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WHO'S AFRAID of Winter Grazing??

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DOC HARRIS

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How many of you "Put up Hay" during the summer in abundance, sometimes more than you think you will need, because you are afraid you will run out in early Spring and have to BUY hay? Why don't you incorporate "WINTER GRAZING" into your plans, put up less hay, and let your cow herd harvest the forage? Just because you have "always done it that way!" doesn't mean that you have to continue doing it "that way".

What are your thoughts about using "Winter Gazing" and reduce your overhead and expenses? Would you like to save about $15.00 per cow per month by extending the grazing season? Or would you rather continue "Putting up Hay!" just because you always have done it that way!?

DOC HARRIS
 
In years past we always put in some corn or sorghum for winter grazing.
This year I fenced in a 40 acre hayfield for winter grazing. I try to stay 6 months ahead on feed. With the mild winter and cattle still grazing I am still feeding some 2005 hay. It will be March 1st before I start feeding 2006 hay. Some years we were short feed and bought hay and silage in March and April. After Property taxes, Income taxes, and insurance in the Spring its no fun having to pay for feed too.
 
Mrs.Greg said:
We always winter graze......but it doesn't last all winter,we also put up hay.
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This is exactly the way we do it. This past season was so dry that our best hayground only put up a third of a crop. Much ground that we normally hay was not worth baling, so we winter grazed it. Winter grazing is fine if there is grass. If there is a shortage of grass, or if it gets covered up with snow, it is a flamboyant plan gone awry. I'll bet there are a few folks with their winter grazing ground covered up with two feet of "global warming" that are wishing they had more hay. :?
 
Doc, our biggest problem with winter grazing is winters like this. So much rain, and so warm that the cows end up pugging the entire pasture up.. Rather have them on the 75 acre annual field that we will now have to chisel deep next spring to break the compaction... Have done winter grazing a bit with sheep, worked very well and they don't do the damage that the big momma cows tend to do to wet sod, but have been reluctant to do it again with the cows...

If I ever get off my butt and rework our crop land rental scheme I would probably winter graze stalks until about now and that would come in handy... But the plow jokeys want in those fields before the heavy frost sets in.
 
As far as winter grazing goes in our country you enjoy the best but you better be prepatred for the worst-were alot better off to leave some out there and get it earliar the next spring. Cattle up here will break into field to graze in April that they break out of in November.
 
Calculate land values into the winter grazing equation and see if it still pencils.

I just brought the cows home to start feeding, because they are ready to calve.

Most grasses don't have the value in them after frost so cows can't survive on belly deep grass if it is colder than 60 degrees out. The short grass that has excellent value even after it looks dead is often under snow or there just isn't enough of it unless you own lots of land.

Just for fun here are some numbers.

100 cows here would need another 800 acres to graze 5 winter months.

Cost of land approx $800 per acre, total cost $640,000

Hay for same cows @ 30 pounds a day 225 tons. Laid in cost @ $65 (high this year) $14,625

Payment on the $640,000 over 25 years $25,600 plus interest.

Tax benefit on hay 100% on land payment, interest only.
 
Northern Rancher said:
As far as winter grazing goes in our country you enjoy the best but you better be prepatred for the worst
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Yep, what NR said. Enjoy the best but prepare for the worst. My cow herd is still downsized from an almost complete dispersion I made in 2002 because of a combination of drought and health reasons. Now my herd is built back to about 50% "normal" capacity.

I have enough grazing to get me through the winter without hay if the grass doesn't get covered up with deep snow or iced in.


Another factor that needs to be brought up is later calving. The last few years I have started calving the last week of April. I save a pasture close to home specially for calving. I moved the cows out on new pasture as they calved so the calving pasture grazing lasted for the duration. So I fed virtually no hay all winter or spring. There were a few storms that I fed some hay until the snow melted off in a few days.

Later calving lets the cows graze dormant winter grass longer without supplement. By the time they reach that last tri-mester of pregnancy when the nutrition needs increase the green grass is (or should be!) started coming.

The opposite of all this of course is the winter of 96/97 which I'm sure many on here remember all too well. There was sure no winter grazing done at all that winter. Winter came early in Nov and stayed for the duration. I had just bought a stackmover that year and had a good hay crop. I got a lot of stacks moved and thought to myself I should have left some stacks out in the field because the hay corrals were "too full" It sure wasn't that way by spring! :shock: BTW, the hay I have on hand is from 2005 and previous years. I didn't turn a wheel in the hay field in 2006.
 
I haven't had to feed my cows hay since 2004 when I started after the New year. The winter of 02/03 we started in December and fed right thru.
Might have to start soon as the grass is shorter then normal due to rought. We are in a rugged area with lots of natural shelter and springs for water.
 
First good hard freeze kills our bermuda.....the fescue has and will be squeezed out by bermuda, thus the fescue won't hold up much either.

So it's put up hay but we have to only feed moderate amounts of hay and it's only for about 90 -120 days or so till grass starts up again!
 
We graze stock-piled fescue every winter. In fact feeding hay is the exception for us. HOWEVER.... this year was the driest in several decades and our stock-pile is only about half of usual. We will be feeding most groups before spring grass.
 
