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Will Embarrassing the President Make Us Safer?

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Texan

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Will Embarrassing the President Make Us Safer?
By Ed Koch


Over the last few years I have written of my fears that we Americans, as a people, have lost our will to fight for our freedom.

We have come to expect that wars can be fought without casualties, even the relatively modest casualties we have suffered in Iraq. During World War Two, more Americans were killed or wounded on Iwo Jima in one month than have fallen in Iraq in almost four years. Of course, every military death and severe injury is a tragedy. Nevertheless, former Secretary of State Colin Powell has said that our army in Iraq is "about broken," which appalled and frightened me. Added to those two disturbing dangers to our national security is a new and third factor: denial of a military threat to our armed forces. Such a denial allows us to avoid addressing the threat with an appropriate military response.

We are not at war with Iran, but Iran seems to be at war with us. In the last year we have suffered at least 170 American military deaths in Iraq and 640 American soldiers have been injured as a result of Iranian manufactured and supplied explosives supplied to Iraqi insurgents and terrorists. These explosives are planted at the side of the road and are activated when U.S. military vehicles pass by. They are especially dangerous because their high technology design allows them to penetrate armored vehicles and kill and maim the occupants.

All American leaders, including the President, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, and Chairman of the Joint chiefs of Staff, General Peter Pace, agree that these weapons are manufactured in Iran. They are provided to Iraqi insurgents and terrorists by an Iranian military unit known as the Quds Force. What we are not able to state with certainty is whether, according to The New York Times, "senior leaders of Iran's government are directly involved in the attacks."

The Times states, "Based on evidence gathered inside Iraq, American intelligence analysts have concluded that a branch of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps known as the Quds Force is supplying Shiite groups with Iranian-designed weapons, called explosively formed penetrators."

The Times reported, "Because the Quds Force, which operates outside Iran, has historically fallen under the command of Iran's senior religious leaders, intelligence agencies have concluded that top leaders in Tehran are directing the attacks."

General Peter Pace is quoted in The Times as saying "that American forces had confirmed that some bomb materials found inside Iraq were made in Iran, but 'that does not translate that the Iranian government per se, for sure, is directly involved in doing this.'"

The Times points out the [Iranian revolutionary] "Guard has also been accused of supporting terrorist attacks outside Iran, notably the 1996 truck bomb attack on the Khobar Towers complex in Saudi Arabia that killed 19 American service members. In December, a federal judge ruled that the government of Iran bore responsibility for the Khobar Towers attack and ordered Tehran to pay survivors of those killed more than $253 million."

So what do we know with certainty? There are those in Iran, on a significant scale, supplying Iraqi insurgents and terrorists with deadly bombs responsible for killing and injuring 820 American soldiers in the last year. Is it reasonable to believe that is possible without the approval of sectors of the Iranian government? I refer to the civil government of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the theocratic and supreme government of the religious leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the dominant government official.

In dictatorships where dissidents seek to engage in activities prohibited by the state, those so engaged usually end up on the gallows. They are enemies of the state. It is beyond the realm of common sense to believe the Iranian government is aware of the supply activity as it is, the U.S. having made it public on several occasions, and is neither actively or passively, and knowledgably engaged in that activity. In fascist, Nazi, communist, theocratic and totalitarian states that extensively control the lives and political conduct of their citizens, there is very little crime, and practically zero crime against the state.

The Times reports why the Iranian government is engaging in this kind of behavior, writing, "Still American intelligence agencies have concluded that over the past year the Iranian government had adopted a new policy of directly confronting the United States inside Iraq. The policy officials assess is aimed partly at raising the cost of American involvement in the Middle East, teaching the Bush administration a lesson about the cost of regime change and putting pressure on American forces to leave.

"But another reason, they say, is to dissuade the Bush administration from taking a more confrontational policy toward Tehran by sending a message that Iran can ratchet up the attacks on American forces in Iraq."

It appears that Iran has succeeded in staring us down and preventing us from taking appropriate military action to protect our troops and punish those seeking to harm them. Iran will not be required to pay a price because our army is "about broken" and is not capable of responding. How awful and unnerving for the U.S., the sole remaining superpower in the world.

