??????????? What'cha think

[PureCountry]

Soap, the "problem" of DDT being overused and abused is the basis of Dr. Huber's arguments against glyphosate. We have used it far more than it was ever meant to be used. It's original patent being for chelation and an antimicrobial, who ever though that 40 years late it would be used the way it is today?

That said, I will never agree that DDT has a place in ag or medicine. Disease takes hold where there is compromised immunity and malnutrition. Where does malaria effect the people in the article you posted? 3rd world countries kept that way for the convenience of governments to pillage their resources. It will take alot more than a little DDT on the walls to save the people of 3rd world nations, and I don't want to get into that right now.

As for chemical use in ag, if glyphosate had been used as it was originally intended, we would not see the problems we have today. Maybe it could still be used as part of weed management strategies, but in it's current use - and abuse - it is causing immeasurable harm, just like DDT did when mismanaged.

 

[nortexsook]

I agree. I think talking about these things can help us see it from all angles. I am not anti-progress nor do I want to go back to hoes and pitch forks.

The problem with videos like this to me is not the message, because there was a lot of truth there. What bothers me is most of the people that see this stuff want to run to big brother to protect them from this when in reality big brother is basically a front for these corporate interests. So they legislate so many rules and regs that only the corporate farms can afford to follow and buy insurance against all the perils. Who benefits from 10,000 agricultural laws? Tyson, Monsanto, ect........

Not Soap's family ranch or H's family ranch, ect......

 

[Anonymous]

I agree. I think talking about these things can help us see it from all angles. I am not anti-progress nor do I want to go back to hoes and pitch forks.

The problem with videos like this to me is not the message, because there was a lot of truth there. What bothers me is most of the people that see this stuff want to run to big brother to protect them from this when in reality big brother is basically a front for these corporate interests. So they legislate so many rules and regs that only the corporate farms can afford to follow and buy insurance against all the perils. Who benefits from 10,000 agricultural laws? Tyson, Monsanto, ect........

Not Soap's family ranch or H's family ranch, ect......

AMEN nortexsook... As was brought up in a discussion of the Dodge ad on another site- it represents the farmer/rancher/Ag of years ago- which we all still have an allure to (and maybe secret wish to return to)... And the Ag image that best sells a product-- even tho a large part of the Ag of today maybe doesn't look that way anymore...
A post I stole from the angus site:

it was a stereotypical ad of ag depicting yesterdays ag. Fact is, probably 1/3 of the ag ownership I deal with are suit tie, docker w/long sleave button collar shirt...multi millionaire multi location East to West to North To South US boarders...which is not what the ad cried toward

The other ad had many truths to it-- from our reliance on chemical and pharmaceutical companies to the government subsidies... Changes in farming have been tremendous- but even ranching- cattle production has changed...

Back in the old days there wasn't all the use of steroid implants, antibiotic use (especially in feed) , vaccines, minerals, protein supplements, etc... Cattle weren't transported around the country, with seedstock coming from everywhere in the nation/world- so cattle didn't have the access to so many diseases...
Until 20 years ago I'd never put out mineral or vaccinated (except for the required Bangs on replacements)- and we did fine....

Then if you really want to see a change in ranching- look at the government teat issue.. Subsidies or whatever you want to call them... Years ago it was just farmers- now with the Eqip moneys, grants, conservation easements and programs, federal backed insurance and disaster payments, etc. etc.- a majority of all active Ag producers receive some type of government money... 40% of the producers get direct subsidies- and the rest thru one of these other programs..
Years ago we used to tease the farmers about the Mailbox crease in the bill of their caps from staring into their mailbox looking for the government check-- now many of the ranchers have the same crease in their cowboy hats...
And if you really want to get nitpicky- if you count in the SNAP (food stamps) which is a form of subsidy to most agriculture products- anyone involved in production agriculture is benefiting from government subsidies...

With ranching you just change the name from Monsanto- to Pfizer, Merial, Tyson, and JBS Brazil- and you're about in the same boat...

