WHEN WILL THE AMI ALLOW THE USDA TO PERMIT TESTING

[Mike]

What ever happened to the retailers giving the consumers a choice :???: Offer the products and let the consumer choose-- organic, BSE tested, generic, USA beef, Canuck, etc, whatever.....

Tam does your clothing store offer only pale blue shirts and black pants? I doubt it unless you live on a Hoot colony- they give you a choice.......

Do the clothes you buy come with a label that makes you assume they are safer to wear that the other clothes on the rack. :roll:

The last pair of Levi's that I ate were far safer than the Lee's and Wrangler's that my wife prefers. :wink: :wink:

 

[Tam]

MRJ, there is no reluctance to test from any cattlemen that I've talked to.

I think your concerns can be addressed with an informative label. Something like, "This product has been tested with the Bio-Rad test. Today's science disagrees on the effectiveness of this test. BSE testing does not guarantee BSE free".

I have to ask Sandhusker what kind of premium will the consumer pay for meat with that label or would the beef just set in the case until the retailer had to toss it and recoop his loses by paying less for the next batch of unlabeled beef. I'll give you one thing Sandhusker if you were working for the Pork of Chicken industry they would be proud of you for thinking up this label to put on BEEF. Why don't you just put a label that says EAT AT OWN RISK. it would sell about as much beef. :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

What ever happened to the retailers giving the consumers a choice :???: Offer the products and let the consumer choose-- organic, BSE tested, generic, USA beef, Canuck, etc, whatever.....

Tam does your clothing store offer only pale blue shirts and black pants? I doubt it unless you live on a Hoot colony- they give you a choice.......

Do the clothes you buy come with a label that makes you assume they are safer to wear that the other clothes on the rack. :roll:

Many come with a long time proven label that makes me sure I'm getting my dollars worth- and some imposters put out an identical product that falls apart--Kind of like the Canucks having to ride on the shirtails of what the US cattlemen built...:roll: :roll: ....

 

[Sandhusker]

MRJ, there is no reluctance to test from any cattlemen that I've talked to.

I think your concerns can be addressed with an informative label. Something like, "This product has been tested with the Bio-Rad test. Today's science disagrees on the effectiveness of this test. BSE testing does not guarantee BSE free".

I have to ask Sandhusker what kind of premium will the consumer pay for meat with that label or would the beef just set in the case until the retailer had to toss it and recoop his loses by paying less for the next batch of unlabeled beef. I'll give you one thing Sandhusker if you were working for the Pork of Chicken industry they would be proud of you for thinking up this label to put on BEEF. Why don't you just put a label that says EAT AT OWN RISK. it would sell about as much beef. :roll:

I've said to look at other examples how many times now? Why do you want to guess and specualte where there are plenty of examples that you can draw on? What premium is being paid for organic? How much of that rotted? This isn't rocket science here.

 

[Tam]

What ever happened to the retailers giving the consumers a choice :???: Offer the products and let the consumer choose-- organic, BSE tested, generic, USA beef, Canuck, etc, whatever.....

Tam does your clothing store offer only pale blue shirts and black pants? I doubt it unless you live on a Hoot colony- they give you a choice.......

Do the clothes you buy come with a label that makes you assume they are safer to wear that the other clothes on the rack. :roll:

Many come with a long time proven label that makes me sure I'm getting my dollars worth- and some imposters put out an identical product that falls apart--Kind of like the Canucks having to ride on the shirtails of what the US cattlemen built...:roll: :roll: ....

Where do I start.

Many come with a long time proven label that makes me sure I'm getting my dollars worth-

Tell us Oldtimer how many people buy a long time proven labeled shirt because they fear they will come down with a fatal disease if the buy the cheaper one.

some imposters put out an identical product that falls apart-

I would say if it fell apart it wasn't IDENTICAL OLDTIMER it was inferior. and who is the imposer Oldtimer the guys in Bangladesh that make long time proven labeled Wrangler shirts?

--Kind of like the Canucks having to ride on the shirtails of what the US cattlemen built...:

Now that is an example of IDENTICAL PRODUCT Oldtimer. ( BSE in both NATIVE HERDS) But your long time proven label seem to be the one falling apart here as it is your system that you don't trust to import cattle into as YOUR SYSTEM will spread the disease, and is YOUR System that the Japanese just stopped importing from again. Gee doesn't that make the long time proven label the INFERIOR PRODUCT.

