• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Why do some cows and heifers abort?

Help Support Ranchers.net:

OK, have to just say what my dad and grandpa always said about abortions, said that it was natures way of taking care of their own. Normally as one post said, there either was a abnormality in the calf or it just wasnt going to survive. We accept it and go on, now if there is more open than normal, we do get concerned. Just my two cents worth...lol, which aint worth nothing these days.

Everyone have a great New Years and good luck in calving season!!
 
Amazing the problems that can be fixed rather quickly with the right mineral or Vitamin. Around here, if I see cows not cleaning out quickly after calving, I know it is a little more Selenium that they need,

I was surprised to hear the high Abortion numbers. I maybe have been lucky. I did have a cow pregged bred 2 months this spring that is open. I couldn't keep all the cows together, so I sent the bred ones one direction and the Pregnant ones another with the Bull.

I think it would be interesting to see how folks do things a little different in other parts of the country. I know of nobody that feeds Cake around here. I saw an ad in the Capital Press for Pizza Flour Waste, 13.5% protien and 3.5% fat. $100.00 per ton. Hows that compare to cake????

I tested my pature grass two weeks ago. 10.5% Protien. I haven't sat down and figured it out, but the momma's and babies are looking good. I think they will be somewhere else in a few weeks. Was going to be home, but it's a lake around the feedstack/feeders I set up,

PPRM
 
10.5% Protein in your grass at this time of year? Wish I knew a little Spanish, because I would say you are mighty lucky in Spanish. (I like the way they say it~). I doubt if you need to add any supplement to that...we feed hay that is 10.5 protein and the cows do great on it.

When looking at a forage analysis (and I mean for hay) I would like to clue everyone in to be sure to check 4 main things. #1. Protein
#2. Energy #3. Dry Matter #4. Acid Detergent Fiber-ADF designates how digestible the forage is. The higher number the less digestible. It is a very important part of a forage test. When you put out hay and the cows don't eat it, often times they can't digest it. So check the ADF number on your report. Anything in the 40's is fairly high and means the feed is not as digestible as you would like.

OK?
 
Several years ago I bought a few angus cows from a good local breeder. One of the young cows didn't have a calf and when I questioned him about it he said he just found her new born calf dead. I took her anyway as she was the best looking cow in the bunch. Her second calf came okay and she raised it fine although I noticed she didn't seem to want to let it nurse for the first few hours which was concerning me. The third calf came about 3 weeks early and I found it dead . So now that's two out of 3 same result. And there was no trama in her life at the time. I asked every vet I came into contact for the next few months what would cause this and the only answer I could get was there are a few cows that don't maintain the correct hormone balance in the placenta to go to full term. Don't know what causes that. Anyway she went to town and I've never had another one since.
 
Been thinking about this.....

If what a cow eats can fix her, it can hurt her. At a 4-5% average, if it isn't infectious disease, I'd bank a lot (not all) on something eaten. A lot of these cows summer in remote areas with a lot of different weeds, ect....


Just thinkin outloud..


I am lucky on this fall/winter pasture. Theres enough sub irrigation still going out in areas to keep the grass warm and green. I could show you some crested wheatgrass pastures in southern oregon that cows do amazing on. The test kinda coonfimed what I thought, but made me feel better. Kinda like putting suplement tubs out only less costly, LOL,

This pasture will run out soon. I got a line on another, but it will take two days to finish fencing it. I don't have two days, but it may make sense to have it done and pay a guy I know,


PPRM
 
I am sure there can be multiple reasons cows abort. The general concensus on this thread seems to be nutritional and that may be correct. The cow I referred to however had aborted 2 of her first 3 pregnancies and they were under two owners two different ranches. I am convienced there was something genetic there.
 
efb: I would tend to agree with your vets that said it probably was hormone related. Cattle tend to be more sensative third trimester to moldy hay etc. That is why we try to feed our old carryover hay this time of the year (cows don't calve until mid April). In your particular case you were wise to sell that cow as she probably would have done the same thing again if given the chance.
 
Faster horses said:
10.5% Protein in your grass at this time of year? Wish I knew a little Spanish, because I would say you are mighty lucky in Spanish. (I like the way they say it~). I doubt if you need to add any supplement to that...we feed hay that is 10.5 protein and the cows do great on it.

When looking at a forage analysis (and I mean for hay) I would like to clue everyone in to be sure to check 4 main things. #1. Protein
#2. Energy #3. Dry Matter #4. Acid Detergent Fiber-ADF designates how digestible the forage is. The higher number the less digestible. It is a very important part of a forage test. When you put out hay and the cows don't eat it, often times they can't digest it. So check the ADF number on your report. Anything in the 40's is fairly high and means the feed is not as digestible as you would like.

OK?
Click to expand...

FH:

"Good luck" in Spanish is "Que Suerte," and "you have good luck" is "Tienes Que Suerte!!!"


