Muratic, judging by your web name,are you knowledgeable about Muriatic acid? I have a concrete hog waterer about 18 inches square by about 8 inches tall and I would sure like to get rid of it as it is right in the way. I have tried muriatic acid that I bought at the local farm store but it didn't do anything except turn the concrete yellow looking. I was wondering if there are stronger versions of the same stuff?Muratic said:
winter is closing in whats your plan for wintering cows
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TSR,
Recentally removed a feed trough in my barn that was concrete. I rented a jack hammer and chipped it out. Might be just as easy for you to rent a concrete saw and make several cuts along the entire waterer than chip the pieces out with a spud bar.
I have only seen muriatic acid used to clean the concrete in dairy barns, not to remove it.
Recentally removed a feed trough in my barn that was concrete. I rented a jack hammer and chipped it out. Might be just as easy for you to rent a concrete saw and make several cuts along the entire waterer than chip the pieces out with a spud bar.
I have only seen muriatic acid used to clean the concrete in dairy barns, not to remove it.
cowzilla
Well-known member
kato just let my limos into 5 acres of corn. I can't see them but I can hear them. By the way I just shipped 3 pot loads of heifers to Colorad
ur American neighbors where very generous with there prices.
ur American neighbors where very generous with there prices.
A
Anonymous
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PPRM,
I was not implying that how we winter cows is anything new, as lots of ranches around here do the same thing. The cube is really made for situations where feeding other ways are not handy. Feeding cake on stubble wouldn't work well, as the cattle would tromp it into the ground. You would need a soddy area to feed in.
Some ranches around here just own a feeding tractor for when they do feed hay, and don't put up a lick of hay. They are the operations that feed a lot of cake.
Not saying it wouldn't work other ways, but it is a convenience feed as much as anything. You are buying the processing.
I was not implying that how we winter cows is anything new, as lots of ranches around here do the same thing. The cube is really made for situations where feeding other ways are not handy. Feeding cake on stubble wouldn't work well, as the cattle would tromp it into the ground. You would need a soddy area to feed in.
Some ranches around here just own a feeding tractor for when they do feed hay, and don't put up a lick of hay. They are the operations that feed a lot of cake.
Not saying it wouldn't work other ways, but it is a convenience feed as much as anything. You are buying the processing.
Cal
Well-known member
Have good winter grazing if it don't snow and crust over. Put up lots of hay this summer; hay millet, alfalfa, meadows and prairie hay. Will wean first bunch of calves pretty soon and feed them a ground hay mixture and DDG, which keeps getting cheaper, but might run them on some stubble regrowth for a while.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
Just bought in a few hundre tonnes of grass/alf hay for about $35/ U.S.a tonne delivered-pretty good hay-no rain on it-so i guess thats a few thousand pails of pellets I woin't have to pail this winter lol.
Faster horses
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Jersey Lily, I noticed your feed analysis read 70% protein. The next line said 64% of that was from urea. Many nutritionists throw out any protein that is from urea when figuring crude protein in a ration. So that would leave your feed with only 6% protein. That is partly why the cost is low.
Now maybe in Texas adding urea isn't quite as bad a deal as in in the north, but I would check on it if I were you. Here urea is basically worthless. Not enough energy for the cow to utilize it. Perhaps in Texas it works better because energy is not such an issue due to warmer temps.
Now maybe in Texas adding urea isn't quite as bad a deal as in in the north, but I would check on it if I were you. Here urea is basically worthless. Not enough energy for the cow to utilize it. Perhaps in Texas it works better because energy is not such an issue due to warmer temps.
Jinglebob
Well-known member
Back to Haymakers question, my cows will get extruded soybeans, mixed with salt for a limiter so as to eat 1 to 1.25 pounds a day. They will graze left over grass from the summer. If the grass snows over, they will get about 20 pounds of hay. Hay cost $60 a ton, laid in. On cold days, 0 or below, they will eat more grass or get a little more hay.
A cow in good flesh is hot on any day over 18 degrees. But wind does make a difference. We have a creek with lots of trees and shelterbelts for the cows to get behind when it's windy.
I have a windmill that, if it's running, the water coming out of the ground would be at 45 to 50 degrees. Them cows sure like that water. Any water that isn't frozen is at least 33 degrees.
Grass on this place will vary from 2% to 15% protein.