In our country, it takes about 2x as much acreage per month in the deep winter vs the summer.

Last summer, lease prices were at $25/month. That means it would cost me $50/month to graze a cow in the winter. For the same $50, I can get about 45 days of hay fed.

Hay is cheaper during the months when we need so much extra acreage.

Hay only gets expensive if you think you need all the latest equipment to put it up and feed it with.


Some how, the "grazers" always can tell me what I should be doing, but they don't pencil it the way I do.

They pencil winter grazing as less per month than summer. They must lease from people that still think the "old" way.

Why would I lease out pasture for $15 in the winter, when I could lease it out for $50 in the summer? ($25/month x 2) Take it in the shorts twice? I think not. Can anyone say OPPORTUNITY COST of summer vs winter grazing?

I wouldn't. I don't expect anyone else to do it either just because "that's they way we have always done it".



Badlands
 
Turn my cows into standing corn by October ( usually lasts for 60-70 days) It gets them into pretty good condition before we get the minus 25-30 degree weather. This winter ( What Winter) has been a lot warmer with very little snowfall. Would have been a good one for swath grazing but you can't put all your eggs in one basket.
 
Badlands said:
In our country, it takes about 2x as much acreage per month in the deep winter vs the summer.

Last summer, lease prices were at $25/month. That means it would cost me $50/month to graze a cow in the winter. For the same $50, I can get about 45 days of hay fed.

Hay is cheaper during the months when we need so much extra acreage.

Hay only gets expensive if you think you need all the latest equipment to put it up and feed it with.


Some how, the "grazers" always can tell me what I should be doing, but they don't pencil it the way I do.

They pencil winter grazing as less per month than summer. They must lease from people that still think the "old" way.




Badlands
Click to expand...

???????????

I don't follow your logic too well here? I admit that I am a bit slow. Could you explain in different terms, or an example?

I cannot see how you figure it costs you double to graze one in the winter. I do understand opportunity costs, but you lost me here.

We could run quite a few more cows if we chose to not winter graze, but I don't think our ranch would have higher net profits as a whole. Plus we work a lot less some winters. :shock: :lol:
 
cowzilla said:
Turn my cows into standing corn by October ( usually lasts for 60-70 days) It gets them into pretty good condition before we get the minus 25-30 degree weather. This winter ( What Winter) has been a lot warmer with very little snowfall. Would have been a good one for swath grazing but you can't put all your eggs in one basket.
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I understand the principle of swath grazing but what kind of crops work best for this? We left some windrows of grass or oats lay before but they didn't like it that well. What about next years farming? Will the extra residue plug up a drill for notill purposes?

have a cold one

lazy ace
 
In our area everyone feeds hay if we left our hay to stand for winter grazeing it would be nothing but stems and starveing cows..We all graze as late as possible but common sense prevails when it gets bitter cold and the grazeing is gone or snowed under its time to feed.Hay ground is cheaper to rent than pasture land here but it has no fences for the most part.
 
Lazy Ace; We do some swath grazing and prefer silage barley (swathed at the soft dough stage) as the crop. The cows clean it right up and it retains feed value fairly well. The manure is an added bonus on the cropland. Whenever we tried oats there was a lot of waste that was difficult to seed through. There are people that either stockpile or swath hay but it is difficult to gauge weather conditions to have a feed base that retains the needed nutrients for cow maintenance. I've watched the corn grazers and it can supply a lot of feed but to me the input costs are too high on a crop that can be chancy to grow in our country. Some producers are having success with swath grazing tame millet as cows like it and it resists weather damage quite well. We just turned our cowherd into the swaths yesterday and it is a nice change from having to feed. Hopefully the snow doesn't get too deep before the cows finish swath grazing!
 
In our area, wintr grazing requires supplementation and an eye on the weather...Severe cold means making plans for water as much as anything...

I did some winter grazing last year on some property that had no cattle on it until I put some there September.....In Hindsight, I'd of started suplementing afalfa sooner,

PPRM
 
Why don't you incorporate "WINTER GRAZING" into your plans, put up less hay, and let your cow herd harvest the forage?

Doc
Hoz ur grazing doing today. I stopped by my sister's house in Ft Collins yesterday and it did not look like a lot of grass showing around there!! Possibly, there was more snow in town, but it looked white everywhere to me.

Most people around here fall graze some but if you figure the cost, it don't pencil out for me. Leaving some pasture to make sure you get through the summer is one thing, but pasture around here cost way too much to save for grazing all winter. Now I am looking at what pasture cost around here. $32 to $35 per pair per month is common and some is leased for more than that. Now if you are getting grazing for prices that Harlan Hughes quotes in beef magazine, then it may figure differently.

Calving some later is an option for some; however, I do not have pasture near home that I can check on cows calving while they are grazing in the spring. I have to get them spread out into pastures miles from home, so that don't work for me.
 
I think this thread shows just how adaptive we have to be in the cattle biz to make it work. We have people way up north doing very late season grazing and people down south that have to feed hay. and neighbours side by side that do things differently. Guess as long as we can stay in business and be happy with with what we are doing WHO'S to say what's right or wrong. :lol:
 

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