As Haymaker says, "Que Suerte!!!"
:wink:
Cheers,

TTB
 
The hay that my girls are eating this winter (80/20 alfalfa-timothy grass mix) is 14.5 protein. It was cut early with the timothy heads not quite fully emerged from the boot stage. Will I have to dilute this with some rougher hay? It's the best hay I've ever fed. The cows are due in April/May.
 
How much of that hay are you feeding per head per day? Are your cows in good shape now, or do you want them to gain weight?

14.5% protein indicates it is pretty good hay, and is most likely very digestible. However, if you have a forage analysis, it should show you the ADF. I would also need to know the moisture content and then I would be able to figure what your cows are consuming. Feel free to post it if you would like me to figure it out.

If this is the hay you have on hand, and there is plenty of it, just feed it. If you want to stretch it, you could feed some lesser quality stuff. It is better to feed the lesser quality hay before the third trimester; for you it would almost be too late now. April 1 calvers would be entering the third trimester right now. May 1 calvers would have until Feb. 1. Nutrition requirements rise in the third trimester.

Hope this helps.
 
To add to FH's comments, the TDN (based off ADF and other numbers) and protien are able to compensate for each other in ruminants. If the energy (TDN) is low the cows might need all the protien.

Add to that cow condition, weather, shelter, water, mineral, waste and palatabilty to know if the cows are getting enough.

I am feeding about 3300 pounds of feed to 110 cows. It is almost 2/3 greenfeed maybe 11% protien and 1/3 alfalfa should be 14% or better. The weather is warm, they are calving outside in a hayfield. If I increase the feed by 200 pounds they start leaving some, if I short them 200 pounds they complain. (I have scales on a supreme and mix the feed).
 
Faster horses said:
How much of that hay are you feeding per head per day? Are your cows in good shape now, or do you want them to gain weight?

14.5% protein indicates it is pretty good hay, and is most likely very digestible. However, if you have a forage analysis, it should show you the ADF. I would also need to know the moisture content and then I would be able to figure what your cows are consuming. Feel free to post it if you would like me to figure it out.

If this is the hay you have on hand, and there is plenty of it, just feed it. If you want to stretch it, you could feed some lesser quality stuff. It is better to feed the lesser quality hay before the third trimester; for you it would almost be too late now. April 1 calvers would be entering the third trimester right now. May 1 calvers would have until Feb. 1. Nutrition requirements rise in the third trimester.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Right now, they are getting about 10 Lbs. and filling up on some wrapped hayalge that was cut too ripe, so it's just "filler" material. By the end of next week, they will be on free choice of that good hay and I think they will be eating about 30 lbs./day of it, judging by the number of 748 Lb. bales I gave them for a few days when I didn't feed haylage.

The cows are in good flesh with a few of the black baldies bordering on fat, so all I need to do is maintain them. I don't have the complete analysis on hand, but can get it when I take delivery of the rest of the hay.

This is the first time that I have had to buy most of my winters feed for the cows. Between over-grazing last year and then a droughty spring and summer, I was just plain short on feed so this is what I bought for them. Cost me 5 cents a lb. delivered. Ouch.
 
Still was probably the cheapest feed you could buy for what you will get out of it.

I don't know about the other feed you mentioned. They will need more than 10 lbs. it seems to me. But then, I don't know about the other feed you mentioned.

When you get it, post the analysis and we will go through what your cows were getting at 10 lbs. and what they will get at 30 lbs. It is always interesting.
 
Buffalo008.jpg


I had three slip in one day when this large headed dink from my neighbors got to running my calving pasture-I immediately administered 130 grains of preventative medicine with the desired results.
 
We bought a bunch of heifers from one our neighbors in December. They had been preg checked and they had a lot of opens. We drove them home - about 5 miles and it took several hours - no hurry.

Almost immediately, we had two heifers abort and noticed a couple of others that didn't look right.

Got the vet out and he checked four of them and found that they had all aborted. He did blood tests and took vaginal fluid samples on them.

Fortunately, there was no evidence of any sort of viral disease. His conclusion is that they had a severe copper shortage.

Our water is different and has a lot of copper in it. We also feed mineral with high copper content along with range cake with copper. Neighbor does not do this. We also raised 90 heifers of our own and had no such problem.

Vet says that by now, they will be building copper levels up and they should be OK.

Neighbor we bought them from is willing to make the deal good so we are not too upset. I guess if we had bought them from the sale barn, we would be SOL.
 
Good thing that he will make it right. I do not understand why people don't understand that feeding mineral can solve a lot of problems.

Another thing I don't get, is the people that put cattle in feedlots and don't have mineral as part of the ration. We see lots of grass yearlings that have problems. When we check back on their history it is glaringly clear; they were in a feedlot at the cheapest price possible and no mineral was fed. I'm telling you, it really can show up for the guy purchasing them to run on grass.

I've seen it all. Hoofrot, pinkeye, abortion, unthriftiness and poor doers. The one common denominator: no mineral fed during the winter.