US cattlemen built

with alot of good Canadian genetics and Canadian support. :wink: It has been proven more than once Oldtimer the US cattlemen wouldn't have some of what you have if your weren't importing cattle from Canada. As what happen to some of you slaughter plants and feedlots that lost access to Canadian cattle. Didn't they cut shifts, lock doors and run with empty pens . And if you weren't importing from us would you have enough beef to support your own domestic demand let alone any EXPORT MARKETS.
Come on Oldtimer you have already used the shirttail comment, it is time for you to question my loyolties to my homeland. :roll:

 

[Jason]

Organic beef costs more, it implys it is healthier than non-organic, but not that non-organic will kill you.


All beef is organic by definition.


(Research Lawblaws and the questions they got from posting "naturalbeef" a few years back. Is the other beef unnatural?)

BSE tested implys BSE free and thus safe, non-tested would be implyed as unsafe and deadly.

 

[Sandhusker]

Organic beef costs more, it implys it is healthier than non-organic, but not that non-organic will kill you.


All beef is organic by definition.


(Research Lawblaws and the questions they got from posting "naturalbeef" a few years back. Is the other beef unnatural?)

BSE tested implys BSE free and thus safe, non-tested would be implyed as unsafe and deadly.

Volvo advertises about the strength of their roofs and how it is the strongest in the event of roll over. Are they implying that any other vehicle is less safe and deadly?

 

[Jason]

Volvo's ads would be comparable to the organic vs nonorganic.

Other brands of cars drive everyday and people get around safely. They have proof their cars resist the test crashes better but it doesn't mean other cars are death traps.

BSE being a health/food safety issue needs to remain in the hands of public bodies, not private for profit companies.

The AMA oversees doctors, if a new private college were to be recognized to licence doctors, what garantee is there that the standards would be the same as the AMA? If the standards were the same, why have a second body of oversight?

 

[Tam]

Organic beef costs more, it implys it is healthier than non-organic, but not that non-organic will kill you.


All beef is organic by definition.


(Research Lawblaws and the questions they got from posting "naturalbeef" a few years back. Is the other beef unnatural?)

BSE tested implys BSE free and thus safe, non-tested would be implyed as unsafe and deadly.

Volvo advertises about the strength of their roofs and how it is the strongest in the event of roll over. Are they implying that any other vehicle is less safe and deadly?

Sandhusker does Volvo have an organization within the industry telling consumers that all cars made without the strength of the volvo roof design are deadly and not fit for humans to drive? Think about the scare tactics R-CALF has put to the media and tell us that anyone that believed them is going to look at a label that reads BSE tested and not assume is safer than the meat that is not labeled. THE TEST DOESN"T GUARANTEE IT IS SAFE AS THE TEST CAN BE WRONG . Letting people assume it is safer is a FRAUD of which you support. And you get after the USDA about a label that says USDA INSPECTED as people might assume it is US BEEF and not imported. IS the USDA INSPECTED imported meat any different than the USDA INSPECTED domestic meat NO as it has to pass the same INSPECTION PROCESS. Is the BSE TESTED beef safer than the nontested NO because the test will not work on younger animals and those not within week of showing systom. The OIE says, SRM REMOVAL MAKES ALL BEEF SAFE NOT TESTING. Teach the consumers the truth and stop playing to their emotions and fears and we will be alot better off as we will not be expected to test for something everytime a consumer groups gets another fear.

 

[Econ101]

Organic beef costs more, it implys it is healthier than non-organic, but not that non-organic will kill you.


All beef is organic by definition.


(Research Lawblaws and the questions they got from posting "naturalbeef" a few years back. Is the other beef unnatural?)

BSE tested implys BSE free and thus safe, non-tested would be implyed as unsafe and deadly.

Volvo advertises about the strength of their roofs and how it is the strongest in the event of roll over. Are they implying that any other vehicle is less safe and deadly?

Sandhusker does Volvo have an organization within the industry telling consumers that all cars made without the strength of the volvo roof design are deadly and not fit for humans to drive? Think about the scare tactics R-CALF has put to the media and tell us that anyone that believed them is going to look at a label that reads BSE tested and not assume is safer than the meat that is not labeled. THE TEST DOESN"T GUARANTEE IT IS SAFE AS THE TEST CAN BE WRONG . Letting people assume it is safer is a FRAUD of which you support. And you get after the USDA about a label that says USDA INSPECTED as people might assume it is US BEEF and not imported. IS the USDA INSPECTED imported meat any different than the USDA INSPECTED domestic meat NO as it has to pass the same INSPECTION PROCESS. Is the BSE TESTED beef safer than the nontested NO because the test will not work on younger animals and those not within week of showing systom. The OIE says, SRM REMOVAL MAKES ALL BEEF SAFE NOT TESTING. Teach the consumers the truth and stop playing to their emotions and fears and we will be alot better off as we will not be expected to test for something everytime a consumer groups gets another fear.

