves vs. heavier ones. I have studied Kit Pharo's deal and actually have a bull from him. He makes a super presentation. Bottom line, you gotta have what feeders want, and so far that's not a steer finished at 1000-1100 lbs. Might be someday, but not yet, I don't believe.

Yea, we started out with 400# Hereford calves, like lots of people. But to make it work for us we had to change with the times. Big cattle that raise 400# calves still won't work. (Not to say small cattle that raise 400# calves won't work, but there aren't many small cows to be had.) And from my posts on here, you should know that I worry cattle are getting TOO big~but we don't need to go back to belt buckle cattle either. IMO.

Kit promotes the "grass fed" deal as well. And that might work for some. We just don't have the place to keep the calves over and run them the next summer.

Every place is different. We are just tickled pink with what we have found that works for us.To each his own.

There is a different thought out there now, that instead of keeping those light cattle gaining one pound a day in a feedlot and turning them out 'green' on grass; that it doesn't cost much more to let them gain 3#/day while in the lot, sell them at some point and buy back some light calves. Turns your money over twice. But that is another story for another day.

I appreciate your posts here, and I appreciate what you have to contribute. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, really. It is just that I get tired of the rut I see people in. Sometimes, if we can, it benefits us to 'think outside the box.' But I will say it for you, "it is none of my ----business!!"

I hope you accept my apology, because that is what this is~

(but not pouring for grubs is assnine)~whoops! I just had to say it!!!
 

Denny

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Italked to Kit on the phone he asked me what my weaning expetations were of 1000 to 1200# cows I told him at least a 550# average he says thats way to high I should settle for 400# average.Some of what he says is good but some is WAY off base.He's selling an opinion His,I didnt really think much of him after our chat he's right I'm wrong.He came across so Arrogant that I was'nt interested anymore.
 

Soapweed

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I agree, Denny. Extremes either direction don't work. Moderation in all things is a good motto.

Back to the issue of fly control, believe me, I've tried it all. It would be impossible to count all the gunny sacks and baling wire I've tied onto chains between two posts (which is as good a "back-rubber" system as there is). No matter what is used for the fly control agent, after a year or two, immunity is built up. Ear tags worked real well for awhile, but they don't anymore. The only thing that ever really worked satisfactorily was DDT mixed with diesel, but of course that was taken off the market many years ago. Dust bags don't work. After awhile, a person gets tired seeing his efforts and finances being spit into the wind. Our cattle don't have any more flies than any others around the country. They are as contented as anybody's cattle. Plenty of grass, fresh water, and salt and good mineral more than makes up for a few flies. We always Warbex in the fall for lice and grub control. Our weaning weights have consistently gone up, and the size of our cows is still moderate (around 1200# average).

Some herd health costs give a good return on investment. Money spent on fly control, for our operation, is just money thrown out the window.

I still use Synovex C implants, because the extra 25 pounds per calf at selling time puts money in my pocket, and so far, I see not enough "premium" being paid for me not to do it. Our replacement heifer calves always get Synovex C (we've used it for about twenty-five years), and the conception rates are consistently about 95-96%. We have just a few more "opens" than we did without the implants, but the heifers develop enough bigger that we don't have to pull as many calves as before.

A few years ago, a local livestock supply dealer was trying to talk an old-time rancher into using Synovex C. The rancher was not interested. My friend said, "I'd like to have all the money you are losing by not implanting." The old rancher smiled and said, "I don't need the money."

To each their own, I reckon.
 

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