• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Who?

I have used MLV in pregnant cows during the fall according to label...meaning they had had a previous dose within a year. I liked not having to vaccinate prior to breeding, but felt it may have contributed to more abortions. It seemed like about six weeks post vaccination in the fall, 2-3 cows would abort within days of each other. I never did diagnostics, but always wondered.

I have since switched back to vaccinating pre-breeding, and seem to get along good. Interesting question, I am curious what others have experienced as well.
 
I look at it similar to the fact that just because a car can go double the speed limit, doesn't mean it's perfectly safe to drive that fast.
 
WyomingRancher said:
I have used MLV in pregnant cows during the fall according to label...meaning they had had a previous dose within a year. I liked not having to vaccinate prior to breeding, but felt it may have contributed to more abortions. It seemed like about six weeks post vaccination in the fall, 2-3 cows would abort within days of each other. I never did diagnostics, but always wondered.

I have since switched back to vaccinating pre-breeding, and seem to get along good. Interesting question, I am curious what others have experienced as well.
Click to expand...

Same as you - a couple of aborted fetus several weeks post vaccination, but not verifiable as a direct result.

So I quit vaccinating cows for the past couple of years since I had too many late calvers straggling the season out.

This year I am going to vaccinate again after calving is complete since I tightened up the calving period again.

(Unless I actually quit the cows like I have been promising to for the past 5 years...) :-)
 
Ok, I have to ask. Why is MLV the only vaccine considered?

We used killed vaccine--ViraShield 5 + VL5 and it worked well.
There was so much pressure to use a killed vaccine, Mr. FH finally
submitted to it. (Not me, I held out because I don't like MLV.)
Anyway, we saw problems using it--disadvantages and no advantages--
and so did friends who made the change at the time we did. We went back to killed and so did they........and the results were
better, plus we didn't have to vaccinate the cows in the spring. I think
we gave the same killed vaccine to the calves in the fall which included
a broader spectrum than what the cows got.

I know that ALL killed vaccines are not equal. ViraShield is the best
of the lot.

Anyhow, just an alternative to think about. FWIW
 
I have to respectfully disagree with you FH regarding killed vaccines. Our neighbor, who buys calves to run over on grass, purchased four loads of steers off of the video, about five bucks back from the market (clue number 1). The cattle had only ever been on a killed program...cows/calves. Anyhow, they vaccinated with a MLV upon receiving them, and full blown mucosal disease appeared. The cattle were never really protected with the killed product, and once they were challenged with something that worked, all of their persistently infected carriers showed up, something like 7% I think. It was a monumental wreck, lots of lost money in dead or sick calves and diagnostics.

The buyer figured out who had purchased the calves in previous years, and sure enough they all had had big problems. He no longer will purchase cattle coming off of killed programs. I think this is an extreme example, but does demonstrate a wreck caused by ineffective products. I felt badly for the rancher since he felt he had been vaccinating his herd effectively.

RFD is televising a segment on this subject May 15. I think the show is called Cattlemen's Corner, or something similar to that. Personally, I don't allow killed products on the place, right along with large square bales :wink: :D :lol:.
 
I always felt we may have lost one or two to abortions every year back when we used live vaccine on pregnant cows, and I think it happened more maybe with young cows that may have missed the first shot for some reason and older cows nearing the end of their productive life, but that may be just my perception. About 10 years ago we switched our management around so all cows are done with MLV (Express Product) at least 2 weeks prior to breeding. It seems to work better for us that way and fits our management OK.
We have used killed product on bought cows that were already bred and we were unsure of their status.
Our vet recommends the MLV and I think it works better. As an example, we have done quite a bit of BVD PI testing on home raised replacement heifers without finding anything positive. The problem with a vaccine is that the only way to tell it is working is to stop using it and wait for the wreck (talk to some of my neighbours who cost cut through BSE). :shock: :lol:
 
I agree Wyoming rancher. Ive seen neighbors with wrecks using killed vaccine. My vet says I could give MLV to pregnant cows but recommends pre breeding . Im scared to try the change. Sure would make things simpler.
 
Make sure your mineral program is correct for your area. Mineral deficiencies can make vacination a waste of time and money.
 
WyomingRancher said:
I have to respectfully disagree with you FH regarding killed vaccines. Our neighbor, who buys calves to run over on grass, purchased four loads of steers off of the video, about five bucks back from the market (clue number 1). The cattle had only ever been on a killed program...cows/calves. Anyhow, they vaccinated with a MLV upon receiving them, and full blown mucosal disease appeared. The cattle were never really protected with the killed product, and once they were challenged with something that worked, all of their persistently infected carriers showed up, something like 7% I think. It was a monumental wreck, lots of lost money in dead or sick calves and diagnostics.

The buyer figured out who had purchased the calves in previous years, and sure enough they all had had big problems. He no longer will purchase cattle coming off of killed programs. I think this is an extreme example, but does demonstrate a wreck caused by ineffective products. I felt badly for the rancher since he felt he had been vaccinating his herd effectively.

RFD is televising a segment on this subject May 15. I think the show is called Cattlemen's Corner, or something similar to that. Personally, I don't allow killed products on the place, right along with large square bales :wink: :D :lol:.
Click to expand...