Hay will run about 12 to 14%.
A cow needs 2% of her body weight to maintain and 3% to gain. A 1000 pound cow would need 20 pound of dry matter to maintain. 30 to gain.
Cows in the middle trimester only need 10 to 11% protein a day. Cows in the final trimester need 14% protein a day. Cows who have just calved need 22%.
Lots of fellers around here, waste money on too much protein. Cold cows need energy, not protein.
As for the bugs in the gut, I am a believer in that theroy. Extuded soybeans either keep the right bugs in or it doesn't take as much, to work for a cow, so it doesn't screw up their rumen bugs.
Easiest cows I ever wintered went into the late fall thin. We had lots of old dead grass and we had self feeders out with bean and salt. Cows ate a pound a day and fattened up. Cost $5 a had a month for feed and they delivered and provided the feeders.
Extruded bean will cost around $400 a ton, but a ton goes a long way.
Extruded bean is around 12% fat and 40% protein.
Of course, my cows ain't purty, so I don't know if this would work for all of you guys, "fancy" cows. :lol:
A cow in good flesh is hot on any day over 18 degrees. But wind does make a difference. We have a creek with lots of trees and shelterbelts for the cows to get behind when it's windy.
I have a windmill that, if it's running, the water coming out of the ground would be at 45 to 50 degrees. Them cows sure like that water. Any water that isn't frozen is at least 33 degrees.
Grass on this place will vary from 2% to 15% protein.
Hay will run about 12 to 14%.
A cow needs 2% of her body weight to maintain and 3% to gain. A 1000 pound cow would need 20 pound of dry matter to maintain. 30 to gain.
Cows in the middle trimester only need 10 to 11% protein a day. Cows in the final trimester need 14% protein a day. Cows who have just calved need 22%.
Lots of fellers around here, waste money on too much protein. Cold cows need energy, not protein.
As for the bugs in the gut, I am a believer in that theroy. Extuded soybeans either keep the right bugs in or it doesn't take as much, to work for a cow, so it doesn't screw up their rumen bugs.
Easiest cows I ever wintered went into the late fall thin. We had lots of old dead grass and we had self feeders out with bean and salt. Cows ate a pound a day and fattened up. Cost $5 a had a month for feed and they delivered and provided the feeders.
Extruded bean will cost around $400 a ton, but a ton goes a long way.
Extruded bean is around 12% fat and 40% protein.
Of course, my cows ain't purty, so I don't know if this would work for all of you guys, "fancy" cows. :lol:
the_jersey_lilly_2000
Well-known member
Faster Horses,
If I'm reading the Bag Tag right the first list of ingredients is the Protein Supplement, which is only 3% of the total mixture. for some reason it doesn't give me a breakdown of the protein content of the corn rice and cotton seed meal. I will be calling them and asking this question when I order for this next set of heifers she'll be raising.
Look at the second list where it's noted with a *
If I'm reading the Bag Tag right the first list of ingredients is the Protein Supplement, which is only 3% of the total mixture. for some reason it doesn't give me a breakdown of the protein content of the corn rice and cotton seed meal. I will be calling them and asking this question when I order for this next set of heifers she'll be raising.
Look at the second list where it's noted with a *
Jason
Well-known member
This thread is exactly why the cattle industry will never be chickenized. Look at the diverse ways we all can get a similar job done.
In the deep South grass tends to grow fast and can head fast and can deteriorate fast. Most cows need some sort of winter suppliment. Many use the rye grass option as it will grow all "winter" there. I use the winter term loosely as it is usually warmer there in the winter than some of us get in the summer.
A lot of the Bermuda grass put up as hay looks great, but feed analysis shows low protien (6-9%), and high fiber. Many producers use a lick tank or tubs for ease of delivery, they have off farm jobs and see the cows 1-2 times per week.
Soymeal at 47% protien is usually the cheapest natural protien source in the South, but many get hung up on this protien thing thinking it is all important. A cow can substitute energy for protien. Hand feeding 1/2 pound of soymeal with 3 pounds of shell corn is all the suppliment all but the thinest cows would need. It also works out to be one of the cheapest ways to suppliment.