Democrats and some Republicans in Congress are seeking to humble, embarrass and, if they can, destroy the President and the prestige of his position as the Commander-in-Chief who is responsible for the safety of our military forces and the nation's defenses. By doing so, they are adding to the dangers that face our nation. And so I ask again them again: do you think that leaving a power vacuum in Iraq will make us safer? If, as a result of the power vacuum, the terrorists are emboldened and God forbid we sustain here in the U.S. civilian casualties comparable to those caused in Iraq by car bombs, will you publicly accept responsibility?


Ed Koch is the former (democrat) Mayor of New York City.
 
Of course it won't make us safer ....and that's the very reason ' Dubya" needs to quit embarassing US!!!
 
kolanuraven said:
Of course it won't make us safer ....and that's the very reason ' Dubya" needs to quit embarassing US!!!

KAKA go back and READ what was written!! stop embarrassing yourself with comments you make with out basis!

do your self a big big favor and read and learn and then shut up and stop making yourself look dumber and dumber with every post

your hate for bush is making you look more and more like an idiot, what did he do so bad to make you hate him so much, did he refuse your advances, was he a real man unlike your buddy bill and refuse to give you a cigar and let you stain your dress?
or did every one in the white house thumb their nose at you when you offered your SERVICES on your back/knees to them?

:D :D
 
Texan...you are forgetting (or Mayor Koch did) that over 7,000 Americans were lost in ONE EXERCISE in the ocean prior to the Normandy Invasion.

Or the thousands lost on the Bataan Death March, both American and Filipino, to the bloodthirsty and brutal Japanese.

But maybe kolanuraven "supports the troops"?!? :???:
 
loomixguy said:
Texan...you are forgetting (or Mayor Koch did) that over 7,000 Americans were lost in ONE EXERCISE in the ocean prior to the Normandy Invasion.

Or the thousands lost on the Bataan Death March, both American and Filipino, to the bloodthirsty and brutal Japanese.

But maybe kolanuraven "supports the troops"?!? :???:

I forgot, supporting the troops is code for sending more to get killed. It's hard to cut through the BS on both sides of the aisle but even harder on this message board.
 
What dimwits fail to understand is that you can't be against the war but support the troops.

If you suppport the troops, then you support the war, whether you believe that or not.

Typical libs........just like Lurch claiming he voted for the war before he voted against it........... :mad: .....there used to be homes across the country for feebs.....now they are all over the place, unchecked!
 
loomixguy said:
What dimwits fail to understand is that you can't be against the war but support the troops.

If you suppport the troops, then you support the war, whether you believe that or not.

Typical libs........just like Lurch claiming he voted for the war before he voted against it........... :mad: .....there used to be homes across the country for feebs.....now they are all over the place, unchecked!

Is putting the wounded in building eighteen and then claim they caused the rats and roaches supporting the troops?
 
Work Hard and Study Hard said:
loomixguy said:
Texan...you are forgetting (or Mayor Koch did) that over 7,000 Americans were lost in ONE EXERCISE in the ocean prior to the Normandy Invasion.

Or the thousands lost on the Bataan Death March, both American and Filipino, to the bloodthirsty and brutal Japanese.

But maybe kolanuraven "supports the troops"?!? :???:

I forgot, supporting the troops is code for sending more to get killed. It's hard to cut through the BS on both sides of the aisle but even harder on this message board.

You ever considered sending more over might mean less are killed? You act like they all line up along the road for a shooting gallery so more mean more dead.

It does not work like that. Sometimes a certain number of people are needed to perform a job correctly. Maybe if one group clears a town and then another group stays and makes sure the bad guys do not come back and as a result the first group does not have to come back and fight in that town again 6 months later, lives might be saved.

Is it that hard to realize that more might actually save lives? Not cause more deaths? Maybe soldiers will get more rest now, more down time to sleep so they are more alert when on missions.

I can give you numerous reasons why more soldiers might save lives, can you give me any why more will die because of it?
 
aplusmnt said:
Work Hard and Study Hard said:
loomixguy said:
Texan...you are forgetting (or Mayor Koch did) that over 7,000 Americans were lost in ONE EXERCISE in the ocean prior to the Normandy Invasion.

Or the thousands lost on the Bataan Death March, both American and Filipino, to the bloodthirsty and brutal Japanese.

