who cares if the jpn.markets open?

[Jason]

I just point out where you guys ask for better prices for producers. To achieve it in a free market economy would require either gov't legislation, or such a loss of producers to make the product scarce.

I say let the markets choose who lives and dies and you guys cry that is horrible. The other option is legislate prices and you say that isn't your choice either.

There are only 2 choices. If ag prices keep declining and costs keep rising there is a point where no one can keep producing. To absorb the costs outfits get bigger to try to capture efficiencies.

Some choose to blame Tyson and phony market power plays. Reality is a better choice because if you see what is coming you can take measures to cope and work with it.

Legislation to support ag or to limit corps engaging in legitimate business practices will fail. There is no proof Tyson/Cargill or other multinational corps have undue influence. They do exert some influence as does every consumer that buys beef. What is their incentive to break producers? They need cattle to sell beef.

At some point it is feasible to see that raising cattle will not be profitable no matter how efficient a producer is. At that point the remaining producers will have a choice. Go broke or change. That choice is facing many producers now. Consumers will face a choice at that point as well. Pay a higher price for beef or eat something else. We won't be able to force them to do one thing or the other.

Working to provide a more consistant product now that consumers will pay more for is the key to making producers more profitable. Whining about costs rising won't.

 

[Tam]

It is about time the "free" market is unchained of the binds of corporatism and market power.

Free market :wink: How can you honestly have a free market when someone is always asking the government to regulate how and to whom people sell their product and how and from whom they buy their product? Free means to act without restrictions. Don't these acts and laws you keep bringing up put restrictions on the market and how it is run? Everytime some group asks their lawyers and Senators to step in on their behalf we have less of a FREE MARKET. And why do they do this, it is because they don't want to compete in a FREE MARKET.

 

[Sandhusker]

It is about time the "free" market is unchained of the binds of corporatism and market power.

Free market :wink: How can you honestly have a free market when someone is always asking the government to regulate how and to whom people sell their product and how and from whom they buy their product? Free means to act without restrictions. Don't these acts and laws you keep bringing up put restrictions on the market and how it is run? Everytime some group asks their lawyers and Senators to step in on their behalf we have less of a FREE MARKET. And why do they do this, it is because they don't want to compete in a FREE MARKET.

The New York Stock Exchange is regarded as one of the fairest and most efficient markets in the world. Tam, I suggest you look at rules, regulations, and yes, restrictions that are in place on the NYSE. The rules are MUCH tighter there, and everybody concerned is better off for it.

 

[Econ101]

I just point out where you guys ask for better prices for producers. To achieve it in a free market economy would require either gov't legislation, or such a loss of producers to make the product scarce.

I say let the markets choose who lives and dies and you guys cry that is horrible. The other option is legislate prices and you say that isn't your choice either.

There are only 2 choices. If ag prices keep declining and costs keep rising there is a point where no one can keep producing. To absorb the costs outfits get bigger to try to capture efficiencies.

Some choose to blame Tyson and phony market power plays. Reality is a better choice because if you see what is coming you can take measures to cope and work with it.

Legislation to support ag or to limit corps engaging in legitimate business practices will fail. There is no proof Tyson/Cargill or other multinational corps have undue influence. They do exert some influence as does every consumer that buys beef. What is their incentive to break producers? They need cattle to sell beef.

At some point it is feasible to see that raising cattle will not be profitable no matter how efficient a producer is. At that point the remaining producers will have a choice. Go broke or change. That choice is facing many producers now. Consumers will face a choice at that point as well. Pay a higher price for beef or eat something else. We won't be able to force them to do one thing or the other.

Working to provide a more consistant product now that consumers will pay more for is the key to making producers more profitable. Whining about costs rising won't.

Jason, you call for "free" markets yet you do not know the rules that actually make them free.

I am calling for an enforcement of the rules. Nothing else. You go into fairy land every time you post on the subject. It is in the corporate interest for them to have people like you call for their rights while they rape the market with their market power and breaking of the rules. Their rights are not the same as yours because they have market power. The rules, like laws, are meant to protect the rights of the little guys. The big guys don't need protection as the world around you attests.

