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What Will R-CALF's Implosion Bring?

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Tam said:
ocm
I have been referring to those things posted on that idiotic website. Consider something else you can read there. Much has been made of the Larsen report. According to the minutes, shortly after receiving the report, it was given to a committee of the board to address. That committee was chaired by Kiker. What did they do. For over a year you can read nothing in the minutes about them doing anything in response to the report. It is my understanding the committee never met. (not entirely sure of this fact--but makes sense). Didn't Kiker and the committee care about R-CALF. What it looks more like now in hindsight is that Kiker just put the report in his back pocket to be used at a later time to destroy Bullard, not as it was intended as a document to help the board make decisions for improvements.

The board under Kiker is responsible for its inaction on the Larsen report. Now they spin it to be a condemnation of Bullard.

Taken from the Minutes dated July 29 2006,
Move to have Chuck, Max, Jon and Bill review study by Don Larson and pull out recommendations they believe should be presented to the board and report back to the board. Motion made by Leo seconded by Dennis and passed.

First they didn't have the report for a year notice the date of the minutes ocm? And you are trying to tell us that the report was tucked away to be used to destroy Bill when Max and Bill were on the committee that was assigned to review it and bring the recommendations. :roll:

Ok, so my timing was off. Still applies. Chuck as chairman did nothing. And what is it being used for now? Who dropped the ball? If is was serious, it deserved immediate attention. If it didn't get immediate attention it must not have been considered serious, or it was held back to use at an opportune time.
 
All this bickering over minutes and who said what when, to me doesn't mean anything. The majority voted to remove Kiker as president. All organizations have their disagreements, but to resign just because of that is uncalled for if one believes in what the organization stands for.
I do not think Kiker should have been fired, repremanded yes, but the majority thought otherwise.
I have no idea why Tam and the other Canadians are so concerned about it.
 
ocm said:
Tam said:
ocm
I have been referring to those things posted on that idiotic website. Consider something else you can read there. Much has been made of the Larsen report. According to the minutes, shortly after receiving the report, it was given to a committee of the board to address. That committee was chaired by Kiker. What did they do. For over a year you can read nothing in the minutes about them doing anything in response to the report. It is my understanding the committee never met. (not entirely sure of this fact--but makes sense). Didn't Kiker and the committee care about R-CALF. What it looks more like now in hindsight is that Kiker just put the report in his back pocket to be used at a later time to destroy Bullard, not as it was intended as a document to help the board make decisions for improvements.

The board under Kiker is responsible for its inaction on the Larsen report. Now they spin it to be a condemnation of Bullard.

Taken from the Minutes dated July 29 2006,
Move to have Chuck, Max, Jon and Bill review study by Don Larson and pull out recommendations they believe should be presented to the board and report back to the board. Motion made by Leo seconded by Dennis and passed.

First they didn't have the report for a year notice the date of the minutes ocm? And you are trying to tell us that the report was tucked away to be used to destroy Bill when Max and Bill were on the committee that was assigned to review it and bring the recommendations. :roll:

Ok, so my timing was off. Still applies. Chuck as chairman did nothing. And what is it being used for now? Who dropped the ball? If is was serious, it deserved immediate attention. If it didn't get immediate attention it must not have been considered serious, or it was held back to use at an opportune time.
Oh come on Max and Bill were both on the committee did they not care about R-CALF enough to keep the report front and center. I'd say it was more like Bill didn't want to impliment any of the recommendations just like he didn't want to move to an accrual basis on the Finances so he and Max drug their feet to make Kiker look bad.
 
Tommy said:
All this bickering over minutes and who said what when, to me doesn't mean anything. The majority voted to remove Kiker as president. All organizations have their disagreements, but to resign just because of that is uncalled for if one believes in what the organization stands for.
I do not think Kiker should have been fired, repremanded yes, but the majority thought otherwise.
I have no idea why Tam and the other Canadians are so concerned about it.

Tommy I think most Canadian if not a few Americans find the R-CALF's implosion quite fitting to a group that has shown so little reguard to truth and fair play. Reading in the official R-CALF minutes that the President of R-CALF called Bulls**t Bullard a LIAR was pure entertainment :wink: MADE MY DAY. :lol: :lol:

That said the part that concerns me and I hope most now is the fact that those left in charge are the ones that are willing to go to any length to achieve their goal even illegally removing a President that doesn't go along with their agenda. From the minutes I read Kiker was at least trying to keep your debt under control, due to mounting legal fees that the rest of these misfits are willing to rack up on lawsuits after lawsuit that even R-CALF lawyers say have little chance of winning.