But maybe kolanuraven "supports the troops"?!? :???:

I forgot, supporting the troops is code for sending more to get killed. It's hard to cut through the BS on both sides of the aisle but even harder on this message board.

You ever considered sending more over might mean less are killed? You act like they all line up along the road for a shooting gallery so more mean more dead.

It does not work like that. Sometimes a certain number of people are needed to perform a job correctly. Maybe if one group clears a town and then another group stays and makes sure the bad guys do not come back and as a result the first group does not have to come back and fight in that town again 6 months later, lives might be saved.

Is it that hard to realize that more might actually save lives? Not cause more deaths? Maybe soldiers will get more rest now, more down time to sleep so they are more alert when on missions.

I can give you numerous reasons why more soldiers might save lives, can you give me any why more will die because of it?

1. Because 20,000 isn't enough to make a difference
2. Because other countries are pulling out thus part of the "surge" will be used to take up their slack.
3. Hell why not send 2 million, do you honestly think that if we send 20,000 more troops these people will just say, "We'll I guess were licked now. Let's vote in an orderly manner". And then Shiites and Sunnis walk arm and arm skipping all the way to the voting booth. It's like if I was feeding my cows 2 bales a day but bump it up to 3 while I should be giving them 10. The moral of the story is if you can't give them 10 then you shouldn't have any cows at all. If we can only give Iraq 2 or 3 bales we shouldn't be in the cattle business anymore.

I tied this to a ranching theme so I hope I didn't lose you.
 
Work Hard and Study Hard said:
aplusmnt said:
Work Hard and Study Hard said:
I forgot, supporting the troops is code for sending more to get killed. It's hard to cut through the BS on both sides of the aisle but even harder on this message board.

You ever considered sending more over might mean less are killed? You act like they all line up along the road for a shooting gallery so more mean more dead.

It does not work like that. Sometimes a certain number of people are needed to perform a job correctly. Maybe if one group clears a town and then another group stays and makes sure the bad guys do not come back and as a result the first group does not have to come back and fight in that town again 6 months later, lives might be saved.

Is it that hard to realize that more might actually save lives? Not cause more deaths? Maybe soldiers will get more rest now, more down time to sleep so they are more alert when on missions.

I can give you numerous reasons why more soldiers might save lives, can you give me any why more will die because of it?

1. Because 20,000 isn't enough to make a difference
2. Because other countries are pulling out thus part of the "surge" will be used to take up their slack.
3. Hell why not send 2 million, do you honestly think that if we send 20,000 more troops these people will just say, "We'll I guess were licked now. Let's vote in an orderly manner". And then Shiites and Sunnis walk arm and arm skipping all the way to the voting booth. It's like if I was feeding my cows 2 bales a day but bump it up to 3 while I should be giving them 10. The moral of the story is if you can't give them 10 then you shouldn't have any cows at all. If we can only give Iraq 2 or 3 bales we shouldn't be in the cattle business anymore.

I tied this to a ranching theme so I hope I didn't lose you.

How do you know 20,000 is not enough to make a difference????????

I will tie this to common sense theme, so I hope I do not loose you.

If 20,000 troops get more rest, then lives can be saved. If a couple thousand other countries troops leave (which most are saying by end of year not tomorrow) that still leaves 18,000 more troops to relieve or help the existing troops.

And to go back to your Cattle example if you fed that one more bale of hay would your net gain not be more than if you never fed it even if 10 is needed? In case I am loosing you here, would not less cows die eating 3 bales versus 2 bales regardless of the fact you should be giving them 10? Would it not be better to give the troops that extra bale of hay so less soldiers die then?

Is not a couple soldiers lives worth an extra bale of hay a day to you?

Well I have to go tie up a show steer and check the cows for calves, got a few heifers still due. Shouldn't you get back to checking grampa's cows? He might get mad if he knows you are in here on computer while he is paying you to watch the cows. :wink:

Ps. What kind of cattleman are you that you would only feed 2 or 3 bales of hay when they need 10? You should spend less time on computer and more tending them cows, you might get fired and have to find a job in town or something :lol:
 
Texan said:
Will Embarrassing the President Make Us Safer?
By Ed Koch


Over the last few years I have written of my fears that we Americans, as a people, have lost our will to fight for our freedom.