 

[leanin' H]

I agree. I think talking about these things can help us see it from all angles. I am not anti-progress nor do I want to go back to hoes and pitch forks.

The problem with videos like this to me is not the message, because there was a lot of truth there. What bothers me is most of the people that see this stuff want to run to big brother to protect them from this when in reality big brother is basically a front for these corporate interests. So they legislate so many rules and regs that only the corporate farms can afford to follow and buy insurance against all the perils. Who benefits from 10,000 agricultural laws? Tyson, Monsanto, ect........

Not Soap's family ranch or H's family ranch, ect......

AMEN nortexsook... As was brought up in a discussion of the Dodge ad on another site- it represents the farmer/rancher/Ag of years ago- which we all still have an allure to (and maybe secret wish to return to)... And the Ag that best sells a product-- even tho a large part of the Ag of today maybe doesn't look that way...
A post I stole from the angus site:

it was a stereotypical ad of ag depicting yesterdays ag. Fact is, probably 1/3 of the ag ownership I deal with are suit tie, docker w/long sleave button collar shirt...multi millionaire multi location East to West to North To South US boarders...which is not what the ad cried toward

The other ad had many truths to it-- from our reliance on chemical and pharmaceutical companies to the government subsidies... Changes in farming have been tremendous- but even ranching- cattle production has changed...

Back in the old days there wasn't all the use of steroid implants, antibiotic use (especially in feed) , vaccines, minerals, protein supplements, etc... Cattle weren't transported around the country, with seedstock coming from everywhere in the nation/world- so cattle didn't have the access to so many diseases...
Until 20 years ago I'd never put out mineral or gave a cow/calf any type of vaccine- and we did fine....

Then if you really want to see a change in ranching- look at the government teat issue.. Subsidies or whatever you want to call them... Years ago it was just farmers- now with the Eqip moneys, grants, conservation easements and programs, federal backed insurance and disaster payments, etc. etc.- a majority of all active Ag producers receive some type of government money... 40% of the producers get direct subsidies- and the rest thru one of these other programs..
Years ago we used to tease the farmers about the Mailbox crease in the bill of their caps from staring into their mailbox looking for the government check-- now many of the ranchers have the same crease in their cowboy hats...
And if you really want to get nitpicky- if you count in the SNAP (food stamps) which is a form of subsidy to most agriculture products- anyone involved in production agriculture is benefiting from government subsidies...

With ranching you just change the name from Monsanto- to Pfizer, Merial, Tyson, and JBS Brazil- and you're about in the same boat...

Nobody but ranchers and farmers get subsidies right? :roll: I drove down the freeway last week and noticed fancy artwork on the overpasses and all kinds of decorative gardens on some interchanges. Who pays for that? All i need is a place to turn onto or off-of the road, but my takes and yours pays for that fluff. I'd rather spend that money on roads. Then i drove further and saw miles of wildlife fencing with deer and elk underpasses to allow migrating wildlife to cross thses freeways. Somebody paid for that too Oldimer. My money taken in taxes goes to all kinds of things i dont use. My property taxes just went up to pay for more schools, a library and senior recreation center. I don't need any of those things living out here on the desert, but i still pay for them. From home mortgages write offs to new window tax breaks to write offs for home business, EVERY PERSON IN AMERICA gets some kind of subsidy!!! Big corparations get plenty. Why shouldnt a rancher take atvantage of the ones he can?

Now don't get me wrong, i'd like to see every business stand on its own merits and strength without ANY subsidies! But until they are done away with across the board, i see no reason not to play by the rules of the game we are all in! I agree with Nortexsook and Pure Country that we all must work toward cutting the fat and transforming agriculture the best we can. But it will still take time to change things and STILL FEED THE MASSES!