When I read the Sept 28 2006 minutes I knew we are in for a long road of litigation if the rest of the members don't step up and put a stop to them.


Motion and discussion about the 2007 Washington fly in to speak face to face with the USDA and politicians on beef industry issues.

Johnny Smith expresses his position in opposition of a fly in as he feels visits to D.C. don't accomplish much.
Candace Bullard reports 2006 fly in cost $16,000 not including air fare.

Motion for 2007 Fly in passes
Johnny Smith and Max Thornsberry opposed

Then later in the same meeting

Johnny Smith notes that undertaking new and different litigation may help raise funds.

These are the people you have left Tommy. They would rather litigate to the tune on hundreds of thousands of dollars (Stewart and Stewarts outstanding bill according the Jane Wooster is $400,000 that does not include what they have already paid them, that is just the OUTSTANDING BILL ) than spent $25,000 to talk to the government face to face and maybe come to a conclusion that ranchers on both sides of the border can live with. How many calves can you and other donate to keep Johnny Smith happy Tommy? :???:

Your Majority rules may have taken the only sane one, in that whole group you have leading you into years of EXPENSIVE LITIGATION, OUT. Are you willing to stand behind Johnny and donate calves until you have nothing left to donate to support his new and different litigation efforts or are you going to back Kiker and say enough litigation let's sit down and talk it out. It is up to the like of you Tommy god help the North American Beef industry. :roll:
 
Tam if it was illegal then Kiker would be able to take the presidency back. You have read and heard one side of this, and that suits your purpose. R-CALF is having regional meetings to discuss this a getting it out in the open. I am sure people have read the stuff that is being posted on Swift Horses, I am sure they are as up to date on this as you are Tam.
 
Tommy said:
All organizations have their disagreements, but to resign just because of that is uncalled for if one believes in what the organization stands for.

I agree, I'm most angry at those that have resigned...they have turned their backs on the members that elected them and refuse to fight for their principles.
 
RobertMac said:
Tommy said:
All organizations have their disagreements, but to resign just because of that is uncalled for if one believes in what the organization stands for.

I agree, I'm most angry at those that have resigned...they have turned their backs on the members that elected them and refuse to fight for their principles.

Maybe they are trying to distance themselves from the liability when those unpaid lawyers turn on R-CALF.
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
RobertMac said:
Tommy said:
All organizations have their disagreements, but to resign just because of that is uncalled for if one believes in what the organization stands for.

I agree, I'm most angry at those that have resigned...they have turned their backs on the members that elected them and refuse to fight for their principles.

Maybe they are trying to distance themselves from the liability when those unpaid lawyers turn on R-CALF.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Or maybe not. :roll:
 
A brief funeral dirge for R-CALF (1998-2007)

After a series of market-shaking news events, a group of ranchers, a well placed market-owner, and his fringe Billings-based Ag-Newspaper gathered together to form a new cattle organization. The founding members were disenfranchised by mainstream cattle organizations, angry about the role of producers in the beef value-chain, and deeply distrustful of both free trade and packers. The group banded together as a vehicle for its financier to fund a number of injunctive court actions targeted at closing borders to trade, re-examining the usage of the beef checkoff, and assessing the transparency of the beef marketing chain. The recently deceased R-CALF took up the mantle of the champion of the small and independent cattle producer and for a time, they succeeded in forwarding their aims.

While R-CALF's strident opposition to free trade was short-sighted and self-serving, the organization did at least as much good as harm to the beef industry in its short life. The beef checkoff has long been used as an open checkbook transfering public money to NCBA, a private organization, through a series of contracting arrangements that would make Haliburton proud. The scrutiny that has been placed on the use of these generic promotion funds will undoubtably benefit the industry as a whole and clean up many past inproprieties. Further, the pressure that R-CALF placed on the mainstream organizations to consider broader perspectives and to open up their policy development to individuals beyond their traditional insular core will eventually make them more responsive to the needs of average members. The beef value chain has been shamefully obscure, so any action to provide more factual information is useful. The use of injunctions and hand-picking sympathetic judges to curcumvent science and the legislative process is shameful, but was an effective lesson to the industry that a good lawyer can make flawed logic go a long ways.

R-CALF had a sharply split personality, as shown by its contradictory policies on COOL and National Animal Id. While the group fought agressively to inact a traceback system identifying the country in which an animal was born, raised, and slaughtered for market purposes, RCALF strongly opposed a system designed to traceback animals to the specific ranch on which they were born, feedlot they were raised, and plant they were slaughtered for food safety purposes. The systems could (should) have been one-in-the-same, but instead were conversely fought and supported in the same agresive tone.