We have come to expect that wars can be fought without casualties, even the relatively modest casualties we have suffered in Iraq. During World War Two, more Americans were killed or wounded on Iwo Jima in one month than have fallen in Iraq in almost four years. Of course, every military death and severe injury is a tragedy. Nevertheless, former Secretary of State Colin Powell has said that our army in Iraq is "about broken," which appalled and frightened me. Added to those two disturbing dangers to our national security is a new and third factor: denial of a military threat to our armed forces. Such a denial allows us to avoid addressing the threat with an appropriate military response.

We are not at war with Iran, but Iran seems to be at war with us. In the last year we have suffered at least 170 American military deaths in Iraq and 640 American soldiers have been injured as a result of Iranian manufactured and supplied explosives supplied to Iraqi insurgents and terrorists. These explosives are planted at the side of the road and are activated when U.S. military vehicles pass by. They are especially dangerous because their high technology design allows them to penetrate armored vehicles and kill and maim the occupants.

All American leaders, including the President, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, and Chairman of the Joint chiefs of Staff, General Peter Pace, agree that these weapons are manufactured in Iran. They are provided to Iraqi insurgents and terrorists by an Iranian military unit known as the Quds Force. What we are not able to state with certainty is whether, according to The New York Times, "senior leaders of Iran's government are directly involved in the attacks."

The Times states, "Based on evidence gathered inside Iraq, American intelligence analysts have concluded that a branch of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps known as the Quds Force is supplying Shiite groups with Iranian-designed weapons, called explosively formed penetrators."

The Times reported, "Because the Quds Force, which operates outside Iran, has historically fallen under the command of Iran's senior religious leaders, intelligence agencies have concluded that top leaders in Tehran are directing the attacks."

General Peter Pace is quoted in The Times as saying "that American forces had confirmed that some bomb materials found inside Iraq were made in Iran, but 'that does not translate that the Iranian government per se, for sure, is directly involved in doing this.'"

The Times points out the [Iranian revolutionary] "Guard has also been accused of supporting terrorist attacks outside Iran, notably the 1996 truck bomb attack on the Khobar Towers complex in Saudi Arabia that killed 19 American service members. In December, a federal judge ruled that the government of Iran bore responsibility for the Khobar Towers attack and ordered Tehran to pay survivors of those killed more than $253 million."

So what do we know with certainty? There are those in Iran, on a significant scale, supplying Iraqi insurgents and terrorists with deadly bombs responsible for killing and injuring 820 American soldiers in the last year. Is it reasonable to believe that is possible without the approval of sectors of the Iranian government? I refer to the civil government of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the theocratic and supreme government of the religious leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the dominant government official.

In dictatorships where dissidents seek to engage in activities prohibited by the state, those so engaged usually end up on the gallows. They are enemies of the state. It is beyond the realm of common sense to believe the Iranian government is aware of the supply activity as it is, the U.S. having made it public on several occasions, and is neither actively or passively, and knowledgably engaged in that activity. In fascist, Nazi, communist, theocratic and totalitarian states that extensively control the lives and political conduct of their citizens, there is very little crime, and practically zero crime against the state.

The Times reports why the Iranian government is engaging in this kind of behavior, writing, "Still American intelligence agencies have concluded that over the past year the Iranian government had adopted a new policy of directly confronting the United States inside Iraq. The policy officials assess is aimed partly at raising the cost of American involvement in the Middle East, teaching the Bush administration a lesson about the cost of regime change and putting pressure on American forces to leave.

"But another reason, they say, is to dissuade the Bush administration from taking a more confrontational policy toward Tehran by sending a message that Iran can ratchet up the attacks on American forces in Iraq."

It appears that Iran has succeeded in staring us down and preventing us from taking appropriate military action to protect our troops and punish those seeking to harm them. Iran will not be required to pay a price because our army is "about broken" and is not capable of responding. How awful and unnerving for the U.S., the sole remaining superpower in the world.

Democrats and some Republicans in Congress are seeking to humble, embarrass and, if they can, destroy the President and the prestige of his position as the Commander-in-Chief who is responsible for the safety of our military forces and the nation's defenses. By doing so, they are adding to the dangers that face our nation. And so I ask again them again: do you think that leaving a power vacuum in Iraq will make us safer? If, as a result of the power vacuum, the terrorists are emboldened and God forbid we sustain here in the U.S. civilian casualties comparable to those caused in Iraq by car bombs, will you publicly accept responsibility?