And i am not ticked off at anyone as we have visited about our various opinions. I love to stretch my brain and see if i can learn something. This might be kinda political Oldtimer, but for a guy who complains to high heaven about how bad big corporations are, you sure like biggger government. :roll: The money spent by the gov makes the stuff agriculture corps get seem like chump change. :wink:

And i still hate the message that stupid video sends regardless of the intent of the makers. Its junk and its mostly lies and its NOT ANYTHING CLOSE TO WHAT AGRICULTURE IS ABOUT! Its a very narrow veiw of a vocation filled with families and people who love the land and the production they get from it. I gotta go stand by the mailbox and wait for a check now. Probably be standing there awhile as i ain't never got one, so this is goodbye my freinds. Oldtimer says it coming and i better go wait. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

I agree. I think talking about these things can help us see it from all angles. I am not anti-progress nor do I want to go back to hoes and pitch forks.

The problem with videos like this to me is not the message, because there was a lot of truth there. What bothers me is most of the people that see this stuff want to run to big brother to protect them from this when in reality big brother is basically a front for these corporate interests. So they legislate so many rules and regs that only the corporate farms can afford to follow and buy insurance against all the perils. Who benefits from 10,000 agricultural laws? Tyson, Monsanto, ect........

Not Soap's family ranch or H's family ranch, ect......

AMEN nortexsook... As was brought up in a discussion of the Dodge ad on another site- it represents the farmer/rancher/Ag of years ago- which we all still have an allure to (and maybe secret wish to return to)... And the Ag that best sells a product-- even tho a large part of the Ag of today maybe doesn't look that way...
A post I stole from the angus site:

it was a stereotypical ad of ag depicting yesterdays ag. Fact is, probably 1/3 of the ag ownership I deal with are suit tie, docker w/long sleave button collar shirt...multi millionaire multi location East to West to North To South US boarders...which is not what the ad cried toward

The other ad had many truths to it-- from our reliance on chemical and pharmaceutical companies to the government subsidies... Changes in farming have been tremendous- but even ranching- cattle production has changed...

Back in the old days there wasn't all the use of steroid implants, antibiotic use (especially in feed) , vaccines, minerals, protein supplements, etc... Cattle weren't transported around the country, with seedstock coming from everywhere in the nation/world- so cattle didn't have the access to so many diseases...
Until 20 years ago I'd never put out mineral or gave a cow/calf any type of vaccine- and we did fine....

Then if you really want to see a change in ranching- look at the government teat issue.. Subsidies or whatever you want to call them... Years ago it was just farmers- now with the Eqip moneys, grants, conservation easements and programs, federal backed insurance and disaster payments, etc. etc.- a majority of all active Ag producers receive some type of government money... 40% of the producers get direct subsidies- and the rest thru one of these other programs..
Years ago we used to tease the farmers about the Mailbox crease in the bill of their caps from staring into their mailbox looking for the government check-- now many of the ranchers have the same crease in their cowboy hats...
And if you really want to get nitpicky- if you count in the SNAP (food stamps) which is a form of subsidy to most agriculture products- anyone involved in production agriculture is benefiting from government subsidies...

With ranching you just change the name from Monsanto- to Pfizer, Merial, Tyson, and JBS Brazil- and you're about in the same boat...

Nobody but ranchers and farmers get subsidies right? :roll: I drove down the freeway last week and noticed fancy artwork on the overpasses and all kinds of decorative gardens on some interchanges. Who pays for that? All i need is a place to turn onto or off-of the road, but my takes and yours pays for that fluff. I'd rather spend that money on roads. Then i drove further and saw miles of wildlife fencing with deer and elk underpasses to allow migrating wildlife to cross thses freeways. Somebody paid for that too Oldimer. My money taken in taxes goes to all kinds of things i dont use. My property taxes just went up to pay for more schools, a library and senior recreation center. I don't need any of those things living out here on the desert, but i still pay for them. From home mortgages write offs to new window tax breaks to write offs for home business, EVERY PERSON IN AMERICA gets some kind of subsidy!!! Big corparations get plenty. Why shouldnt a rancher take atvantage of the ones he can?

I never said they shouldn't-- but some Ag producers get all upset when you mention there are special subsidies for their involvement in production agriculture as was presented in that video....I think mainly they don't like/want to accept the truth of government subsidies because it interfers with the old time image of being independent...

