who cares if the jpn.markets open?

[Big Muddy rancher]

cattle men aint gonna see any of the money,and while I like to see the exports resuming,it will make little to no difference in price of cattle to the cattle man.
"It's pretty simple, really; through international trade agreements, the packers and processors are able to get much cheaper cattle and beef from other countries.
Sell it with a USDA grade stamp to U.S. consumers for huge mark-ups. "Then, they use the highest quality beef, born and raised right here in the USA, and send it to Japan for huge markups again,pocket the money as usual.........................good luck

I know i got a 25$ premium for the last load of cattle that i sent out because of the Japan being open. That is over and above the premium I will get on the grid. So overall it will problebly come out to 50-75 dollars ahead over the market average, in total premium.

Haymaker won't see any money from Japan cause he is a patron of the auction barn and won't feed cattle cause he doesn't want to be a "packer employee'

 

[Andy]

I don't know but I believe that some of the speicality type meats did.

 

[Tam]

cattle men aint gonna see any of the money,and while I like to see the exports resuming,it will make little to no difference in price of cattle to the cattle man.
"It's pretty simple, really; through international trade agreements, the packers and processors are able to get much cheaper cattle and beef from other countries.
Sell it with a USDA grade stamp to U.S. consumers for huge mark-ups. "Then, they use the highest quality beef, born and raised right here in the USA, and send it to Japan for huge markups again,pocket the money as usual.........................good luck

I know i got a 25$ premium for the last load of cattle that i sent out because of the Japan being open. That is over and above the premium I will get on the grid. So overall it will problebly come out to 50-75 dollars ahead over the market average, in total premium.

Andy, did your cattle go to Japan that you know of?

Now Econ does it really matter where Andy's cattle went as long as he was paid a premium because the Japanese market was open.? Ask yourself if the Japanese market hadn't openned would Andy have recieved the $25 premium? If your answer is no, then how can you stand on your comment that packers don't pass on the beneifits of the export trade on to the producers? The fact that Andy recieved the premium at all blows yours and Haymakers statements out of the water. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Tam- Did Big Muddy let you back on the computer? You been absent for over a month...Thought maybe you'd got picked up at the border smuggling sandwiches- or were paying pentance for all the nasty R-CALF remarks :lol:

I was going to ask Big Muddy earlier- but it was so peaceful I figured I shouldn't stir up the den.... :wink: :lol:

 

[Econ101]

I know i got a 25$ premium for the last load of cattle that i sent out because of the Japan being open. That is over and above the premium I will get on the grid. So overall it will problebly come out to 50-75 dollars ahead over the market average, in total premium.

Andy, did your cattle go to Japan that you know of?

Now Econ does it really matter where Andy's cattle went as long as he was paid a premium because the Japanese market was open.? Ask yourself if the Japanese market hadn't openned would Andy have recieved the $25 premium? If your answer is no, then how can you stand on your comment that packers don't pass on the beneifits of the export trade on to the producers? The fact that Andy recieved the premium at all blows yours and Haymakers statements out of the water. :wink:

No, Tam, it doesn't matter. When looking at any set of conclusions I always look at the underlying assumptions. The one I was questioning here was Andy's connecting the $25.00 more per head to the opening of the Japanese market. I was not accusing him of anything or calling him names for his conclusions. I was trying to see how he made his conclusions in a nice way. It is totally apparent that with the export market Canada has to have to have sell its product that the effects of reducing supply by exports will have a greater effect on Canadian producers than U.S. producers. I hope that you do develop the markets for this oversupply. It should increase prices over what the salmon run time gave. The U.S. market is very different, however.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Andy, did your cattle go to Japan that you know of?

Now Econ does it really matter where Andy's cattle went as long as he was paid a premium because the Japanese market was open.? Ask yourself if the Japanese market hadn't openned would Andy have recieved the $25 premium? If your answer is no, then how can you stand on your comment that packers don't pass on the beneifits of the export trade on to the producers? The fact that Andy recieved the premium at all blows yours and Haymakers statements out of the water. :wink:

No, Tam, it doesn't matter. When looking at any set of conclusions I always look at the underlying assumptions. The one I was questioning here was Andy's connecting the $25.00 more per head to the opening of the Japanese market. I was not accusing him of anything or calling him names for his conclusions. I was trying to see how he made his conclusions in a nice way. It is totally apparent that with the export market Canada has to have to have sell its product that the effects of reducing supply by exports will have a greater effect on Canadian producers than U.S. producers. I hope that you do develop the markets for this oversupply. It should increase prices over what the salmon run time gave. The U.S. market is very different, however.