Ed Koch is the former (democrat) Mayor of New York City.

I'm sorry but I can't understand why the right always wants to compare apples to oranges. During WWII, we were attacked by one NATION and had another one declare war on us a few days later. We went to war to defend ourselves. I don't care if it was 10 million deaths to 1, the fact of the matter is that our war with Iraq should never have taken place and it did through bad decision making and even worse planning. When one American soldier has to die it is horrible and when one has to die because of lies and/or mistakes that no one would admit to and correct, then it is bordering on criminality.
 
Texan said:
Will Embarrassing the President Make Us Safer?
By Ed Koch


Over the last few years I have written of my fears that we Americans, as a people, have lost our will to fight for our freedom.

We have come to expect that wars can be fought without casualties, even the relatively modest casualties we have suffered in Iraq. During World War Two, more Americans were killed or wounded on Iwo Jima in one month than have fallen in Iraq in almost four years. Of course, every military death and severe injury is a tragedy. Nevertheless, former Secretary of State Colin Powell has said that our army in Iraq is "about broken," which appalled and frightened me. Added to those two disturbing dangers to our national security is a new and third factor: denial of a military threat to our armed forces. Such a denial allows us to avoid addressing the threat with an appropriate military response.

We are not at war with Iran, but Iran seems to be at war with us. In the last year we have suffered at least 170 American military deaths in Iraq and 640 American soldiers have been injured as a result of Iranian manufactured and supplied explosives supplied to Iraqi insurgents and terrorists. These explosives are planted at the side of the road and are activated when U.S. military vehicles pass by. They are especially dangerous because their high technology design allows them to penetrate armored vehicles and kill and maim the occupants.

All American leaders, including the President, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, and Chairman of the Joint chiefs of Staff, General Peter Pace, agree that these weapons are manufactured in Iran. They are provided to Iraqi insurgents and terrorists by an Iranian military unit known as the Quds Force. What we are not able to state with certainty is whether, according to The New York Times, "senior leaders of Iran's government are directly involved in the attacks."

The Times states, "Based on evidence gathered inside Iraq, American intelligence analysts have concluded that a branch of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps known as the Quds Force is supplying Shiite groups with Iranian-designed weapons, called explosively formed penetrators."

The Times reported, "Because the Quds Force, which operates outside Iran, has historically fallen under the command of Iran's senior religious leaders, intelligence agencies have concluded that top leaders in Tehran are directing the attacks."

General Peter Pace is quoted in The Times as saying "that American forces had confirmed that some bomb materials found inside Iraq were made in Iran, but 'that does not translate that the Iranian government per se, for sure, is directly involved in doing this.'"

The Times points out the [Iranian revolutionary] "Guard has also been accused of supporting terrorist attacks outside Iran, notably the 1996 truck bomb attack on the Khobar Towers complex in Saudi Arabia that killed 19 American service members. In December, a federal judge ruled that the government of Iran bore responsibility for the Khobar Towers attack and ordered Tehran to pay survivors of those killed more than $253 million."

So what do we know with certainty? There are those in Iran, on a significant scale, supplying Iraqi insurgents and terrorists with deadly bombs responsible for killing and injuring 820 American soldiers in the last year. Is it reasonable to believe that is possible without the approval of sectors of the Iranian government? I refer to the civil government of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the theocratic and supreme government of the religious leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the dominant government official.

In dictatorships where dissidents seek to engage in activities prohibited by the state, those so engaged usually end up on the gallows. They are enemies of the state. It is beyond the realm of common sense to believe the Iranian government is aware of the supply activity as it is, the U.S. having made it public on several occasions, and is neither actively or passively, and knowledgably engaged in that activity. In fascist, Nazi, communist, theocratic and totalitarian states that extensively control the lives and political conduct of their citizens, there is very little crime, and practically zero crime against the state.

The Times reports why the Iranian government is engaging in this kind of behavior, writing, "Still American intelligence agencies have concluded that over the past year the Iranian government had adopted a new policy of directly confronting the United States inside Iraq. The policy officials assess is aimed partly at raising the cost of American involvement in the Middle East, teaching the Bush administration a lesson about the cost of regime change and putting pressure on American forces to leave.