If I was buying cattle of any type, when I checked them out I would definitely find out if they had access to mineral all of their life. IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE. Feeding mineral PAYS.
 
Elk Study May Help Cattle
By Kathryn Barry Stelljes
June 24, 1997
Elk have yielded a secret that could help rangeland cattle bear healthy calves even if they eat Ponderosa pine needles during their pregnancies.
Scientists with the Agricultural Research Service in Montana are the first to discover that pregnant elk who eat the needles show no reproductive problems or constriction in their blood vessels. University of Iowa and Iowa State University researchers collaborated in the study.
Scientists as well as ranchers have long known that problems arise for pregnant cattle that eat the needles in the last trimester. Blood flow to the uterus decreases dramatically. The cow delivers early, and her calves often die. But elk apparently can neutralize the natural toxins in the needles.
Ponderosa pines, common on Western grazing lands, cover 27 million acres in the United States. In 1988, the last available estimate, so-called "pine needle abortions" cost cattle ranchers more than $20 million annually.
At ARS' Fort Keogh Livestock and Range Research Laboratory, Miles City, Mont., scientists are testing several ruminants--including bison, sheep, goats and other grazers--to find ways to prevent abortions in cattle caused by pine needle poisoning. Ruminants are mammals whose stomachs have four compartments, the first one being the rumen.
The scientists believe natural microorganisms in the elk rumen render the needles harmless. Researchers are working to determine the differences between elk and cow rumen flora, with the goal of reducing or eliminating the toxic effects of pine needles. They also are evaluating bighorn sheep and white-tailed deer.
In related work, the university-ARS team unexpectedly discovered--and patented--potentially useful chemicals called waxy lipids in the pine needles. These lipids appear to have no effects on pregnant cattle other than restricting uterine blood flow. That might make them beneficial for treating postpartum hemorrhages and other human ailments.
Scientific contact: Robert Short, USDA-ARS Fort Keogh Livestock and Range Research Laboratory, Miles City, Mont., phone (406) 232-4970, fax 232-8209, [email protected].
 
January 5, 2003 Ralph Phillips, Farm Advisor
Range/Natural Resources and Livestock

PINE NEEDLE ABORTION

Several months ago a rancher contacted me about the possibility of having pine needle abortion problems in his herd. I was not aware of any problem in the county so I contacted the poisonous plant research laboratory, USDA, Logan, Utah. The people at the lab said that there was a possibility that junipers could be causing the problem. They said that we should identify the type of juniper and send them samples to be analyzed for the compound in pine and juniper that can cause abortion. We have identified the type of juniper and had it analyzed.
Before we talk about the analysis it would be appropriate to discuss the history of pine needle abortion and how the toxin compound caused abortion. It was first reported in the 1920s that pine needles could be the cause of abortion in cattle. By 1952 research had proved that Ponderosa or yellow pine could cause abortion. It was in the mid 1990s that the abortion causing compound was isolated and identified, isocupressic acid (ICA). Further research showed that ICA caused late term (last trimester) abortion. The toxicity of ICA is dose dependent and large doses of the compound could cause the cow to abort sooner than low doses. So, it is difficult to say exactly how many pounds of pine or juniper a cow needs to eat before she aborts. In some cases cows will need to eat 10 – 15 pounds a day for several days before they will abort, but as little as 4 or 5 pounds can cause cows to abort.
ICA restricts the blood flow to the placenta and the calf basically starves to death in the cow's uterus. Smaller amounts of ICA will take longer for the calf to starve to death and larger amounts will starve the calf to death in a very short time. Also, the larger the calf, the quicker ICA can cause abortion. Larger calves require more nutrients from the cow, thus taking a shorter time to die. One of the signs of ICA abortion is a large percent of the cows that abort late term will have a retained placenta.
Kern County is known to have three species that have caused abortion; Ponderosa pine, Jeffery pine and California juniper. All of these species have high levels of ICA. Before becoming too concerned, remember that cows must eat the needles during the last trimester of pregnancy and there also must be an ample supply of trees to graze and the cow must get enough pine needles to cause abortion. Just because these types of trees are on your range does not mean ICA is the problem. However, if you have unexplained abortions, ICA could be the cause.

----------------------------------------------------------
Another artical says calves maybe saved

http://ag.arizona.edu/arec/pubs/rmg/4%20animalcare&healthmaintenance/31%20pineneedleabortion01.pdf
 
Soap...Vit A shots causing abortions is one of last things I would have thought of, but I believe you are 100% correct, been there done that.

And as far as Miles City figuring out the cause of pine needle abortion, I have to say that they have been working on that project for at least 40 years now, so don't expect anything soon. Sorry I can't express more confidence in them, however if they get it figured out, they would loose their funding. One thing that prevents it is a 25-30,000 acre fire in the neighborhood, that along with keeping cows out of them.

I like the idea of putting the mineral in the cake, all get their share.
 

Latest posts

Top