WHO REALLY WON THE BORDER WAR?

[Tam]

Hay Maker, you miss the point with your question on who won. This war was fought on Canadian soil so there was no winning for the Canadians.
SURVIVAL is all the Canadians ever wanted, well they may have victory in time to survive. Unfortunately many banks will use better prices as an opportunity to close out nonperforming accounts.

I don't usually criticize RCALF very much because I think most members are hard working producers that are misled or misunderstand, but I'll never understand standing on someone's throat that is just trying to provide for their family.

In every organization there a few vocal radicals. R-CALF has a few that have a vendetta against Canada, but I can assure that the vast majority of R-CALF members do not. R-CALF's actions concerning the border are NOT aimed at the Canadian producers, but rather the $%^# dang USDA and *^&^ing packer partnership that is threatening US producers.

If you look at who had the boot on Canadian's throats, you'll notice the initials AMI. Who made a killing paying next to nothing for Canadian fats and while shipping the beef South for record prices? Randy K has asked many times how the price of 70 cents was set and I don't think his question has ever been aswered. R-CALF didn't set that price.

Can you please explain to us Sandhusker how we are to believe you when you say

R-CALF's actions concerning the border are NOT aimed at the Canadian producers,

When R-CALF stood hand in hand with anti beef groups and told everyone that would listen that Canadian beef was tainted and unsafe while they claimed the US beef was the safest in the World. That Canada was still processing downers and the US doesn't. That Canada wasn't testing nearly enough cattle when we were testing a high percentage than the US was, of a higher risk cattle. That the Canadian feed ban is being violated because some birds got into some feed samples the CFIA was checking. That Canadian standards aren't as high as the US's when we all know we have stricter rules as we don't feed chicken litter to our cattle. I am personally sick of listening to R-CALF claim their fight isn't with the Canadian producers then they turn around and make up another lie about our system. How does lieing about and trying to destroy the Canadian beef industry help you in your fight with the USDA?

 

[HAY MAKER]

Hay Maker, you miss the point with your question on who won. This war was fought on Canadian soil so there was no winning for the Canadians.
SURVIVAL is all the Canadians ever wanted, well they may have victory in time to survive. Unfortunately many banks will use better prices as an opportunity to close out nonperforming accounts.

I don't usually criticize RCALF very much because I think most members are hard working producers that are misled or misunderstand, but I'll never understand standing on someone's throat that is just trying to provide for their family.

In every organization there a few vocal radicals. R-CALF has a few that have a vendetta against Canada, but I can assure that the vast majority of R-CALF members do not. R-CALF's actions concerning the border are NOT aimed at the Canadian producers, but rather the $%^# dang USDA and *^&^ing packer partnership that is threatening US producers.

If you look at who had the boot on Canadian's throats, you'll notice the initials AMI. Who made a killing paying next to nothing for Canadian fats and while shipping the beef South for record prices? Randy K has asked many times how the price of 70 cents was set and I don't think his question has ever been aswered. R-CALF didn't set that price.

Can you please explain to us Sandhusker how we are to believe you when you say

R-CALF's actions concerning the border are NOT aimed at the Canadian producers,

When R-CALF stood hand in hand with anti beef groups and told everyone that would listen that Canadian beef was tainted and unsafe while they claimed the US beef was the safest in the World. That Canada was still processing downers and the US doesn't. That Canada wasn't testing nearly enough cattle when we were testing a high percentage than the US was, of a higher risk cattle. That the Canadian feed ban is being violated because some birds got into some feed samples the CFIA was checking. That Canadian standards aren't as high as the US's when we all know we have stricter rules as we don't feed chicken litter to our cattle. I am personally sick of listening to R-CALF claim their fight isn't with the Canadian producers then they turn around and make up another lie about our system. How does lieing about and trying to destroy the Canadian beef industry help you in your fight with the USDA?

Miss Tam,you have a cheap way of twisting facts and sugar coating lies to fit your agenda,why dont you quit instigating this border issue and allow people to get along.R CALF has never had a vendetta against the canadians that you seem to have against americans,I dont believe some one with your limited mental capacity will ever accept the fact R CALF's fight is not with all the canadian ranchers.The ones that willingly partner themselves with packers to supply and promote captive supplies to manipulate markets are a differnt story,which group you fit in says it all.............................good luck PS instead of trying to provoke disharmony with your "PC" today maybe you oughta get your big butt to cleaning house?do something constructive for a change :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Haymaker: "The ones that willing partner themselves with packers to supply and promote captive supplies to manipulate markets are a differnt story..."

