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Why the BS?

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Sandhusker

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I'd like to know why the USDA seems intent on trying to BS us continually.

Their reasoning for denying Creekstone and other small packers the ability to BSE test would be laughable if it were not such a serious matter.
You all remember the song and dance about "sound science", non approved tests, "implications", consumer's perceptions, ad nauseum - when there were multitudes of real-life examples that contradicted their claims.

They waver from a "sound science" based zero tolerance policy towards importing from BSE positive countries, also because of "sound science". (Apparently, science changed right around May 23, 2003)

Now we are supposed to belive that importing from BSE positive countries will help us re-establish our export markets when, once again, we have a prime example in our accepting boxed beef from Canada that throws water on that notion.

Why all the deception? Do they think US producers believe everything the government says as gospel? Why are they spreading more BS than a 300hp manure spreader? What is the REAL intent behind their actions? Why does the the NCBA just parrot what they hear from USDA? Me thinks I smell a rat. :???:
 

Big Muddy rancher

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Sandhusker Me thinks I smell a rat.



_________________
The only diffence between a brown noser and a sh_t-head is depth perception.


Sandhusker maybe your depth preception is off.
:cowboy:
 
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Anonymous

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Sandhusker: "Now we are supposed to belive that importing from BSE positive countries will help us re-establish our export markets when, once again, we have a prime example in our accepting boxed beef from Canada that throws water on that notion."

If we are accepting Canadian boxed beef why would Canadian cattle be less safe?

Japan has not exported from us because we had a domestic case of BSE that originated from Canada.

What better way to prove that we have taken the necessary precautionary measures to address BSE than to take the cattle that are now coming down in boxes?

When are you going to provide proof that Japan would take our beef with BSE testing?

You parrot the R-CALF statements but you never back them with supporting facts.

"ad nauseum" is right!



~SH~
 

Sandhusker

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I'm surprised at the brevity of your post, SH. I would of lost a bet to Soapweed. However, I'm not surprised that you dodged the question. I'll represent them for you.

1) If the US taking Canadian boxed beef has not had any effect on Japan taking our beef, why should be believe that the US taking live cattle will pry them open?

2) Why does the USDA continue to try to baffle us with BS?

3) Why doesn't the NCBA call them out?

Bonus Question;
Why don't you call them to the carpet for lying to us? :twisted:
 

Tam

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Could the fact that you take our beef and not our live animals be showing the Japanese that you trust our beef but not your slaughter plants. :wink:
 

Sandhusker

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Tam said:
Could the fact that you take our beef and not our live animals be showing the Japanese that you trust our beef but not your slaughter plants. :wink:

I think you're really reaching there, Tam! We're not showing Japan anything via Canada because it's obvious they're not looking.
 

Tam

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Are you sure their not looking? maybe they are seeing what you refuse to see. If a country takes another countries beef but not the same aged live cattle. Is it the beef that is not safe or the place it is slaughtered. :???:
 
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Anonymous

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Liking beaver has never been a bad thing in straight men.
Are you saying you don't care for it,RCALF?
 
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Anonymous

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Tam said:
Are you sure their not looking? maybe they are seeing what you refuse to see. If a country takes another countries beef but not the same aged live cattle. Is it the beef that is not safe or the place it is slaughtered. :???:

She is right on the money Sandhusker. The Japanese are looking alright and they have been since Dec/03.
 

Sandhusker

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Tam said:
Are you sure their not looking? maybe they are seeing what you refuse to see. If a country takes another countries beef but not the same aged live cattle. Is it the beef that is not safe or the place it is slaughtered. :???:

Tam, Tam, Tam. Japan was taking beef processed in US packing plants prior to Dec. 2003. Something happened in Dec., 2003, and it wasn't anything to do with our packing plants. :wink:
 
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Anonymous

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In december 2003 beef from a BSE positive animal made it into the american food supply.
 

Mike

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Anonymous said:
In december 2003 beef from a BSE positive animal made it into the american food supply.

And there is NO TELLING how many others have made it into the "world's food supply". By not testing them all, since the case in Canada in Jan. (May) 2003 we have missed a chance to eradicate the disease on this continent. It has cost the US and Canada billions, and the loss in exports is still adding up.
 
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Anonymous

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Nebrusker (R-CALF),

There's nothing I find more entertaining than watching an R-CALF "head nodder" like you make a complete ass out of yourself trying to discredit those who he obviously can not touch in a debate of the facts.

As usual, you bring nothing of intelligence to the discussion and the reason is quite apparent. Instead, you show the world how desperate and "factually void" you really are in defending your views with your discrediting blather. How elementary!

Keep posting Nebrusker, R-CALF must be so proud of you!

When you think you have the courage to debate me on the facts, let me know. Until then, your discrediting blather is unworthy of further response.