We didn't have a oversupply , we were supplying a market that wanted our beef it was just disrupted by the border closure.

 

[Econ101]

Now Econ does it really matter where Andy's cattle went as long as he was paid a premium because the Japanese market was open.? Ask yourself if the Japanese market hadn't openned would Andy have recieved the $25 premium? If your answer is no, then how can you stand on your comment that packers don't pass on the beneifits of the export trade on to the producers? The fact that Andy recieved the premium at all blows yours and Haymakers statements out of the water. :wink:

No, Tam, it doesn't matter. When looking at any set of conclusions I always look at the underlying assumptions. The one I was questioning here was Andy's connecting the $25.00 more per head to the opening of the Japanese market. I was not accusing him of anything or calling him names for his conclusions. I was trying to see how he made his conclusions in a nice way. It is totally apparent that with the export market Canada has to have to have sell its product that the effects of reducing supply by exports will have a greater effect on Canadian producers than U.S. producers. I hope that you do develop the markets for this oversupply. It should increase prices over what the salmon run time gave. The U.S. market is very different, however.

We didn't have a oversupply , we were supplying a market that wanted our beef it was just disrupted by the border closure.

You sure weren't eating it all. I did my part in per capita consumption.

To the extent that your supply was used as captive supply, you sure lost a lot of political support in the U.S. to take your production over your domestic consumption. Why not try to work on that problem so it doesn't happen again? When I see a problem, I usually try to solve it.

 

[Bill]

No, Tam, it doesn't matter. When looking at any set of conclusions I always look at the underlying assumptions. The one I was questioning here was Andy's connecting the $25.00 more per head to the opening of the Japanese market. I was not accusing him of anything or calling him names for his conclusions. I was trying to see how he made his conclusions in a nice way. It is totally apparent that with the export market Canada has to have to have sell its product that the effects of reducing supply by exports will have a greater effect on Canadian producers than U.S. producers. I hope that you do develop the markets for this oversupply. It should increase prices over what the salmon run time gave. The U.S. market is very different, however.

We didn't have a oversupply , we were supplying a market that wanted our beef it was just disrupted by the border closure.

You sure weren't eating it all. I did my part in per capita consumption.

To the extent that your supply was used as captive supply, you sure lost a lot of political support in the U.S. to take your production over your domestic consumption. Why not try to work on that problem so it doesn't happen again? When I see a problem, I usually try to solve it.

Dare I ask? :roll: Political support?

 

[Econ101]

We didn't have a oversupply , we were supplying a market that wanted our beef it was just disrupted by the border closure.

You sure weren't eating it all. I did my part in per capita consumption.

To the extent that your supply was used as captive supply, you sure lost a lot of political support in the U.S. to take your production over your domestic consumption. Why not try to work on that problem so it doesn't happen again? When I see a problem, I usually try to solve it.

Dare I ask? :roll: Political support?

We still have elections down here. Do you up there?

When it comes down to it, the politicians will do what they are pushed to do. Usually the little webs that are woven are cleared out after they become too apparent.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

No, Tam, it doesn't matter. When looking at any set of conclusions I always look at the underlying assumptions. The one I was questioning here was Andy's connecting the $25.00 more per head to the opening of the Japanese market. I was not accusing him of anything or calling him names for his conclusions. I was trying to see how he made his conclusions in a nice way. It is totally apparent that with the export market Canada has to have to have sell its product that the effects of reducing supply by exports will have a greater effect on Canadian producers than U.S. producers. I hope that you do develop the markets for this oversupply. It should increase prices over what the salmon run time gave. The U.S. market is very different, however.

We didn't have a oversupply , we were supplying a market that wanted our beef it was just disrupted by the border closure.

You sure weren't eating it all. I did my part in per capita consumption.

To the extent that your supply was used as captive supply, you sure lost a lot of political support in the U.S. to take your production over your domestic consumption. Why not try to work on that problem so it doesn't happen again? When I see a problem, I usually try to solve it.