That would include the plaintiffs in Pickett vs. ibp since they willingly entered into captive supply arrangements.

You know Hayseed, "captive supplies", that word you always babble about but can' t define.



~SH~

 

[HAY MAKER]

Haymaker: "The ones that willing partner themselves with packers to supply and promote captive supplies to manipulate markets are a differnt story..."

That would include the plaintiffs in Pickett vs. ibp since they willingly entered into captive supply arrangements.

You know Hayseed, "captive supplies", that word you always babble about but can' t define.



~SH~

~SH~you ole skunk,am I gonna have to teach you the definition of "willingly" before we move on to "Captive supplies" ?.........good luck

 

[Anonymous]

Sandman: "In every organization there a few vocal radicals. R-CALF has a few that have a vendetta against Canada, but I can assure that the vast majority of R-CALF members do not. R-CALF's actions concerning the border are NOT aimed at the Canadian producers, but rather the $%^# dang USDA and *^&^ing packer partnership that is threatening US producers."

Sandman: "If you look at who had the boot on Canadian's throats, you'll notice the initials AMI. Who made a killing paying next to nothing for Canadian fats and while shipping the beef South for record prices?"

Hahaha!

That has got to be the slickest "red herring" for R-CULT's calling Canadian beef "high risk" in a court of law and in the Washington Post, I have ever read.

I have heard prominent R-CULT leaders call Canadian beef "contaminated" BUT DON'T TAKE THAT PERSONAL, IT'S NOT AGAINST YOU, IT'S AGAINST THE AMI AND USDA.

Yeh, you bet!

R-CULT's entire "misguided" effort to close the Canadian border was based on stopping Canadian imports by lying about the safety of their beef and now you want to divert this to an AMI blame and/or USDA blame?

WHAT A CROCK!

AMI filed suit against the USDA to allow the importation of Canadian cull cows. That fact proves your "conscience cleansing" dog won't hunt.

This is nothing more than your deceptive slick way of cleansing your conscience for your blind defense of R-CULT stabbing Canadian producers in the back by lying about the safety of their beef and live cattle to stop Canadian live cattle imports.

You truly are one pathetic individual Sandman!

As if anyone would fall for this line of crap!



~SH~

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Haymaker you must be a "Johnny come lately" to R-CALF as they were created to stop Canadian imports. Remember the anti dumping case that they lost. Gee they have quite the track record of losing.

 

[HAY MAKER]

Haymaker you must be a "Johnny come lately" to R-CALF as they were created to stop Canadian imports. Remember the anti dumping case that they lost. Gee they have quite the track record of losing.

You probably feel like R Calf was created to stop the canadian imports,I believe they have more projects than the canadian border,and in my humble opinion,much more important. I am hopefull that the border dispute is done,lots of wasted money for what?I dont think the border being closed added much if any to cattle prices,and if some one can explain to me how it did I will stand corrected.The only good/bad thing that has beeen proven without a doubt,is the packer is not the canadian cattle mans friend,they have positioned themselves to control your markets,and the sooner you get some packer laws the better the cattle man will be.....................good luck

 

[Anonymous]

Hayseed: "~SH~you ole skunk,am I gonna have to teach you the definition of "willingly" before we move on to "Captive supplies" ?.........good luck"

Hayseed, if feeders enter into forward contracts with packers, is that not "willingly" entering into a forward contract?

Why is it ok for producers to enter into forward contracts with feeders but it's not ok for feeders to enter into forward contracts with packers?

Explain that Hayseed!


~SH~

 

[Anonymous]

Haymaker you must be a "Johnny come lately" to R-CALF as they were created to stop Canadian imports. Remember the anti dumping case that they lost. Gee they have quite the track record of losing.

That brings up an interesting situation for the future- Actually R-CALF won the anti-dumping ruling but the one world government tribunal said they didn't prove that it had that major an effect on US prices...Now with the history of the border being closed bringing record prices, it could be an avenue to pursue again.......Especially if prices go into the dumps again in the next couple of years with the border open......

 

[Anonymous]

Go for it OT!

It might be a good investment to spend more producer dollars on educating yourself about trade through the court systems.

Perhaps you will finally learn the true impact of Canadian imports on our cattle markets.

R-CULT would get "factually buried" in court again.



~SH~

 

[HAY MAKER]

Haymaker you must be a "Johnny come lately" to R-CALF as they were created to stop Canadian imports. Remember the anti dumping case that they lost. Gee they have quite the track record of losing.