To Sandhusker's generic statements..............

1) If the US taking Canadian boxed beef has not had any effect on Japan taking our beef, why should be believe that the US taking live cattle will pry them open?

First, when did Japanese exports to the U.S. stop?

WHEN WE FOUND THE WASHINGTON BSE COW WITHIN OUR BORDERS!!!!

By opening the Canadian border to UTM live cattle THAT ARE NOW COMING DOWN IN BOXES, it proves that we are adhering to the science that SRM removal eliminates the risk of contracting BSE JUST AS IT WOULD IF WE HAD BSE.

By taking Canadian live cattle THAT ARE NOW COMING DOWN IN BOXES, we are not saying one thing and doing another.

If your 100% BSE testing parroted argument and your Canadian live cattle concerns had any validity, Japan would still be arguing for 100% testing and tracking of Canadian cattle. THEY'RE NOT!!!!

Japan is negotiating age verification which acknowledges the science that shows UTM testing is a wasted effort beyond revealing that it's a wasted effort.

Japan's actions speak much louder than your speculation to their concerns.


Sandhusker: "2) Why does the USDA continue to try to baffle us with BS?"

Be specific. You sound like Leo, Bill, Herman, and Mike. Anyone can make statements.


Sandhusker: "3) Why doesn't the NCBA call them out?"

ON WHAT??? Be specific! This isn't a blamer's convention where you make statements while fellow blamers nod their heads.

BACK YOUR POSITION UP WITH SUPPORTING FACTS FOR ONCE!!!!



Now answer my questions...........

If we are accepting Canadian boxed beef why would Canadian cattle be less safe?

When are you going to provide proof that Japan would take our beef with BSE testing?



~SH~
 
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Anonymous

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Sandhusker,

What leverage can we possibly have with Japan to say that our UTM beef is safe but then turn around and suggest that Canadian UTM cattle are not BUT THE BOXED BEEF FROM THOSE CATTLE IS SAFE?????

How insane is that?


Tam: "If a country takes another countries beef but not the same aged live cattle. Is it the beef that is not safe or the place it is slaughtered."

All Canadian bias aside, Tam is exactly right. Our current actions suggest that we do not trust our processing facilities but we trust Canadian processing facilities.

That's what happens when you try to play politics with science.


~SH~
 

Tam

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Sandhusker said:
Tam said:
Are you sure their not looking? maybe they are seeing what you refuse to see. If a country takes another countries beef but not the same aged live cattle. Is it the beef that is not safe or the place it is slaughtered. :???:

Tam, Tam, Tam. Japan was taking beef processed in US packing plants prior to Dec. 2003. Something happened in Dec., 2003, and it wasn't anything to do with our packing plants. :wink:

Sandhusker Sandhusker Sandhusker(please get a shorter name :lol: ) something did happen in Dec 2003 and it had everything to do with your packing plants. They allowed a BSE positive cow to be ground and mixed with 10,000 pounds of hamburger and be distributed to at least eight States. They tried to recall it but it was to late as some had already been eaten.

It also had everything with the USDA's creditibility. The USDA tried to down play it by saying that she was a downer, all downers are tested and the SRM's were removed. But they later had to clarify that statemment by saying that "well she was laying down as the vet inspected her but there is nothing to say she didn't get up and walk later." If she wasn't a downer in the plants eyes, that had a policy not to accept downers which the USDA knew about , then would have the SRM's been removed, not likely as there was no rule saying they had to be from a non downer animal. Then the investigation into your testing program showed you didn't and don't test all downer by a far cry, only a small selective sample were and are tested. Oh three strikes and there goes the USDA credibility.

Just maybe you should really look at what happen surrounding the DEC 2003 case and think to yourself, The rest of the world read this too. What do you think they would think of the job the USDA and the US beef industry has done? They have tried to down play the whole issue and blame it on someone else to the point of discrediting themselves!!!

Then look at the so called surveillance program and ask yourself are we really trying to prove anything to ourselves and the rest of the world when we aren't testing the target animals that were recommended by the OIE?

This is not all the USDA's fault if they had come out and told the honest truth the US beef industry would have roasted them on a spit, for the drop in consumer confidence. Just like they did when they announced the inconclusive test results that cause a drop in cattle prices.

If this border is not opened using the science as we know it, the US cattlemen will roast the USDA if/when a BSE case is found as you will have to live by the same non-sciencific rules. Plus you will have to live will all the lies that R-CALF has been spouting about Canadian beef. What do you think will happen to consumer confidence then.