 

[Haytrucker]

I'm in a a funny spot here, as I can't disagree with anyone. I will say that I have never recieved any government subsidies, that weren't recycled as wages...
I feel if my taxes were less, I could contribute more time and money to helping my local community, and three politicians, and 47 federal employees might have to actually work for a living, crap that will never work out ; the unemployment benefits will kill me....

 

[mytfarms]

mytfarms, why make a comment like that? H and I were just agreeing that we all have to stand together to make change.

PC, here's my logic.
Besides the fact that in past years I made it a point not to agree with Kola on anything as a matter of principle, I agree with a lot of things in this video. I think there's some truth to it. What does not make sense to me is why someone felt the need to post a video that was composed with a condescending tone towards production agriculture on a site filled with people who make their living from production agriculture. Seemed destined to stir the pot, which it did. I'm all for an edifying conversation on what's wrong with the system and how we can fix it in a collaborative effort, but I don't know that this video was intended for such.

 

[Anonymous]

mytfarms, why make a comment like that? H and I were just agreeing that we all have to stand together to make change.

PC, here's my logic.
Besides the fact that in past years I made it a point not to agree with Kola on anything as a matter of principle, I agree with a lot of things in this video. I think there's some truth to it. What does not make sense to me is why someone felt the need to post a video that was composed with a condescending tone towards production agriculture on a site filled with people who make their living from production agriculture. Seemed destined to stir the pot, which it did. I'm all for an edifying conversation on what's wrong with the system and how we can fix it in a collaborative effort, but I don't know that this video was intended for such.

Myt- would you rather not know that this video exists :???: Sticking our head in the sand- or pretending a problem does not exist-- does not solve the problem or make it go away...

We would not be discussing the problem or bringing up ideas on possible ways to fix it- if someone hadn't brought it to our attention...

 

[mytfarms]

Again, I think the video says a lot of things that ring with truth. I've read a several books by Joel Salatin, I think Food, Inc. has a lot of good information, and I agree that our food system is screwed up. On the other hand, I would submit to you that there would have been a slightely less offensive manner in which to start discussing this. My only point.

 

[kolanuraven]

mytfarms, why make a comment like that? H and I were just agreeing that we all have to stand together to make change.

PC, here's my logic.
Besides the fact that in past years I made it a point not to agree with Kola on anything as a matter of principle, I agree with a lot of things in this video. I think there's some truth to it. What does not make sense to me is why someone felt the need to post a video that was composed with a condescending tone towards production agriculture on a site filled with people who make their living from production agriculture. Seemed destined to stir the pot, which it did. I'm all for an edifying conversation on what's wrong with the system and how we can fix it in a collaborative effort, but I don't know that this video was intended for such.

BOO!! Did I scare ya? You really seemed to be bothered by me!!! Good!!

And, if you are truly the age you claim to be you are immature and this comment and the previous show this.

You want to attack the poster not the post! Oh, but wait, you fit right in here with this crowd already.

Wake up boy, put down those grocery store novellas of the " wild and romantic west".

The days of the glorious rancher, riding into the sunset, barn dances and the like are OVER!

Ranching/farming has to be run as business or you are gonna be up shite creek!!

Concentrate on the material infront of you, not who brought it!!!

It's called INFORMATION and it's not always what you want to hear, facts can be funny like that sometimes.

Did you even bother to notice that I have not made a comment about this thread?

 

[Hereford76]

myt

the days of the glorious rancher, barn dances, and romance aren't over. they're only over for the folks that want to run a farm/ranch strictly as a business... you can run it as a business and a way of life and keep the traditions alive.

 

[Larrry]

Exactly 76

 

[Anonymous]

Article in yesterdays Billings Gazette about all the big ranches and family operations being bought out by the millionaires and billionaires as investments since the Wall Street Bust... We've been seeing that around here for 15-20 years... One leather company family came into the area- and in a 2 or 3 county area bought upwards of $25 Million worth of ranchs-- leasing back some and putting some into hunting/conservation holdings...