Tam, bse tester says his tests will work on younger animals.

 

[cowsense]

Econ.......Show us where pee-tester has an approved testing procedure......as usual you are long on speculation and completely devoid of any fact!

 

[Econ101]

Econ.......Show us where pee-tester has an approved testing procedure......as usual you are long on speculation and completely devoid of any fact!

Cowsense, the USDA isn't approving anyone but themselves and they have been an utter failure at carrying out their legal responsibilities. If the Japanese have a test they like and it doesn't hurt anyone, let them have it done. Does it hurt anything?

 

[Mike]

Econ.......Show us where pee-tester has an approved testing procedure......as usual you are long on speculation and completely devoid of any fact!

Ron has said his test uses Western-Blot technology.

The only difference, I presume, is in the protease resistant antibody used.

With the correct antibody, it would undoubtedly find misfolded prions if they were there.

 

[Sandhusker]

Organic beef costs more, it implys it is healthier than non-organic, but not that non-organic will kill you.


All beef is organic by definition.


(Research Lawblaws and the questions they got from posting "naturalbeef" a few years back. Is the other beef unnatural?)

BSE tested implys BSE free and thus safe, non-tested would be implyed as unsafe and deadly.

Volvo advertises about the strength of their roofs and how it is the strongest in the event of roll over. Are they implying that any other vehicle is less safe and deadly?

Sandhusker does Volvo have an organization within the industry telling consumers that all cars made without the strength of the volvo roof design are deadly and not fit for humans to drive? Think about the scare tactics R-CALF has put to the media and tell us that anyone that believed them is going to look at a label that reads BSE tested and not assume is safer than the meat that is not labeled. THE TEST DOESN"T GUARANTEE IT IS SAFE AS THE TEST CAN BE WRONG . Letting people assume it is safer is a FRAUD of which you support. And you get after the USDA about a label that says USDA INSPECTED as people might assume it is US BEEF and not imported. IS the USDA INSPECTED imported meat any different than the USDA INSPECTED domestic meat NO as it has to pass the same INSPECTION PROCESS. Is the BSE TESTED beef safer than the nontested NO because the test will not work on younger animals and those not within week of showing systom. The OIE says, SRM REMOVAL MAKES ALL BEEF SAFE NOT TESTING. Teach the consumers the truth and stop playing to their emotions and fears and we will be alot better off as we will not be expected to test for something everytime a consumer groups gets another fear.

No, Tam, Volvo does not claim any car other than their cars are unsafe. Mute point, I haven't seen anybody claim that only tested beef is safe, either.

Please, please, please, I BEG of you to look at applicable examples! So many parallels between tested beef and organic exist, yet you refuse to make the comparison. I don't understand that. Organic makes implications that you don't agree with and science can't back. Organic is a niche market that doesn't effect you. Yet, it is allowed. If you want to tell the consumers something, tell them. You probably would be wasting your time with the Japanese, however. Yet, THE PRECIDENCE THAT A FOOD PRODUCT THAT IMPLIES QUALITY AND/OR SAFETY THAT CAN'T BE BACKED SCIENTIFICLY HAS ALREADY BEEN SET WITH ORGANIC.
Tam, organic product has not upset this industry. People are still eating beef that has been untested. Doesn't this tell you something at all?

 

[Econ101]

Testing might show that the BSE surveillance has been a fraud all along. It might make Tyson stop feeding MBM to its poultry operations where cattle that go into the feed yards out west eat it and get mixed in with other cattle. As TSS and Reader 2 can attest, it might save the life of you or your neighbor.

Testing wouldn't hurt anything except the current "truth" that some people are touting.

I like to trick (kidding) my kids all the time. It sharpens them up for the SH's of the world. My youngest catches on pretty fast, and my older ones know I when their leg is being pulled. When my youngest really wants to know and is suspicious of my answer because she thought about it instead of just taking an answer that sounds good she will say in her semi-mean voice, "Dad, I want the real truth".