How would you like it if the electric company made you pay as high a price for your electricity as they could? Their profits may make them look "efficient" under your definition of free markets, but it would sure capture all of your "efficiency." The problem is that you have such little understanding and unwillingness to learn about the rules and why they are there that you have become a hawker.

I really don't mind you posting on the subject because you show clearly the trap that is set for you by the big boys. I just wish sometimes you would not call others into the same trap. I guess you like company.

 

[mwj]

Tam, another way for you to look at this problem and fix it is for you to make the price of your competition go up.

Econ it looks to me that if you drive up the price of all animal protien you would see the market for vegtable protien go up!!!!!!!! Look at the protien sources in Asia and you find animal protien is a treet not a staple :shock: Sometimes the customer has a nasty way of showing us that we are not the only game in town.

Econ do you have an answer?

 

[Econ101]

I don't know what planet some of these ideas came from but there isn't anyone going to trade in my steak for some tofu look alike. The fact is that soy is cheaper than beef. When I hear talk like this or see too much of my sister in law I remember the movie Soilent Green (sp?). When I eat a piece of meat I want to know that it came from a good beef that was grown right.

When I eat a soy burger or vegie burger at my sister in law's I look for something else in her refrigerator. She has learned to keep something in there. If you are feeding your kids soy burgers all the time, they will eat it when they get bigger. Let them have a piece of your steak and when they get bigger they will eat that.

I am not scared of competition from soy. I am scared of the lies and misconceptions, and phony science that their promoters hawk.

As for the asian diet, those people can take a little piece of meat and make it taste like it was the best little piece of meat you ever had. I haven't had the same experience with soy. I don't mind that at all the talk.

 

[mwj]

Econ the point that I was making is that PRICE is top priority for a lot of people. You point out poultry and pork are used to manipulate the PRICE of cattle. You told tam we should find a way to force the PRICE of cattle up against pork and chicken. My point is there are more than 3 protien sources when PRICE becomes a factor. If all consumers were like you and me there would not be a problem but when it reaches a certain point PRICE trumps taste.

 

[Sandhusker]

Tam, "Econ it looks to me that if you drive up the price of all animal protien you would see the market for vegtable protien go up!!!!!!!! Look at the protien sources in Asia and you find animal protien is a treet not a staple Sometimes the customer has a nasty way of showing us that we are not the only game in town."

The reasons animal protein is more of a treat in Asia is largly because of geographic reasons driving the culture. Japan is mountainous and China's best agricultural areas are choked with people - not really an area conducive to raising cattle. Their diets consist of much less protein that that of US citizens, and fishing is a more cost effective way to provide the protein they need.

Stir fry was created for the same reason - geography and population. There was a need for cooking quickly as the ingredients used to make fire were in short supply because of population and terrain. They learned that if you cut the food into small pieces and used a little oil, you could cook much faster and use less wood.

 

[Anonymous]

Conman: "I am calling for an enforcement of the rules. Nothing else. You go into fairy land every time you post on the subject. It is in the corporate interest for them to have people like you call for their rights while they rape the market with their market power and breaking of the rules. Their rights are not the same as yours because they have market power. The rules, like laws, are meant to protect the rights of the little guys. The big guys don't need protection as the world around you attests."

Where's your proof of this raping and breaking of the rules?

Where is it? What is it? Anyone can make an allegation, where's your proof?

Watch this..............



~SH~

 

[Econ101]

Conman: "I am calling for an enforcement of the rules. Nothing else. You go into fairy land every time you post on the subject. It is in the corporate interest for them to have people like you call for their rights while they rape the market with their market power and breaking of the rules. Their rights are not the same as yours because they have market power. The rules, like laws, are meant to protect the rights of the little guys. The big guys don't need protection as the world around you attests."

Where's your proof of this raping and breaking of the rules?

Where is it? What is it? Anyone can make an allegation, where's your proof?

Watch this..............



~SH~

SH, why do you ask? You know the answer. Good to see you again. Things were getting lonely around here.