Excuse me but didn't America get it's start EXPORTING? Everything ffrom Beaver pelts to ships mast then grain ect. Well Canada is a exporting nation just like the US was until it's belly out grew it's production. :cowboy: :cowboy:

 

[Econ101]

BMR, if you are losing the point that Canadian beef is being used to help manipulate the U.S. market at times, you will find yourself in the same situation as the BSE mess put you in recently. Canada production controlled by Tyson and Cargill is what the whole BSE deal was about. If you don't understand that then you don't understand the beef industry issues and you sure won't be able to stop the next train wreck.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

BMR, if you are losing the point that Canadian beef is being used to help manipulate the U.S. market at times, you will find yourself in the same situation as the BSE mess put you in recently. Canada production controlled by Tyson and Cargill is what the whole BSE deal was about. If you don't understand that then you don't understand the beef industry issues and you sure won't be able to stop the next train wreck.

Econ your the economist so please do me a favor and post the numbers of cattle on feed in Canada and the US and tell us how many are owned by Tyson and Cargill and what percentage that the Canadian Captive supply is compared to the total market. You could end this debate if you show credible figure with their scources. This should be a easy task for some one with your abilities. Thankyou

 

[Econ101]

BMR, if you are losing the point that Canadian beef is being used to help manipulate the U.S. market at times, you will find yourself in the same situation as the BSE mess put you in recently. Canada production controlled by Tyson and Cargill is what the whole BSE deal was about. If you don't understand that then you don't understand the beef industry issues and you sure won't be able to stop the next train wreck.

Econ your the economist so please do me a favor and post the numbers of cattle on feed in Canada and the US and tell us how many are owned by Tyson and Cargill and what percentage that the Canadian Captive supply is compared to the total market. You could end this debate if you show credible figure with their scources. This should be a easy task for some one with your abilities. Thankyou

I will be glad to, but first you must do something for me. Show me how a real Canadian cattle industry insider leads the Canadian industry out of the mess it is in. Don't leave it up to rkaiser.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

BMR, if you are losing the point that Canadian beef is being used to help manipulate the U.S. market at times, you will find yourself in the same situation as the BSE mess put you in recently. Canada production controlled by Tyson and Cargill is what the whole BSE deal was about. If you don't understand that then you don't understand the beef industry issues and you sure won't be able to stop the next train wreck.

Econ your the economist so please do me a favor and post the numbers of cattle on feed in Canada and the US and tell us how many are owned by Tyson and Cargill and what percentage that the Canadian Captive supply is compared to the total market. You could end this debate if you show credible figure with their scources. This should be a easy task for some one with your abilities. Thankyou

I will be glad to, but first you must do something for me. Show me how a real Canadian cattle industry insider leads the Canadian industry out of the mess it is in. Don't leave it up to rkaiser.

First of all I wanted you to show us that we are in a "MESS"

Secondly ask Randy how the leading is going. How is the beef moving and are they ready to take on more supply.

 

[Econ101]

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

OR THEY CAN BE LIKE ECON101 AND JUST REPEAT THEMSELVES :!: :cowboy:

 

[Jason]

Those who can, do, and those who can't, pretend to teach.

 

[Tam]

Yes Oldtimer I was away from the forum for a month and as I come back I see nothing has changed. You are still blinded by the M'COOL flag you carry, Haymaker is still having problems with his mulituple personallities, Econ 101 thinks he knows more about the beef industry than he can prove with facts. Not to forget a few others that still can't handle the truth. I took a break from ranchers so I could enjoy my Christmas and work on our daughters wedding plans. I still have alot of things to do for the wedding but thought I would take some time to see what you have been trying to get away with in my absences.

ECON101

It is totally apparent that with the export market Canada has to have to have sell its product that the effects of reducing supply by exports will have a greater effect on Canadian producers than U.S. producers. I hope that you do develop the markets for this oversupply.