"But another reason, they say, is to dissuade the Bush administration from taking a more confrontational policy toward Tehran by sending a message that Iran can ratchet up the attacks on American forces in Iraq."

It appears that Iran has succeeded in staring us down and preventing us from taking appropriate military action to protect our troops and punish those seeking to harm them. Iran will not be required to pay a price because our army is "about broken" and is not capable of responding. How awful and unnerving for the U.S., the sole remaining superpower in the world.

Democrats and some Republicans in Congress are seeking to humble, embarrass and, if they can, destroy the President and the prestige of his position as the Commander-in-Chief who is responsible for the safety of our military forces and the nation's defenses. By doing so, they are adding to the dangers that face our nation. And so I ask again them again: do you think that leaving a power vacuum in Iraq will make us safer? If, as a result of the power vacuum, the terrorists are emboldened and God forbid we sustain here in the U.S. civilian casualties comparable to those caused in Iraq by car bombs, will you publicly accept responsibility?


Ed Koch is the former (democrat) Mayor of New York City.

I'm sorry but I can't understand why the right always wants to compare apples to oranges. During WWII, we were attacked by one NATION and had another one declare war on us a few days later. We went to war to defend ourselves. I don't care if it was 10 million deaths to 1, the fact of the matter is that our war with Iraq should never have taken place and it did through bad decision making and even worse planning. When one American soldier has to die it is horrible and when one has to die because of lies and/or mistakes that no one would admit to and correct, then it is bordering on criminality.
 
aplusmnt said:
Work Hard and Study Hard said:
aplusmnt said:
You ever considered sending more over might mean less are killed? You act like they all line up along the road for a shooting gallery so more mean more dead.

It does not work like that. Sometimes a certain number of people are needed to perform a job correctly. Maybe if one group clears a town and then another group stays and makes sure the bad guys do not come back and as a result the first group does not have to come back and fight in that town again 6 months later, lives might be saved.

Is it that hard to realize that more might actually save lives? Not cause more deaths? Maybe soldiers will get more rest now, more down time to sleep so they are more alert when on missions.

I can give you numerous reasons why more soldiers might save lives, can you give me any why more will die because of it?

1. Because 20,000 isn't enough to make a difference
2. Because other countries are pulling out thus part of the "surge" will be used to take up their slack.
3. Hell why not send 2 million, do you honestly think that if we send 20,000 more troops these people will just say, "We'll I guess were licked now. Let's vote in an orderly manner". And then Shiites and Sunnis walk arm and arm skipping all the way to the voting booth. It's like if I was feeding my cows 2 bales a day but bump it up to 3 while I should be giving them 10. The moral of the story is if you can't give them 10 then you shouldn't have any cows at all. If we can only give Iraq 2 or 3 bales we shouldn't be in the cattle business anymore.

I tied this to a ranching theme so I hope I didn't lose you.

How do you know 20,000 is not enough to make a difference????????

I will tie this to common sense theme, so I hope I do not loose you.

If 20,000 troops get more rest, then lives can be saved. If a couple thousand other countries troops leave (which most are saying by end of year not tomorrow) that still leaves 18,000 more troops to relieve or help the existing troops.

And to go back to your Cattle example if you fed that one more bale of hay would your net gain not be more than if you never fed it even if 10 is needed? In case I am loosing you here, would not less cows die eating 3 bales versus 2 bales regardless of the fact you should be giving them 10? Would it not be better to give the troops that extra bale of hay so less soldiers die then?

Is not a couple soldiers lives worth an extra bale of hay a day to you?

Well I have to go tie up a show steer and check the cows for calves, got a few heifers still due. Shouldn't you get back to checking grampa's cows? He might get mad if he knows you are in here on computer while he is paying you to watch the cows. :wink:

Ps. What kind of cattleman are you that you would only feed 2 or 3 bales of hay when they need 10? You should spend less time on computer and more tending them cows, you might get fired and have to find a job in town or something :lol:

Loose me? I think you meant lose but the term you chose is fitting of you. I thought this was easy to comprehend but you really are a complete idiot. feeding a herd that needs 10 bales per day 3 will result in most of the cattle dieing of hunger, feeding them 4 will only prolong the death. Just like in Iraq sending 20,000 troops will just prolong the war and the losing outcome will be the same. I don't know if you and your friends think it's funny but we buried our last grandfather 5 years ago, frankly i'm puzzled how my grandparents who had been out of the cattle business for 20 years somehow find their way into biting attacks at myself. It's rude, and below the belt and I expect an apology. I'm sure they both saw the cows were fed and are well taken care of.

