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What's She Worth

N

Northern Rancher

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saskatchewan
What would a bred back second calver be worth in relation to a bred heifer- the situation is she's bred back in 50 days-has raised a good calf and all the warts and wobbles are culled. The buyer would have the pick of the ranches total crop of second calvers. It would be an ongoing process. Thses aren't my cattle so worthless doesn't count as an answer lol. I think it should be worth a premium to the buyer and for the seller he's selling a product that he can have a little more confidence in. After reading some of the heifer calving derailments It got me thinking. In an ongoing buyer/seller relationship they could be rebred to the buyers choice of bulls.
 
I had a friend who did something similar, and he did well. He'd wean a little earlier to get them fleshed back up, then sell them as breds.
 
Good question nr......... Depends on quality.... I would think if they are premium functional cattle... $1700. A guy who owns a salebarn says cows will be $2,000.00 by this fall.... I know if they do get that high I'm selling out!!
 
Why would she be worth anymore than a 2-yr old?
Yeah she raised a calf, bred back etc, but she probably wasn't synched & AI'd as a 3 compared to a 2. Bred heif's sell for a premium here, and the rest of the cows sell at or below top dollar heifs.
I'd be happy to get 90% to even par for my 3's as compared to the heifer price.
Not tryin' to argue with ya NR, I'm just sayin' what happens around here. 8)
 
Based on some semblance of data...
most breeds have about a 35 pound difference in the age of dam adjustments for 2 vs. 3 year olds.
35 pounds of calf at $1.25 = $43.75

Typically 10-20% of heifers are lost on breedback as first calvers, with the tradeoff being that the ones that stay you don't get that one extra calf. Let's call it 15%, and say 5% of the 2 year olds don't breed back at 3, thus the fallout is 10% on average on second calvers.
$1000 bred heifer * 1.10 = $100 premium
Breeding costs = $50 (to bull of choice and synched add $25)

Probably a $200-250 premium or so (increase with marketing, etc.) and you keep the first calf.

I know when bred heifers are at a premium you are usually better off buying young cows...

Or as much as you can get!!! :wink:
 
All this figuring and nobody is adjusting for one less calf in the lifetime. Isn't a cow in reality the net present value of future cash flows?

One less calf makes a big difference in the future cash flows.
 
nortexsook said:
All this figuring and nobody is adjusting for one less calf in the lifetime. Isn't a cow in reality the net present value of future cash flows?

One less calf makes a big difference in the future cash flows.
Click to expand...

Thought I had? Also add an upward adjustment for the fact of reduced dystocia.
I figured that the reduced out rate would account for one less calf.
 
I'm thinking a bit on the labor issue side also-second calvers should be able to go out with the main cowherd and get to calving-alot of places have to calve their heifers separately and hire extra crew. I'll pose another question what are your thoughts on formula pricing cattle-basically the bred cattle are priced off the Nov. 1 500 pound steer price for example. X times Nov. 1 steer price. If your are using a 2X formula an $800 steer would equate to a $1600 heifer. I've used that formula in the past-the only bugaboo was BSE which threw everything out the window and I had 200 or so extra heifers to calve.
 
I think the X times a 550# steer value is a much more realistic way to look at pricing cows/heifers.

The only trouble is what is X (no this isn't algebra)?

550# times 1.45 = $797.50 times 2 = $1,595 for a bred heifer of known quality and bred to decent stock.

To answer you're original question, experience tells me you will be doing well to sell the threes at par with the twos. Not saying there isn't extra value there, just that the market sees it different.

Things like synching and breeding or AI'ing are separate issues that add or subtract value but are separate from the 3 vs 2 issue.

Now a separate question is: Do you feel comfortable buying $1,600 bred cows?
 
A different way to look at it.

A couple years ago I made an offer to a guy to take 30-40 head of heifer calves in April, breed them twice and send me the bred 3"s.
He would have had to provide the bull for the 2"s and I would provide for the 3"s.
He would have run them 20 months, I keep all salvage value off the opens and ones that lose their calf.
He owns all the calves that are born on his place and I would have paid $50 extra for every 3 that was bred
Only cows that raised their own calf would have been allowed to stay. Vet bills on the cow would have been my responsibility, on the calves would have been his.

I got turned down.
 
Doug Thorson said:
A different way to look at it.

A couple years ago I made an offer to a guy to take 30-40 head of heifer calves in April, breed them twice and send me the bred 3"s.
He would have had to provide the bull for the 2"s and I would provide for the 3"s.
He would have run them 20 months, I keep all salvage value off the opens and ones that lose their calf.
He owns all the calves that are born on his place and I would have paid $50 extra for every 3 that was bred
Only cows that raised their own calf would have been allowed to stay. Vet bills on the cow would have been my responsibility, on the calves would have been his.

I got turned down.
Click to expand...


interesting. i was offerred similiar deal--but take calves in the fall. 70-30 is typical split here----so i'd be running them extra 12 mos for additional 30%. i declined.

but your deal i'd of took--had i been looking. the extra 8 mos would be mostly grass mo's, the cow vet bill and breed back bonus make it sweeter.

on regular share deal some guys put in death loss clause---anything over 5% on calves, the guy running them eats, over 2% 0n cows is replaced by heifer calf at runners expense. all cows 4-10 yoa.

when i put them out, hef's get my brand--sts his
 
I think the 3's are worth more than bred heifers. The reason being is around here they can be purchased a bit cheaper than bred heifers. Mainly being that they are'nt as fat and flashy. I prefer raiseing my own heifers but if I ever buy cows again they will be 3's or coming 4's much better deal in my book than a load of put together salebarn heifers.

In the end fat sells here weather we want to admit it or not. We all like fat cows and skinny women go figure.
 
My deal was when I was still on the commercial side. My place was ans still is on the small side so my thought was if I only had cows that were 3 and up I could make a loads easier.
 

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