Econ think about this for a mintue.
USA in 2004 exported $61,383,448,000. worth of total Ag products. AND you are telling us that the Canadian beef industry should only product enough to meet our needs? :roll: They exported over 61 billion dollars worth of Ag Products. What would happen if the US export markets closed to a few of you oversupplied commodities ECON?
The USA also imported $53,976,863,000 worth of Ag. products, tells us Econ if the imports closed to these commodities just what would you be paying for the limited supplies in the US? You may not have noticed but this is a World market and if you need something chances are there is a country that has an extra supply of it and is willing to deal for something they need. Canada produces of great tasting beef and the US has fruits and vegs. that because of our colder climate we can't supply enough of for domestic needs, so we deal. That is the way you get what you need and we get what we need and it worked until a few ex-lawyers turned ranchers tried to destroy our industry. Maybe the Canadians should eat our own beef and let you deal with the high price tags on the beef in the market place. But dont worry you can become a vegetarians so you can consume all the fruits and vegs. that you sell us. Maybe you could use ethanol in your vehicles to use up some of the $61 billion worth of the Ag Products you export so we don't have to send you so much of our over supply of fuel. I hear straw bales make good building material then you wouldn't need our oversupply of lumber. And Econ guess where we sell our over supply of electrial power to. Maybe you should do some research into how you can turn some of your oversupplied Ag products into electrial power, instead of exporting them so you have the money to pay for the things you NEED. I can see alot of retraining going on in the US teaching dock workers that loaded and unloaded ships, trucks and planes to turn over supplied Ag. products into something you can use.

 

[Econ101]

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

OR THEY CAN BE LIKE ECON101 AND JUST REPEAT THEMSELVES :!: :cowboy:

When history is hidden, the same frauds can be repeated. Go see my post on poultry, BMR.

You were the one repeating the question.

 

[Econ101]

Yes Oldtimer I was away from the forum for a month and as I come back I see nothing has changed. You are still blinded by the M'COOL flag you carry, Haymaker is still having problems with his mulituple personallities, Econ 101 thinks he knows more about the beef industry than he can prove with facts. Not to forget a few others that still can't handle the truth. I took a break from ranchers so I could enjoy my Christmas and work on our daughters wedding plans. I still have alot of things to do for the wedding but thought I would take some time to see what you have been trying to get away with in my absences.

ECON101

It is totally apparent that with the export market Canada has to have to have sell its product that the effects of reducing supply by exports will have a greater effect on Canadian producers than U.S. producers. I hope that you do develop the markets for this oversupply.

Econ think about this for a mintue.
USA in 2004 exported $61,383,448,000. worth of total Ag products. AND you are telling us that the Canadian beef industry should only product enough to meet our needs? :roll: They exported over 61 billion dollars worth of Ag Products. What would happen if the US export markets closed to a few of you oversupplied commodities ECON?
The USA also imported $53,976,863,000 worth of Ag. products, tells us Econ if the imports closed to these commodities just what would you be paying for the limited supplies in the US? You may not have noticed but this is a World market and if you need something chances are there is a country that has an extra supply of it and is willing to deal for something they need. Canada produces of great tasting beef and the US has fruits and vegs. that because of our colder climate we can't supply enough of for domestic needs, so we deal. That is the way you get what you need and we get what we need and it worked until a few ex-lawyers turned ranchers tried to destroy our industry. Maybe the Canadians should eat our own beef and let you deal with the high price tags on the beef in the market place. But dont worry you can become a vegetarians so you can consume all the fruits and vegs. that you sell us. Maybe you could use ethanol in your vehicles to use up some of the $61 billion worth of the Ag Products you export so we don't have to send you so much of our over supply of fuel. I hear straw bales make good building material then you wouldn't need our oversupply of lumber. And Econ guess where we sell our over supply of electrial power to. Maybe you should do some research into how you can turn some of your oversupplied Ag products into electrial power, instead of exporting them so you have the money to pay for the things you NEED. I can see alot of retraining going on in the US teaching dock workers that loaded and unloaded ships, trucks and planes to turn over supplied Ag. products into something you can use.

Hey, Tam, I am not saying that trade is bad. I am pointing out the risks and strategies to meet these risks. Some of you Canadians have welcomed the strategy of having U.S. corporate masters to secure your market in the U.S. I guess it worked somewhat in the short run. Some of you Canadians seem to think brown nosing is the only way to survival. I question the freedom you lose, the Canadian taxpayer money used to do this, and the enemies you made in the U.S. by being brown nosers to the same people who are distorting our markets. There has to be a better way.

Can we start working on the solutions instead of justifying the past?