By the way:

"What kind of cattleman are you that you would only feed 2 or 3 bales of hay when they need 10?"

Thanks for making my point on Iraq.
 
WHSH...the reason probably that your granparents success is brought up in such a spiteful way is that these people are jealous of your family's success. I don't have a clue who you really are but a lot of these folks seem to know you.

They keep making snotty remarks about show cattle/steers etc knowing full well that if it were not for the show circuits and the people who work them, these folks would not have those ' soggy" calves to brag about as the better genetics would go unknown to most of these yahoo's. ( Some one pleeeeeeaaase tell me where in the hell ' soggy' came from and what it means???)

And my final point is that they can't stay on point because they take that time for making snide remarks !!!


Damn, damn, double damn, hell....I bet TeXan is gonna want me to move this to Ranch Talk!!!! :roll: :roll:
 
kolanuraven said:
WHSH...the reason probably that your granparents success is brought up in such a spiteful way is that these people are jealous of your family's success. I don't have a clue who you really are but a lot of these folks seem to know you.


yep
some of them know WHSH for what IT is, just as most of us KNOW you for what you are! CLUELESS :( :( :( and that is sad because both of you could make a positive statement if you were not so tunnel visioned!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They keep making snotty remarks about show cattle/steers etc knowing full well that if it were not for the show circuits and the people who work them, these folks would not have those ' soggy" calves to brag about as the better genetics would go unknown to most of these yahoo's. ( Some one pleeeeeeaaase tell me where in the hell ' soggy' came from and what it means???)

KAKA it was WHSH that brought up the snide remarks about the show cattle people


Damn, damn, double damn, hell....I bet TeXan is gonna want me to move this to Ranch Talk!!!! :roll: :roll:


i doubt that will happen because you have nothing to offer RANCH TALK!

opps forgot you have nothing to offer Po;itical Bull either :D :D :D
 
Work Hard and Study Hard said:
Loose me? I think you meant lose but the term you chose is fitting of you. I thought this was easy to comprehend but you really are a complete idiot. feeding a herd that needs 10 bales per day 3 will result in most of the cattle dieing of hunger, feeding them 4 will only prolong the death. Just like in Iraq sending 20,000 troops will just prolong the war and the losing outcome will be the same. I don't know if you and your friends think it's funny but we buried our last grandfather 5 years ago, frankly i'm puzzled how my grandparents who had been out of the cattle business for 20 years somehow find their way into biting attacks at myself. It's rude, and below the belt and I expect an apology. I'm sure they both saw the cows were fed and are well taken care of.

By the way:

"What kind of cattleman are you that you would only feed 2 or 3 bales of hay when they need 10?"

Thanks for making my point on Iraq.

Quite the Drama queen aren't we? I have no idea if or when your grandfather died. Point is you make a comment that I should find some other message board because my children show calves (which still makes no sense to me). That is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard anyone say on here.

Point about your grandfather is someone made reference that you run some other family members cattle for them not those that you bought yourself. Rather that is true I do not care because I am not the one telling you to go find some other message board.

Cowboy up and quit being such a baby, my grandfather died less than 5 years ago and I am not some girly man about it!

And before calling me an idiot you should give some thought to how stupid it is to assume that 20,000 more troops would not help save lives of the existing troops in Iraq. Please explain how more will die just because more are there? Does it not make sense to you that more rest, less missions, more back up, more containment could actually help save the lives of those troops in the field currently? Could not one more tank being in a fight help save lives of those fighting the battle? Would not maybe one more helicopter with Missile's maybe help save more ground soldiers?

You are mixing your feelings of rather we should be there in the first place with reason of rather more back up can actually help the current soldiers.

I doubt many soldiers in battle when faced with the enemy ever said please do not send us more help we do not want more soldiers to die!
 
kolanuraven said:
They keep making snotty remarks about show cattle/steers etc knowing full well that if it were not for the show circuits and the people who work them, these folks would not have those ' soggy" calves to brag about as the better genetics would go unknown to most of these yahoo's. ( Some one pleeeeeeaaase tell me where in the hell ' soggy' came from and what it means???)