As with all splinter movements founded on rebel principles, the R-CALF inevitably splintered upon itself. So it was in the last two weeks as R-CALF colapsed under the wieght of its own split personalities. While the good they've done on check-off and grass-roots organizational policy making may have long-lived usefulness, the damage they've done to the credibility of a single voice for the industry is likely temporary. Now that we've buried our splinters, it is up to us to build something better from the remaining good wood.
 
bigdog said:
A brief funeral dirge for R-CALF (1998-2007)

After a series of market-shaking news events, a group of ranchers, a well placed market-owner, and his fringe Billings-based Ag-Newspaper gathered together to form a new cattle organization. The founding members were disenfranchised by mainstream cattle organizations, angry about the role of producers in the beef value-chain, and deeply distrustful of both free trade and packers. The group banded together as a vehicle for its financier to fund a number of injunctive court actions targeted at closing borders to trade, re-examining the usage of the beef checkoff, and assessing the transparency of the beef marketing chain. The recently deceased R-CALF took up the mantle of the champion of the small and independent cattle producer and for a time, they succeeded in forwarding their aims.

While R-CALF's strident opposition to free trade was short-sighted and self-serving, the organization did at least as much good as harm to the beef industry in its short life. The beef checkoff has long been used as an open checkbook transfering public money to NCBA, a private organization, through a series of contracting arrangements that would make Haliburton proud. The scrutiny that has been placed on the use of these generic promotion funds will undoubtably benefit the industry as a whole and clean up many past inproprieties. Further, the pressure that R-CALF placed on the mainstream organizations to consider broader perspectives and to open up their policy development to individuals beyond their traditional insular core will eventually make them more responsive to the needs of average members. The beef value chain has been shamefully obscure, so any action to provide more factual information is useful. The use of injunctions and hand-picking sympathetic judges to curcumvent science and the legislative process is shameful, but was an effective lesson to the industry that a good lawyer can make flawed logic go a long ways.

R-CALF had a sharply split personality, as shown by its contradictory policies on COOL and National Animal Id. While the group fought agressively to inact a traceback system identifying the country in which an animal was born, raised, and slaughtered for market purposes, RCALF strongly opposed a system designed to traceback animals to the specific ranch on which they were born, feedlot they were raised, and plant they were slaughtered for food safety purposes. The systems could (should) have been one-in-the-same, but instead were conversely fought and supported in the same agresive tone.

As with all splinter movements founded on rebel principles, the R-CALF inevitably splintered upon itself. So it was in the last two weeks as R-CALF colapsed under the wieght of its own split personalities. While the good they've done on check-off and grass-roots organizational policy making may have long-lived usefulness, the damage they've done to the credibility of a single voice for the industry is likely temporary. Now that we've buried our splinters, it is up to us to build something better from the remaining good wood.

bigdog, a eulogy on your very first post? Perhaps you should have sent it to MRJ to get it spell checked first.
 
Econ101 said:
bigdog said:
A brief funeral dirge for R-CALF (1998-2007)

After a series of market-shaking news events, a group of ranchers, a well placed market-owner, and his fringe Billings-based Ag-Newspaper gathered together to form a new cattle organization. The founding members were disenfranchised by mainstream cattle organizations, angry about the role of producers in the beef value-chain, and deeply distrustful of both free trade and packers. The group banded together as a vehicle for its financier to fund a number of injunctive court actions targeted at closing borders to trade, re-examining the usage of the beef checkoff, and assessing the transparency of the beef marketing chain. The recently deceased R-CALF took up the mantle of the champion of the small and independent cattle producer and for a time, they succeeded in forwarding their aims.

While R-CALF's strident opposition to free trade was short-sighted and self-serving, the organization did at least as much good as harm to the beef industry in its short life. The beef checkoff has long been used as an open checkbook transfering public money to NCBA, a private organization, through a series of contracting arrangements that would make Haliburton proud. The scrutiny that has been placed on the use of these generic promotion funds will undoubtably benefit the industry as a whole and clean up many past inproprieties. Further, the pressure that R-CALF placed on the mainstream organizations to consider broader perspectives and to open up their policy development to individuals beyond their traditional insular core will eventually make them more responsive to the needs of average members. The beef value chain has been shamefully obscure, so any action to provide more factual information is useful. The use of injunctions and hand-picking sympathetic judges to curcumvent science and the legislative process is shameful, but was an effective lesson to the industry that a good lawyer can make flawed logic go a long ways.

