Who pays for wolf depradation if delisted?

[CattleQueen]

I'd like to reply to the original few messages on this line - who pays for wolf control and the depredation they cause? Happy - I still think you are on the wrong forum. You've got a big stick, and you are just here to stir the sh--. You might have read some about wolf introduction, but you know nothing about the damage/consequences they cause. I've seen cattle and horses, deer, moose and elk ripped apart by wolves. I've also seen them severely injure an cow, and leave her in her own blood. I heard her bawl and moan in pain and fear, as she was dying.

Happy, you say "your best educated guess" is the feds and the states should cost share wolf management, along with an increase in hunting licenses for the sportsmen and the livestock industry should kick in. Please allow me to help you advance your education.
1. Wyoming, Idaho and Montana did not want wolves. We fought wolf introduction. The bleeding-heart, land-hungry liberals and the feds wanted wolves, and they broke the ESA to get them here.
2. The livestock industry (particularly the ranchers) are already paying the price. We pay the price when wolves kill and injur our livestock. We pay the price when we don't locate the carcass right away in our large mountain pastures, and the summer heat and scavengers destroy the evidence. We pay the price when we do find the carcass in time, and the wildlife official comes out and says it wasn't a wolf - or he just isn't sure. (Farson, WY summer 2005 - 30 sheep were killed in one pasture in one night by wolves, and the wildlife official confirmed 1 as a wolf kill, 14 were probable, and he had no idea what happened to the rest!) We pay the price when wolves run our cattle and keep them so stirred up, they won't eat. They lose weight and sometimes lose their calves. We pay the price when wolves run our cattle through fences that take time and money to repair. We pay the price when we go to sell cattle, and they are thin from running from the wolves. (That paycheck is how we feed our families - and feed our cattle. Please don't think we consider our cattle to be money making machines. Those cows are our employees. The better we treat them, the better they produce. We provide them with the best grass, hay and clean water possible. When they are sick or hurt, we doctor them. When a heifer has trouble calving, we help her out. The welfare of those cows is my top priority.) We ranchers pay the price when wolves kill our stock dogs in our very own yard. We pay the price when we have to watch our children constantly in our yard - because we also have had wolves in our yard.
3. The sportsmen are already paying the price. They pay the price when they go to hunt in places they've hunted all their lives, and the elk are standing in little bunches in the trees, milling around for fear of predators. They already pay the price when they harvest an elk to feed their families, and the animal is thin from running and being chased. They pay the price when there is NO wildlife left (elk now have a 20% chance of having their calves live through the wolves and grizzlies). For many sportsmen, hunting helps them feed their families.
4. According to Margot Zalen in the US Attorney's Office (she was a huge proponent of wolf introduction) the federal government CAN NOT AFFORD to manage wolves any longer - that is why they want to turn them over to the states. What that means is they want the states to foot the bill - but not have any authority to actually manage them. If the federal government can't afford to manage wolves - how the heck can Wyoming, Montana and Idaho afford it?

Happy - bring your friends and come on out to the ranch. I'd be happy to put you up for a few days and give you a direct look at the consequences of wolf introduction in the west - and at whose footing the bill.

 

[cowboyup]

Cattle Queen, you are right on the money with what you posted. I have had wolves kill a cow and covered her and did everything by the book only to have the wolf specialists come in and tell me "We're here to help you and we want to prove it is a wolf kill" and then do everything they could to come up with a probable so there is no compensation. We're paying the price for all the damn bunny huggers and I'm sure the Canadiens are still laughing at us.

 

[Happy go lucky]

Cattlequeen you could no be more off on me and who I am than what you posted! I know about depredation and I know about wolves. You and many others didn't want wolves great and I applaud your efforts, the problem is the way the ESA is written wolves had to be given a chance to be reintroduced back into the wilds. The law not the people made this mess.

So now where left with the aftermath of the wolves being the top of the wild food chain and what to do about it correct? The states will get control and if your state would have adopted different verbage than that of a coyote "for the time being" you would be controlling wolves as we speak. Trappers in your state and others that have wolves will be comming to a ranch near you soon and lavish the opportunity to trap them,snare them, call them up! Between your ADC program and private hunters/trappers you will get some help and it shouldn't be that costly to you or your tax payers. The reason USFWS wants to let control go back to the states is they don't want to have to deal with them plain and simple. They don't want to verify each kill and spend time.

I know what predators can do and I also know many states don't compensate for predatory losses, nothing for coyotes killing sheep, MT Lions and I am betting wolves will follow that program once back into state control as well. The feds want to relieve themselves of the burden and also want to satisfy those that pushed for wolf reintroduction. Also rememebr their has been advancing wolf packs in Minniesota for years and years, now they are to the same point open a season and have control measures to better manage wolves.

Wolves due to their social and packing structure would be a species that has and could be dealt a swift blow with time and money, but to be "real" do you think after the time and money put into this program that the USFWS and other groups will allow the wolf to be taken back to pre 80's population?

I know your concerns and they are justified and livestock loss has been around since the beginning of animal husbandtry and will continue be it coyotes,foxes,Mt Lions,wolves,grizzlys, eagles etc. The best approach is to manage them at a level where livestock loss can be minimized and trappers and hunters will gladly help that I can gurantee.

I don't think or see a situation where the USFWS totally abandons this situation they will kick in dollars to their APHIS run ADC program and I hope through a varity of tools and methods that your losses remain low, time will tell but to state an all out war on the wolf factualy would not hold up to public opinion. Too many see the wolf as a majestic animal and that the world is a better place and more rounded with them than without them. Not my feelings at all just public perception, due to many things how many wolf items can one find in stores? Compair that to coyotes? How many documentrys done on wolves and photos and books? Some how the wolf has been made out to be this great American icon of nature and many don't see nor really care about the damage they do cause. I have been on the ranches believe me. I also look forward to the day I can pursue wolves and have their hides hanging on my walls and sell that fur for profit and to help out ranchers and solve conflicts. Good Day.