That brings up an interesting situation for the future- Actually R-CALF won the anti-dumping ruling but the one world government tribunal said they didn't prove that it had that major an effect on US prices...Now with the history of the border being closed bringing record prices, it could be an avenue to pursue again.......Especially if prices go into the dumps again in the next couple of years with the border open......

Good point Old Timer,and one every body will be watching intently,its gonna be very interesting to see where the markets go once live cattle shipments get up to speed,and if there is a negative impact then you will see what you have been seeing in the last year,dramatic increases in R CALF member ship.................good luck

 

[Anonymous]

Hayseed,

If feeders enter into forward contracts with packers, is that not a "willing" arrangement?



~SH~

 

[HAY MAKER]

Hayseed,

If feeders enter into forward contracts with packers, is that not a "willing" arrangement?



~SH~

Every feeder I have talked to tells me the same story,its anything but "WILLING'' its simply the best option availible to them when you have a monopoly manipulating your options,there is only two pertinent issuses to be added to the "captive reform supply act" #1 trade in the daylite,no more secret deals where I as a packer own these cattle and I hire you to sell em to me.#2firm the base..........good luck PS I have a neighbor that is a past president of the TX cattle feeders assc.,tried my best to get him on here but like the rest of the ole coots around here too busy.

 

[Anonymous]

Hayseed: "Every feeder I have talked to tells me the same story,its anything but "WILLING'' its simply the best option availible to them when you have a monopoly manipulating your options,...."

Monopoly is defined as exclusive control over the use, sale, or distribution of of a commodity or service by one person or group of persons.

Now Hayseed, you just got done telling us that 3 companies control 80% of the industry which directly contradicts your "monopoly" theory.

Hayseed: "..there is only two pertinent issuses to be added to the "captive reform supply act" #1 trade in the daylite,no more secret deals where I as a packer own these cattle and I hire you to sell em to me."

You already have Mandatory Price Reporting so how much more daylight do you need?

This is "liberalism" pure and simple. All cattle are not of equal quality therefore should not receive the same price. Besides, it's none of your damn business who I sell my fat cattle to or what I get paid for them.

This is just one more step towards the LMA's goal of "socialized cattle marketing" rather than value based marketing.

This fight will be the bloodiest fight R-CULT/LMA/OCM has fought yet. There is no way in hell I will let these "socialists" tell me what my cattle marketing options will be and allow the federal government to pick and chose who can and who cannot buy my feeder calves.

Hayseed: "#2firm the base..........good luck"

You don't even know what the heck you are talking about.

Most captive supply arrangements have a firm base price. It's the grids and formulas that use the weekly weighted average week prior base price but feeders also have the cash option. Nobody is forcing them to sell on a grid. Grid and formula cattle are not captive supply arrangements.

You've just stepped in a pile of Haymaker again.


~SH~

 

[Bill]

Haymaker atr 8:15

I am hopefull that the border dispute is done,lots of wasted money for what?I dont think the border being closed added much if any to cattle prices,and if some one can explain to me how it did I will stand corrected.The only good/bad thing that has beeen proven without a doubt,is the packer is not the canadian cattle mans friend,they have positioned themselves to control your markets,and the sooner you get some packer laws the better the cattle man will be.....................good luck

Haymaker at 9:24

Good point Old Timer,and one every body will be watching intently,its gonna be very interesting to see where the markets go once live cattle shipments get up to speed,and if there is a negative impact then you will see what you have been seeing in the last year,dramatic increases in R CALF member ship.................good luck

:lol: :lol: :lol: Must get kind of tiring jumping from one bandwagon to the next.

 

[Tam]

In every organization there a few vocal radicals. R-CALF has a few that have a vendetta against Canada, but I can assure that the vast majority of R-CALF members do not. R-CALF's actions concerning the border are NOT aimed at the Canadian producers, but rather the $%^# dang USDA and *^&^ing packer partnership that is threatening US producers.

If you look at who had the boot on Canadian's throats, you'll notice the initials AMI. Who made a killing paying next to nothing for Canadian fats and while shipping the beef South for record prices? Randy K has asked many times how the price of 70 cents was set and I don't think his question has ever been aswered. R-CALF didn't set that price.