R-CALF had a sharply split personality, as shown by its contradictory policies on COOL and National Animal Id. While the group fought agressively to inact a traceback system identifying the country in which an animal was born, raised, and slaughtered for market purposes, RCALF strongly opposed a system designed to traceback animals to the specific ranch on which they were born, feedlot they were raised, and plant they were slaughtered for food safety purposes. The systems could (should) have been one-in-the-same, but instead were conversely fought and supported in the same agresive tone.

As with all splinter movements founded on rebel principles, the R-CALF inevitably splintered upon itself. So it was in the last two weeks as R-CALF colapsed under the wieght of its own split personalities. While the good they've done on check-off and grass-roots organizational policy making may have long-lived usefulness, the damage they've done to the credibility of a single voice for the industry is likely temporary. Now that we've buried our splinters, it is up to us to build something better from the remaining good wood.

bigdog, a eulogy on your very first post? Perhaps you should have sent it to MRJ to get it spell checked first.


Atta boy, lil buddy! If you can't intelligently refute someone's words, nail'em on the spelling! And if the spelling is O.K., get'em on the grammer! Or font size . . .

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Maple Leaf Angus said:
Econ101 said:
bigdog said:
A brief funeral dirge for R-CALF (1998-2007)

After a series of market-shaking news events, a group of ranchers, a well placed market-owner, and his fringe Billings-based Ag-Newspaper gathered together to form a new cattle organization. The founding members were disenfranchised by mainstream cattle organizations, angry about the role of producers in the beef value-chain, and deeply distrustful of both free trade and packers. The group banded together as a vehicle for its financier to fund a number of injunctive court actions targeted at closing borders to trade, re-examining the usage of the beef checkoff, and assessing the transparency of the beef marketing chain. The recently deceased R-CALF took up the mantle of the champion of the small and independent cattle producer and for a time, they succeeded in forwarding their aims.

While R-CALF's strident opposition to free trade was short-sighted and self-serving, the organization did at least as much good as harm to the beef industry in its short life. The beef checkoff has long been used as an open checkbook transfering public money to NCBA, a private organization, through a series of contracting arrangements that would make Haliburton proud. The scrutiny that has been placed on the use of these generic promotion funds will undoubtably benefit the industry as a whole and clean up many past inproprieties. Further, the pressure that R-CALF placed on the mainstream organizations to consider broader perspectives and to open up their policy development to individuals beyond their traditional insular core will eventually make them more responsive to the needs of average members. The beef value chain has been shamefully obscure, so any action to provide more factual information is useful. The use of injunctions and hand-picking sympathetic judges to curcumvent science and the legislative process is shameful, but was an effective lesson to the industry that a good lawyer can make flawed logic go a long ways.

R-CALF had a sharply split personality, as shown by its contradictory policies on COOL and National Animal Id. While the group fought agressively to inact a traceback system identifying the country in which an animal was born, raised, and slaughtered for market purposes, RCALF strongly opposed a system designed to traceback animals to the specific ranch on which they were born, feedlot they were raised, and plant they were slaughtered for food safety purposes. The systems could (should) have been one-in-the-same, but instead were conversely fought and supported in the same agresive tone.

As with all splinter movements founded on rebel principles, the R-CALF inevitably splintered upon itself. So it was in the last two weeks as R-CALF colapsed under the wieght of its own split personalities. While the good they've done on check-off and grass-roots organizational policy making may have long-lived usefulness, the damage they've done to the credibility of a single voice for the industry is likely temporary. Now that we've buried our splinters, it is up to us to build something better from the remaining good wood.

bigdog, a eulogy on your very first post? Perhaps you should have sent it to MRJ to get it spell checked first.


Atta boy, lil buddy! If you can't intelligently refute someone's words, nail'em on the spelling! And if the spelling is O.K., get'em on the grammer! Or font size . . .

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am not in rcalf and I know about as much as is posted on this forum. I am therefore not going to refute the substance of what was written, not because it may be incorrect, but because I am not part of that group and I just don't know the ins and outs.

I do think that funeral eulogies before a real death are usually motivated by self interest.
 
I have corrected my spelling errors. I apologize for my failure to spell-check it previously. As you note, after reading for several weeks, I am new to contributing to this website and I didn't understand the decorum. I assure you that in the future I shall avoid errors that apparently make the content of my contribution incomprehensible

I do not feel that the eulogy is premature. Like a racehorse with a broken leg, it may live on for a while, but it will never be the same. As we say farewell to this short-lived organization, I feel it is important to mention its positive points, rather than dwelling entirely on its many shortcomings. We cannot forget that R-CALF had (for the most part) good intentions.