It is about time we had that at the USDA. Everyone should be calling for hearings on GIPSA, BSE, and Johannes spending U.S. taxpayer money on pet projects instead of enforcing the laws, not just Senator Harkin.

Tam, you and the other Canadian packer backers should go talk to your government as well instead of participating in this incestuous relationship.

 

[bse-tester]

Mike Wrote:

Ron has said his test uses Western-Blot technology.

The only difference, I presume, is in the protease resistant antibody used.

With the correct antibody, it would undoubtedly find misfolded prions if they were there.

Our antibody Mike was developed specifically for our test. More than one bunny gave up their future to ensure the antibody was indeed the right one. As you know Mike, finding the correct antibody to bind with the target is essential in that you are trying to achieve the best reaction or nonreaction to the PK digestion. Our test uses an antibody that was developed for us by the US National Prion Surveillance Center in Cleveland Ohio, and it is one that not only enhances the sensitivity of our test but literally garantees that we have precise and extremely accurate results each and every time. And yes, we can not only detect the presence of PrP, PrPc and of course, PrPsc in an animal, we can do it regardless of the age of the animal. Age is not a factor in the lab. It is however, apparently a major factor when it comes to convincing people around the world that beef and beef products are marketable. The 30 month age limit has and will always be a major concern to those of us who know it to be a false icon developed for one purpose only - to try to placate the masses into thinking that beef under the age of 30 months are not susceptable to prion disease. This came about due to the length of the incubation period in cattle (approx 6-9years) and was set as a hallmark which would dictate whether or not there was a risk of the animal displaying the clinical symptoms of the disease. Of course, from then on, it evolved into a falsehood that came to be known as the 30 month barrier which was then bastardized to mean that no animal younger than 30 months could have BSE instead of meaning that few, if any animals ever displayed clinical symptoms prior to the age of 30 months. Of course, this is absolutely wrong and it is like saying that a human cannot contract HIV if he or she is younger than 25!!! Our test will show the presence of the misfolded rogue prion (PrPsc) regardless of the age of the animal or human in as little as 1 ml of urine taken from the living donor- period! As for cost and the reasons behind testing - the cost per animal is going to be around US10.00 - US$15.00 or maybe even less. Yes, the cost will be absorbed by the producer who will remember that during the BSE crisis, he could not give his beef away let alone sell it and that my friends, has set the parameters for an industry standard that will surely dictate that all feed, beef and by-products will have to eventually be tested. The consumers of the world will lead that charge and tell the producers to either test or be stuck with their product. We are attempting to keep the costs of the test at a bare minimum in order that the producers will not find it too much of a financial burden. Better to spend 10 to 15 bucks per animal and garantee the sale of that animal and besides, the government may even subsidize the economy and offer incentives. Afterall, it is in the best interest of the producers and the government to ensure the stability of the market. We will do what we have to do to ensure that our test is priced in such a way that the producers are not strapped in having to pay too much to get their animals to market.

 

[rkaiser]

If you folks can remember that I do not beleive the transmission of misfolded prion or the species leap theories for a moment, I would like to talk for a moment in favour of testing for those who do.

Am I making myself clear. People like Tam seem to beleive the traditional feed transmission - danger to human health - theories and yet do not support testing. Why is that?

Costs are obviously not the major. Benefits would easily out weigh the costs????

Why Tam?

We eat more D1 and D2 cow meat in Canada than we ever have in history. Every damn steak sandwich in every damn restaurant (except the ones we supply :wink: ) is from a D1 cow. Canada has this survailance program in place that has found a few, but to find a few, many more HAVE to make it through. That is a simple fact. That is simply the math of percentages.

Do you enjoy the fact that Canadian consumers and maybe the consumers of the USA now that they have found that illusive ONE :lol: ,are becoming the ginea pigs of the world. The test projects to see if the theory of the species leap is true?

How can you be on two side of this issue without being a packer backing hypocrite. The packers are the only ones holding back testing (except for those who think the multinational packers walk on water.)

Come on Tam - testing will not hurt. Hell it will not even hurt the folks like myself who don't beleive the species jump stuff in the first place.

Had two good old cow steaks just this week --- nice and rare. Didn't see any alein like critters with "death to you human pig" placards around their neck, ready to jump into my central nervous system. But if they were there, even with only threats, I would like to see them taken off my plate before my knife and fork got going.