Can you please explain to us Sandhusker how we are to believe you when you say

R-CALF's actions concerning the border are NOT aimed at the Canadian producers,

When R-CALF stood hand in hand with anti beef groups and told everyone that would listen that Canadian beef was tainted and unsafe while they claimed the US beef was the safest in the World. That Canada was still processing downers and the US doesn't. That Canada wasn't testing nearly enough cattle when we were testing a high percentage than the US was, of a higher risk cattle. That the Canadian feed ban is being violated because some birds got into some feed samples the CFIA was checking. That Canadian standards aren't as high as the US's when we all know we have stricter rules as we don't feed chicken litter to our cattle. I am personally sick of listening to R-CALF claim their fight isn't with the Canadian producers then they turn around and make up another lie about our system. How does lieing about and trying to destroy the Canadian beef industry help you in your fight with the USDA?

Miss Tam,you have a cheap way of twisting facts and sugar coating lies to fit your agenda,why dont you quit instigating this border issue and allow people to get along.R CALF has never had a vendetta against the canadians that you seem to have against americans,I dont believe some one with your limited mental capacity will ever accept the fact R CALF's fight is not with all the canadian ranchers.The ones that willingly partner themselves with packers to supply and promote captive supplies to manipulate markets are a differnt story,which group you fit in says it all.............................good luck PS instead of trying to provoke disharmony with your "PC" today maybe you oughta get your big butt to cleaning house?do something constructive for a change :wink:

Haymaker can you tell me how I twisted the fact that Leo said on a radio broadcast for Nebraska that "Canada still processes downers and the US doesn't" How does that have anything to do with their fight with the USDA. Tell me how I twisted Leo saying "We test annually over 150,000 more cattle than Canada tests." Which is a lie but he was trying to make the point we don't do as good of job at testing as the US does. Not only do we do a better job, we use the right test to confirm our inconclusives test results. How did I twist the fact Judge Cebull got the opinion that Canada beef is "a genuine risk of death if imported". I don't think he got that opinion from the USDA's brief. He was quoting from R-CALFs brief thoughout most of his written ruling, so I think he got that idea from R-CALF. How did I twist the fact that R-CALF stood with anti beef groups, Leo said himself that R-CALF was using these groups because they get more media attention. How did I twist the fact that Leo clained "Canada has a chronic problem with their Meat and Bone Meal (MBM) feed ban and that it is ineffective" When what he was talking about was proven to be bird feathers and rodents. The CFIA also said some of the samples had been imported from guess where? Face it Haymaker, R-CALF can claim their fight is not with the Canadian rancher all they want but their actions say otherwise. The fact is they are making up lies about our industry to keep the border closed. Those lies have no affect on the USDA/AMI fight, but they are meant to destroy consumer confidence in Canadian beef. :x

I dont believe some one with your limited mental capacity will ever accept the fact R CALF's fight is not with all the canadian ranchers.

I might say a person that has been brainwashed as bad as you will never see R-CALF for the lieing protectionist group, out to destroy any competition by any means, that they are. And Claiming they are not out to get the Canadian ranchers with their lieing shows just how brainwashed you really are. :roll:

 

[HAY MAKER]

Haymaker atr 8:15

I am hopefull that the border dispute is done,lots of wasted money for what?I dont think the border being closed added much if any to cattle prices,and if some one can explain to me how it did I will stand corrected.The only good/bad thing that has beeen proven without a doubt,is the packer is not the canadian cattle mans friend,they have positioned themselves to control your markets,and the sooner you get some packer laws the better the cattle man will be.....................good luck

Haymaker at 9:24

Good point Old Timer,and one every body will be watching intently,its gonna be very interesting to see where the markets go once live cattle shipments get up to speed,and if there is a negative impact then you will see what you have been seeing in the last year,dramatic increases in R CALF member ship.................good luck

:lol: :lol: :lol: Must get kind of tiring jumping from one




bandwagon to the next.

IM not jumping ,I want to see R CALF's membership numbers triple by this time next year!!!!!!!!!!!! I also want to see R CALF move away from this border issuse,that is a no win situation, just my opinion I realize there are folks that feel strongly and differnt about this.I would wager that you give me M COOL and the captive supply reform act, the support for the border dispute diminishes rapidly..................good luck PS I have no problem admitting IM wrong if and when cattle prices go south {pardon the pun]now that the border is open,save your comments about me jumping wagons till then,because it will be true..................good luck

 

[HAY MAKER]

Hayseed: "Every feeder I have talked to tells me the same story,its anything but "WILLING'' its simply the best option availible to them when you have a monopoly manipulating your options,...."

Monopoly is defined as exclusive control over the use, sale, or distribution of of a commodity or service by one person or group of persons.