Here is my spell-corrected contribution:
A brief funeral dirge for R-CALF (1998-2007)

After a series of market-shaking news events, a group of ranchers, a well placed market-owner, and his fringe Billings-based Ag-Newspaper gathered together to form a new cattle organization. The founding members were disenfranchised by mainstream cattle organizations, angry about the role of producers in the beef value-chain, and deeply distrustful of both free trade and packers. The group banded together as a vehicle for its financier to fund a number of injunctive court actions targeted at closing borders to trade, re-examining the usage of the beef checkoff, and assessing the transparency of the beef marketing chain. The recently deceased R-CALF took up the mantle of the champion of the small and independent cattle producer and for a time, they succeeded in forwarding their aims.

While R-CALF's strident opposition to free trade was short-sighted and self-serving, the organization did at least as much good as harm to the beef industry in its short life. The beef checkoff has long been used as an open checkbook transfering public money to NCBA, a private organization, through a series of contracting arrangements that would make Halliburton proud. The scrutiny that has been placed on the use of these generic promotion funds will undoubtedly benefit the industry as a whole and clean up many past improprieties. Further, the pressure that R-CALF placed on the mainstream organizations to consider broader perspectives and to open up their policy development to individuals beyond their traditional insular core will eventually make them more responsive to the needs of average members. The beef value chain has been shamefully obscure, so any action to provide more factual information is useful. The use of injunctions and hand-picking sympathetic judges to circumvent science and the legislative process is shameful, but was an effective lesson to the industry that a good lawyer can make flawed logic go a long ways.

R-CALF had a sharply split personality, as shown by its contradictory policies on COOL and National Animal Id. While the group fought aggressively to enact a traceback system identifying the country in which an animal was born, raised, and slaughtered for market purposes, R-CALF strongly opposed a system designed to traceback animals to the specific ranch on which they were born, feedlot they were raised, and plant they were slaughtered for food safety purposes. The systems could (should) have been one-in-the-same, but instead were conversely fought and supported in the same aggressive tone.

As with all splinter movements founded on rebel principles, the R-CALF inevitably splintered upon itself. So it was in the last two weeks as R-CALF collapsed under the weight of its own split personalities. While the good they've done on check-off and grass-roots organizational policy making may have long-lived usefulness, the damage they've done to the credibility of a single voice for the industry is likely temporary. Now that we've buried our splinters, it is up to us to build something better from the remaining good wood.
 
RobertMac said:
bmr, you and Tam are irrelevant to this discussion.

Well RobertMac since R-CALF's rhetoric and court actions against Canadian producers has affected Canadian producers probably more then it has US producers i guess we are feeling a little vindicated and some just pleasure in watching them implode.
The truth about Bullards scheming ways is coming to light. It is pretty entertaining watching some try to defend his actions. :lol:
 
My Dad god rest his soul had a perfect saying for this turn of events in R-Calf- "They ran around in ever decreasing circles till they disappearted up their own a..hole'. That captures it pefectly I'm thinking.
 
Tommy said:
Tam if it was illegal then Kiker would be able to take the presidency back. You have read and heard one side of this, and that suits your purpose. R-CALF is having regional meetings to discuss this a getting it out in the open. I am sure people have read the stuff that is being posted on Swift Horses, I am sure they are as up to date on this as you are Tam.

http://www.swifthorses.com/timeline/e5.pdf

Time to get out the By Laws.

Funny thing about the Regional meeting Tommy, Texas lost their Regional Representative . Is one of the regional meetings in Texas to explain why Chuck was booted and see to it someone replaces him to represent Texas?
Two Representatives from Montana and the Northwest are out or soon to be, is there a regional meeting in Montana or the northwest?

Three out of the four regional meeting are to be held in Regions that never lost their representatives. Missouri with Thornsberry, South Dakota with Johnny Smith and Tennesse with Barber. WHY? Why not use those regional meeting to elect new reps from the regions that lost their representatives? Texas, California and Southwest, and Montana and Northwest :???:
 
Funny thing about those regional reps, Tam, THEY RESIGNED!!! Now give your obsession a rest. You can't get even the simplest stuff right.
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
RobertMac said:
bmr, you and Tam are irrelevant to this discussion.

Well RobertMac since R-CALF's rhetoric and court actions against Canadian producers has affected Canadian producers probably more then it has US producers i guess we are feeling a little vindicated and some just pleasure in watching them implode.
The truth about Bullards scheming ways is coming to light. It is pretty entertaining watching some try to defend his actions. :lol:

"Court actions against Canadian producers"? What was that tag line your wife used to have about truth, facts, reality?
 

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