So much anymore being utilized only as an investment- with no long term commitment to the land- the cattle- or ties to the community...Many of the owners don't even live here and see their investment a few times a year if that-- caring only what the accountant tells them the books are saying...

And then if they could get the land- and do a pocket rewarding swap/easement with an environmental or hunting group- that was even better...But in most cases it takes the land one more step out of ever again being controlled by family farmer/ranchers...

"The last 15 years, operating ranches have had pretty good appreciation values," he said. "That's been fairly steady."

With interest rates at all-time lows, and memories of the stock market's crash still fresh, buyers looking for a safe place to park their cash were perfectly situated to take advantage of lower land values. Billionaires were seeking large production ranches that could offer a return of at least 1 to 3 percent, Fay said.

They were the ones paying $15 million to $100 million for larger properties. Mere millionaires were also looking to buy recreation properties, he added, at prices ranging from $1 million to $5 million.


Read more: http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/ranch-sales-rise-as-wealthy-investors-put-cash-in-land/article_c0b70ee3-2e86-5a23-83f3-81e1eb281b5a.html#ixzz2KYIJrqcu

 

[Larrry]

They haven't bought mine or any of my neighbors
Have they bought yours

 

[Mike]

Article in yesterdays Billings Gazette about all the big ranches and family operations being bought out by the millionaires and billionaires as investments since the Wall Street Bust... We've been seeing that around here for 15-20 years... One leather company family came into the area- and in a 2 or 3 county area bought upwards of $25 Million worth of ranchs-- leasing back some and putting some into hunting/conservation holdings...

So much anymore being utilized only as an investment- with no long term commitment to the land- the cattle- or ties to the community...Many of the owners don't even live here and see their investment a few times a year if that-- caring only what the accountant tells them the books are saying...

And then if they could get the land- and do a pocket rewarding swap/easement with an environmental or hunting group- that was even better...But in most cases it takes the land one more step out of ever again being controlled by family farmer/ranchers...

"The last 15 years, operating ranches have had pretty good appreciation values," he said. "That's been fairly steady."

With interest rates at all-time lows, and memories of the stock market's crash still fresh, buyers looking for a safe place to park their cash were perfectly situated to take advantage of lower land values. Billionaires were seeking large production ranches that could offer a return of at least 1 to 3 percent, Fay said.

They were the ones paying $15 million to $100 million for larger properties. Mere millionaires were also looking to buy recreation properties, he added, at prices ranging from $1 million to $5 million.


Read more: http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/ranch-sales-rise-as-wealthy-investors-put-cash-in-land/article_c0b70ee3-2e86-5a23-83f3-81e1eb281b5a.html#ixzz2KYIJrqcu

I knew the "Wealth Envy" would come out. :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Article in yesterdays Billings Gazette about all the big ranches and family operations being bought out by the millionaires and billionaires as investments since the Wall Street Bust... We've been seeing that around here for 15-20 years... One leather company family came into the area- and in a 2 or 3 county area bought upwards of $25 Million worth of ranchs-- leasing back some and putting some into hunting/conservation holdings...

So much anymore being utilized only as an investment- with no long term commitment to the land- the cattle- or ties to the community...Many of the owners don't even live here and see their investment a few times a year if that-- caring only what the accountant tells them the books are saying...

And then if they could get the land- and do a pocket rewarding swap/easement with an environmental or hunting group- that was even better...But in most cases it takes the land one more step out of ever again being controlled by family farmer/ranchers...

"The last 15 years, operating ranches have had pretty good appreciation values," he said. "That's been fairly steady."

With interest rates at all-time lows, and memories of the stock market's crash still fresh, buyers looking for a safe place to park their cash were perfectly situated to take advantage of lower land values. Billionaires were seeking large production ranches that could offer a return of at least 1 to 3 percent, Fay said.

They were the ones paying $15 million to $100 million for larger properties. Mere millionaires were also looking to buy recreation properties, he added, at prices ranging from $1 million to $5 million.