Now Hayseed, you just got done telling us that 3 companies control 80% of the industry which directly contradicts your "monopoly" theory.

Hayseed: "..there is only two pertinent issuses to be added to the "captive reform supply act" #1 trade in the daylite,no more secret deals where I as a packer own these cattle and I hire you to sell em to me."

You already have Mandatory Price Reporting so how much more daylight do you need?

This is "liberalism" pure and simple. All cattle are not of equal quality therefore should not receive the same price. Besides, it's none of your damn business who I sell my fat cattle to or what I get paid for them.

This is just one more step towards the LMA's goal of "socialized cattle marketing" rather than value based marketing.

This fight will be the bloodiest fight R-CULT/LMA/OCM has fought yet. There is no way in hell I will let these "socialists" tell me what my cattle marketing options will be and allow the federal government to pick and chose who can and who cannot buy my feeder calves.

Hayseed: "#2firm the base..........good luck"

You don't even know what the heck you are talking about.

Most captive supply arrangements have a firm base price. It's the grids and formulas that use the weekly weighted average week prior base price but feeders also have the cash option. Nobody is forcing them to sell on a grid. Grid and formula cattle are not captive supply arrangements.

You've just stepped in a pile of Haymaker again.


~SH~

SH,you have the damndest way of acting dumb,On October 8,1996, WORC submitted to the Secretary of Agriculture a petition asking the Secretary to issue rules that: (1) prohibit packers from procuring cattle for slaughter through the use of a forward contract unless the contract contains a firm base price that can be equated to a fixed dollar amount on the day the contract is signed and the forward contract is offered or bid in an open, public manner; and (2) prohibit packers from owning and feeding cattle, unless the cattle are sold for slaughter in an open, public market. Is this hard for you to understand?Do I need to keep typing the "captive supply reform act"for you till you can comprehend?Change is inevitable SH,get used to it ,like an ole man told me once "the sun dont always shine on the same dogs ass"................good luck :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Haymaker: "SH,you have the damndest way of acting dumb,.."

Having you lecture on "dumb" is one of the most ironic things I have ever read.

Let's see who's dumb shall we?

On October 8,1996, WORC submitted to the Secretary of Agriculture a petition asking the Secretary to issue rules that: (1) prohibit packers from procuring cattle for slaughter through the use of a forward contract unless the contract contains a firm base price that can be equated to a fixed dollar amount on the day the contract is signed and the forward contract is offered or bid in an open, public manner; and (2) prohibit packers from owning and feeding cattle, unless the cattle are sold for slaughter in an open, public market.

Most forward contracts already have a set base price. This proves how stupid this argument and this law really is.

Besides, who the hell are you to tell me how to market cattle?????

Arrogant @%!^*@!&!

Formula and grid cattle that do not have a fixed base price are not captive supply cattle because they are not owned or otherwise controlled by packers for more than 14 days prior to slaughter. That shoe doesn't even fit.

Why would packers sell their own cattle for slaughter? That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

The federal government should not be involved in determining who can and who cannot own cattle. That is communism pure and simple.

This law is a bigger joke than the "M"COOL law.

Government mandate loving idiots!


~SH~

 

[HAY MAKER]

Haymaker: "SH,you have the damndest way of acting dumb,.."

Having you lecture on "dumb" is one of the most ironic things I have ever read.

Let's see who's dumb shall we?

On October 8,1996, WORC submitted to the Secretary of Agriculture a petition asking the Secretary to issue rules that: (1) prohibit packers from procuring cattle for slaughter through the use of a forward contract unless the contract contains a firm base price that can be equated to a fixed dollar amount on the day the contract is signed and the forward contract is offered or bid in an open, public manner; and (2) prohibit packers from owning and feeding cattle, unless the cattle are sold for slaughter in an open, public market.

Most forward contracts already have a set base price. This proves how stupid this argument and this law really is.

Besides, who the hell are you to tell me how to market cattle?????

Arrogant @%!^*@!&!

Formula and grid cattle that do not have a fixed base price are not captive supply cattle because they are not owned or otherwise controlled by packers for more than 14 days prior to slaughter. That shoe doesn't even fit.

Why would packers sell their own cattle for slaughter? That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

The federal government should not be involved in determining who can and who cannot own cattle. That is communism pure and simple.

This law is a bigger joke than the "M"COOL law.

Government mandate loving idiots!


~SH~

You seemed pretty comfortable on that government mandate wagon a while back,remember that thing called "check off"? :wink: ...............good luck PS Government mandate loving idiots!