I think you got this backwards WHSH is the one that brought up the Snotty remarks about show calves. For some reason he thinks I should not be on this message board because my Kids show animals. His family was brought up in the conversation because he is implying he belongs here but I do not. So his ranching status got brought into question because he questioned the validity of someone else, that being me.

In other words he was instructed to watch calling the Kettle Black and playing Ranchers.net God deciding as to who is worth of posting here and who is not. I guess he is Ranch Sheriff, going to run all of us with some show calves out of town.

As for Soggy, I often wondered that same thing, I always used deep sided, deep bodied. Some Livestock Judge probably came up with it to create a new word to make themselves stand out.

I know when I got to college it was a whole new world in terminology with Judging and that was over 20 years ago. I can only imagine some of the terms those kids are using nowadays.
 
aplusmnt said:
Work Hard and Study Hard said:
Loose me? I think you meant lose but the term you chose is fitting of you. I thought this was easy to comprehend but you really are a complete idiot. feeding a herd that needs 10 bales per day 3 will result in most of the cattle dieing of hunger, feeding them 4 will only prolong the death. Just like in Iraq sending 20,000 troops will just prolong the war and the losing outcome will be the same. I don't know if you and your friends think it's funny but we buried our last grandfather 5 years ago, frankly i'm puzzled how my grandparents who had been out of the cattle business for 20 years somehow find their way into biting attacks at myself. It's rude, and below the belt and I expect an apology. I'm sure they both saw the cows were fed and are well taken care of.

By the way:

"What kind of cattleman are you that you would only feed 2 or 3 bales of hay when they need 10?"

Thanks for making my point on Iraq.

Quite the Drama queen aren't we? I have no idea if or when your grandfather died. Point is you make a comment that I should find some other message board because my children show calves (which still makes no sense to me). That is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard anyone say on here.

Point about your grandfather is someone made reference that you run some other family members cattle for them not those that you bought yourself. Rather that is true I do not care because I am not the one telling you to go find some other message board.

Cowboy up and quit being such a baby, my grandfather died less than 5 years ago and I am not some girly man about it!

And before calling me an idiot you should give some thought to how stupid it is to assume that 20,000 more troops would not help save lives of the existing troops in Iraq. Please explain how more will die just because more are there? Does it not make sense to you that more rest, less missions, more back up, more containment could actually help save the lives of those troops in the field currently? Could not one more tank being in a fight help save lives of those fighting the battle? Would not maybe one more helicopter with Missile's maybe help save more ground soldiers?

You are mixing your feelings of rather we should be there in the first place with reason of rather more back up can actually help the current soldiers.

I doubt many soldiers in battle when faced with the enemy ever said please do not send us more help we do not want more soldiers to die!


Aplus you call him a girly man? ......Why not take your own advice and walk your talk.....I am sure the troops could use a good cook like you or janitor in Iraq supporting them,since your to pussy to walk your talk.They may find you a non combat job there.You also try to demean peoples lifes here,yet you wont walk your own talk...Your the one writing the hate and screaming to kill all muslims,yet you do nothing but sit at home.Letting young men and women fight for you as you eat your dinner in a warm safe place..Then you come on here and tell others to man up....Are you Joking?You are the last person on here that should call anyone a girly man,unless of course,you are looking into a mirror..........YA,YA,A,I know you think I should worry about Canada,no need to repeat for the 1000 time,just cause your at a loss for words.

PS...YA,YA,YA I know you support the troops...I am sure you turn in to fox tv everynight,as you enjoy a nice bowl of icecream as you sit and watch the nights war footage,all the while telling yourself that you are supporting the troops from your comfy couch ...
 
Frankk said:
Is putting the wounded in building eighteen and then claim they caused the rats and roaches supporting the troops?
Frank, I saw that on the news last night about Building 18. This is an issue that we can ALL surely agree on. It is despicable to think that our wounded service people would be stashed away in a place like that.

They deserve a first class place with somebody to wait on them hand and foot. They deserve the very BEST that this country can provide for them. They DON'T deserve that dump. :mad:
 

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