Read more: http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/ranch-sales-rise-as-wealthy-investors-put-cash-in-land/article_c0b70ee3-2e86-5a23-83f3-81e1eb281b5a.html#ixzz2KYIJrqcu

I knew the "Wealth Envy" would come out. :roll:

I don't know if its so much wealth envy-- or just an article on how the farming ranching world is changing... More the people like J Reut described that he deals with:

it was a stereotypical ad of ag depicting yesterdays ag. Fact is, probably 1/3 of the ag ownership I deal with are suit tie, docker w/long sleave button collar shirt...multi millionaire multi location East to West to North To South US boarders...which is not what the ad cried toward

And some of these don't even know where their barn(s) is/are let alone to have a barn dance there... :wink:

But I do have to agree that some of those outsiders have benefited the state - an example is Thomas Siebel a billionaire who purchased the N Bar Ranch-- but also donated millions to get the Montana Meth Project started...

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

mytfarms, why make a comment like that? H and I were just agreeing that we all have to stand together to make change.

PC, here's my logic.
Besides the fact that in past years I made it a point not to agree with Kola on anything as a matter of principle, I agree with a lot of things in this video. I think there's some truth to it. What does not make sense to me is why someone felt the need to post a video that was composed with a condescending tone towards production agriculture on a site filled with people who make their living from production agriculture. Seemed destined to stir the pot, which it did. I'm all for an edifying conversation on what's wrong with the system and how we can fix it in a collaborative effort, but I don't know that this video was intended for such.

BOO!! Did I scare ya? You really seemed to be bothered by me!!! Good!!

And, if you are truly the age you claim to be you are immature and this comment and the previous show this.

You want to attack the poster not the post! Oh, but wait, you fit right in here with this crowd already.

Wake up boy, put down those grocery store novellas of the " wild and romantic west".

The days of the glorious rancher, riding into the sunset, barn dances and the like are OVER!

Ranching/farming has to be run as business or you are gonna be up shite creek!!

Concentrate on the material infront of you, not who brought it!!!

It's called INFORMATION and it's not always what you want to hear, facts can be funny like that sometimes.

Did you even bother to notice that I have not made a comment about this thread?

There you go again. :roll: Accusing someone of not being who they claim to be. MYT has been here since he was about 14. Us people that pay attention and participate know who he he is. :cowboy:

You didn't make a comment about this thread and neither did I. But you make posts about other that make their beliefs known while you wait in the shadows to snipe.

 

[Faster horses]

I've never considered MYT immature.
Quite the contrary, actually.

And yep, he's been here a long time. He's credible.

 

[kolanuraven]

I've never considered MYT immature.
.

You wouldn't!




:roll:

 

[kolanuraven]

PC, here's my logic.
Besides the fact that in past years I made it a point not to agree with Kola on anything as a matter of principle, I agree with a lot of things in this video. I think there's some truth to it. What does not make sense to me is why someone felt the need to post a video that was composed with a condescending tone towards production agriculture on a site filled with people who make their living from production agriculture. Seemed destined to stir the pot, which it did. I'm all for an edifying conversation on what's wrong with the system and how we can fix it in a collaborative effort, but I don't know that this video was intended for such.

BOO!! Did I scare ya? You really seemed to be bothered by me!!! Good!!

And, if you are truly the age you claim to be you are immature and this comment and the previous show this.

You want to attack the poster not the post! Oh, but wait, you fit right in here with this crowd already.

Wake up boy, put down those grocery store novellas of the " wild and romantic west".

The days of the glorious rancher, riding into the sunset, barn dances and the like are OVER!

Ranching/farming has to be run as business or you are gonna be up shite creek!!

Concentrate on the material infront of you, not who brought it!!!

It's called INFORMATION and it's not always what you want to hear, facts can be funny like that sometimes.

Did you even bother to notice that I have not made a comment about this thread?

There you go again. :roll: Accusing someone of not being who they claim to be. MYT has been here since he was about 14. Us people that pay attention and participate know who he he is. :cowboy:

You didn't make a comment about this thread and neither did I. But you make posts about other that make their beliefs known while you wait in the shadows to snipe.

Pfftt...............