Please remember when you are thinking about this whole issue that
1: Canada is almost 2 years farther down the rode to recovery.
2: We have a tracing system on all cattle that is working and is being improved on.
3: The CFIA has yearly records on feed ban compliance.
4: Our slaughter plants can guarantee that an export market is only getting UTM meat as our plants either slaughter OTM or UTM but not both in same plant.
5: Our surveillance program is doing a better job at testing the Highest risk targeted animals, ie the fallen stock on farms.
6: No infected meat was recalled from the Canadian food chain.
7: We also held on to consumer confidence and built on it.
8: We qualify as a minimal risk country as even with our stronger testing we have only found three cases in almost 2 years,
and the three most important things to our industries survival
1: We don't have a beef organization telling our consumers that the meat they are eating is unsafe and a risk to their health
2: We still have creditibily to our handleing of the BSE issue.
3: We are increasing slaughter capacity. which is worrying the US slaughter industry.
 
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Anonymous

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Excellent point Tam and SH. Sandhusker will not answer your questions as he never has before. He will merely spin the thread in another direction. Fact is that the US takes beef from animals under 30 months from Canada yet takes no live under 30. That will change March 7 as it simply tells the world that Canada is capable of inspecting under 30 and the US isn't.

Live under 30 remains on track despite a handful of dissenters.
 

Tam

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I think that one of the reason the USDA pulled the over thirty month meat was because of that same reason. Since the March 7th rule didn't take the OTM animals but took the meat who's system would it look as if they didn't trust. They pulled it so they could allow both in at the same time to show a united front with Canadian meat and animals in the US slaughter plants.
 

Sandhusker

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Tam said:
Sandhusker said:
Tam said:
Are you sure their not looking? maybe they are seeing what you refuse to see. If a country takes another countries beef but not the same aged live cattle. Is it the beef that is not safe or the place it is slaughtered. :???:

Tam, Tam, Tam. Japan was taking beef processed in US packing plants prior to Dec. 2003. Something happened in Dec., 2003, and it wasn't anything to do with our packing plants. :wink:

Sandhusker Sandhusker Sandhusker(please get a shorter name :lol: ) something did happen in Dec 2003 and it had everything to do with your packing plants. They allowed a BSE positive cow to be ground and mixed with 10,000 pounds of hamburger and be distributed to at least eight States. They tried to recall it but it was to late as some had already been eaten.

Tam, Tam, Tam-Tam-Tam,
Lets say you are correct about our packing plants - I don't agree, but lets say you are right. Even if our packing plants are inept as can be, how will the US taking live cattle from Canada prompt the Japanese to take US beef? The USDA says it will, (I notice you don't think them to be real credible, either), NCBA says it will, some on this board say it will, but nobody can offer an explanation how! NOTHING that we have done in regards to Canada has budged them an inch. Why would anything else be different?
 

Sandhusker

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~SH~ said:
Nebrusker (R-CALF),

To Sandhusker's generic statements..............

1) If the US taking Canadian boxed beef has not had any effect on Japan taking our beef, why should be believe that the US taking live cattle will pry them open?

SH's response, "First, when did Japanese exports to the U.S. stop?
WHEN WE FOUND THE WASHINGTON BSE COW WITHIN OUR BORDERS!!!!
By opening the Canadian border to UTM live cattle THAT ARE NOW COMING DOWN IN BOXES, it proves that we are adhering to the science that SRM removal eliminates the risk of contracting BSE JUST AS IT WOULD IF WE HAD BSE. By taking Canadian live cattle THAT ARE NOW COMING DOWN IN BOXES, we are not saying one thing and doing another.If your 100% BSE testing parroted argument and your Canadian live cattle concerns had any validity, Japan would still be arguing for 100% testing and tracking of Canadian cattle. THEY'RE NOT!!!! Japan is negotiating age verification which acknowledges the science that shows UTM testing is a wasted effort beyond revealing that it's a wasted effort.

Yada Yada Yada. Nice disertation but you still HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION! Us taking Canadian boxed beef did nothing to budge Japan, why would taking live cattle?

SH,"Japan's actions speak much louder ....."

Exactly. What have Japan's actions (and inactions) been to our moves with Canada?



SH, "Now answer my questions...........If we are accepting Canadian boxed beef why would Canadian cattle be less safe? When are you going to provide proof that Japan would take our beef with BSE testing? "

I don't think we should be taking either. That was our "science based" policy prior to May 23, 2003. The "science" has not changed since then.

You want proof AGAIN? I've told you FOUR times now that Mike posted your proof. I even told you the approzimate date! You (the one who tells others to "do your own homework") keep ignoring it!

SH, YOU ARE JAPAN. YOU SEE THE US TAKING LIVE CANADIAN CATTLE. HOW IS THAT GOING TO PROMPT YOU TO OPEN YOUR BORDER TO US CATTLE?


~SH~
 
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Anonymous

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When are you going to provide proof that Japan would take our beef with BSE testing?A SO Japan Is Going To Take The EU 's TESTED beef!!!!!!!
 

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