:shock: That is just horrible.

I wonder what killed vaccine was used in that situation? I do know that
many of the killed vaccines aren't effective.

Those of us that went to MLV in the spring, noticed a higher incidence of
open cows in the fall. I also know that when our calves went to the feedlot a big storm hit and our pen of calves was the only pen that didn't get sick.
It's all interesting.

I did a search and came across this from the U of Wyoming, which I thought was worth sharing. The subject was BVD.

"A common vaccination strategy is:


Vaccinate heifers with MLV two months before breeding

Vaccinate cows with MLV two weeks before breeding.

Possibly, boost cows when pregnant with either a killed product, or a MLV product to which they have been previously exposed

Possibly, vaccinate calves at branding in late spring. This is one time when it may be appropriate to give a killed product. There is a good chance that maternal antibody will interfere and reduce efficacy, so this needs to be repeated by

Vaccinating calves at, or better still several weeks before, branding time (5 - 7 months of age).

There is a bewildering range of vaccines for BVD. They are in fact based on a small number of virus isolates (i.e., vaccines from different companies may contain the same strain). They are either inactivated or MLV. As a general rule, MLV are better, but these should be give to cattle before they are bred. Use a vaccine that will give some protection against type 1 and type 2 genotypes. Pfizer has a vaccine line that can be given to pregnant animals, but COWS MUST HAVE BEEN VACCINATED ONCE PREVIOUSLY WITH THAT VACCINE BEFORE IT IS SAFE TO GIVE THEM THE MLV WHEN PREGNANT. Competing companies are likely to get similar products on the market (i.e., can be given to pregnant cows) over the next five years."

http://www.uwyo.edu/vetsci/undergraduates/courses/patb_4110/2009_lectures/12_bvd/html/class_notes.htm

Here is another good article from 2012 that is easy to read.
http://farmprogress.com/story-stop-using-modified-live-vaccines-breeding-cattle-14-64594

The author, in no uncertain terms, says:
" modified live IBR vaccines should not be given to pregnant cows or newborn calves."

He cites an example of research done at the U of Wyoming.
 
Our cows have had lots of shots of MLV as calves and also prebreeding as yearlings. Then they go to the killed shot of Vira-Shield 6 +VL5. It has worked great for us without the risk of abortions also gives us a little more flexibility as to timing of vaccination. When you give MLV shots to the cows in the fall it has to be done within a years time also. Every fall can be different as to when cows are run thru and I didn't like being forced to work cows by the vaccine's schedule. We give it to our cows in the fall and our bred heifers in the fall. We don't vaccinate our cows in the spring pre-breeding, might be best but not feasible to work cows after out with calves. By the way, the killed virus for the cows came highly recommended by our vet and we were told it is just as effective and the only down size was it is a little more expensive.

As for calves I am a firm believer in the MLV shots both at branding and at pre-conditioning along with 7way.

On a side bar what is everbody's opinion on giving Pasturella to calves at branding time? A lot of folks say it is a waste of money and can make calves sicker than really help them. We started doing it a few years ago and we think it has really paid for us when August rolls around with its heat and dust.
 
Howdy1 said:
Our cows have had lots of shots of MLV as calves and also prebreeding as yearlings. Then they go to the killed shot of Vira-Shield 6 +VL5. It has worked great for us without the risk of abortions also gives us a little more flexibility as to timing of vaccination. When you give MLV shots to the cows in the fall it has to be done within a years time also. Every fall can be different as to when cows are run thru and I didn't like being forced to work cows by the vaccine's schedule. We give it to our cows in the fall and our bred heifers in the fall. We don't vaccinate our cows in the spring pre-breeding, might be best but not feasible to work cows after out with calves. By the way, the killed virus for the cows came highly recommended by our vet and we were told it is just as effective and the only down size was it is a little more expensive.

As for calves I am a firm believer in the MLV shots both at branding and at pre-conditioning along with 7way.

On a side bar what is everbody's opinion on giving Pasturella to calves at branding time? A lot of folks say it is a waste of money and can make calves sicker than really help them. We started doing it a few years ago and we think it has really paid for us when August rolls around with its heat and dust.
Click to expand...

I would agree with what you posted about MLV and Killed. We just gave ViraShield in the fall too. I sincerely feel it is the best killed vaccine out there.

Pasturella.........what brand of vaccine are you using? We have heard from vets that is isn't very effective so we stopped using it and never saw any
difference. If you think it helped in your situation, I guess I'd keep using it.
Again, our vet says the calves are generally too young to utilize those type
of vaccines at branding time. I'm all for doing what works......and eliminating what doesn't. :D
 
Our program is very similar to yours. I give pasturella at branding too. Not sure if it's effective or not but money is no object if it helps keep the calves healthy.
 
Big Swede said:
Our program is very similar to yours. I give pasturella at branding too. Not sure if it's effective or not but money is no object if it helps keep the calves healthy.
Click to expand...

Talking to my vet today and she was down to Vegas to a conference.Came back more confused about MLV and killed as some work better either way.
They are now saying young calves do get some immunity from vaccines while young. :???:
 

Latest posts

Back
Top