Farther North, I.E Nebraska sandhills, grass is plentyful but when it dries off is just like straw. Haying like Soapweed does puts up all kinds of roughage with nearly enough food value for cows. If some alfalfa was added to the ration, the cows would need no extra feed. Sometimes a 'cake' or soymeal based pellet is cheaper than alfalfa (per pound of protien). Some producers just feed extra 'cake' instead of pricing corn or mixing corn with the soy. To each his own, but savings can be found.
In the really cold climes, like Montana, Alberta, Sask etc. we rely more on higher quality hays like alfalfa or alfalfa grass mixes. More bedding is used, straw from cereal production and cows tend to eat some of that as it generates heat to digest. Grain suppliments like barley are more common if the alfalfa is poor or got cut late and has lower protien. Much hay in our area will test 15% or better. No suppliments needed for most cows.
Putting a pencil to all feedstuffs make life interesting, and Urea comes in as the cheapest of all protien sources. However it has to be fed with extreme caution and can only make up some of the cows protien requirements. Most of it is digested as by-pass protien. It tests at roughly 281% protien. Too much will kill a cow. Saying it has no value is wrong, it just needs to be understood. Extra energy will be needed to help utilize it.
Brewers grains, distillers grains have had much of the energy taken from them and the protien really climbs. Some have cheap or even free sources of these and they can really be used to cheapen rations. You can feed cows easily 10 pounds or more of this feed with some low quality hay and they do well.
Other feed sources like breadstuffs, beet tops, potatoes, vegetable wastes etc. all have value if transportation costs aren't too high and a steady supply is available.
I have thoroughly enjoyed learning how others feed their cows. Pricing different rations for some, and seeing how good cattle will thrive anywhere they get proper nutrition.
Basically if you can feed your cattle for less than you sell the progeny for, you are doing a good job.
In the deep South grass tends to grow fast and can head fast and can deteriorate fast. Most cows need some sort of winter suppliment. Many use the rye grass option as it will grow all "winter" there. I use the winter term loosely as it is usually warmer there in the winter than some of us get in the summer.
A lot of the Bermuda grass put up as hay looks great, but feed analysis shows low protien (6-9%), and high fiber. Many producers use a lick tank or tubs for ease of delivery, they have off farm jobs and see the cows 1-2 times per week.
Soymeal at 47% protien is usually the cheapest natural protien source in the South, but many get hung up on this protien thing thinking it is all important. A cow can substitute energy for protien. Hand feeding 1/2 pound of soymeal with 3 pounds of shell corn is all the suppliment all but the thinest cows would need. It also works out to be one of the cheapest ways to suppliment.
Farther North, I.E Nebraska sandhills, grass is plentyful but when it dries off is just like straw. Haying like Soapweed does puts up all kinds of roughage with nearly enough food value for cows. If some alfalfa was added to the ration, the cows would need no extra feed. Sometimes a 'cake' or soymeal based pellet is cheaper than alfalfa (per pound of protien). Some producers just feed extra 'cake' instead of pricing corn or mixing corn with the soy. To each his own, but savings can be found.
In the really cold climes, like Montana, Alberta, Sask etc. we rely more on higher quality hays like alfalfa or alfalfa grass mixes. More bedding is used, straw from cereal production and cows tend to eat some of that as it generates heat to digest. Grain suppliments like barley are more common if the alfalfa is poor or got cut late and has lower protien. Much hay in our area will test 15% or better. No suppliments needed for most cows.
Putting a pencil to all feedstuffs make life interesting, and Urea comes in as the cheapest of all protien sources. However it has to be fed with extreme caution and can only make up some of the cows protien requirements. Most of it is digested as by-pass protien. It tests at roughly 281% protien. Too much will kill a cow. Saying it has no value is wrong, it just needs to be understood. Extra energy will be needed to help utilize it.
Brewers grains, distillers grains have had much of the energy taken from them and the protien really climbs. Some have cheap or even free sources of these and they can really be used to cheapen rations. You can feed cows easily 10 pounds or more of this feed with some low quality hay and they do well.
Other feed sources like breadstuffs, beet tops, potatoes, vegetable wastes etc. all have value if transportation costs aren't too high and a steady supply is available.
I have thoroughly enjoyed learning how others feed their cows. Pricing different rations for some, and seeing how good cattle will thrive anywhere they get proper nutrition.
Basically if you can feed your cattle for less than you sell the progeny for, you are doing a good job.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Jason I have been offered about 2500 bu. of Lentil ,chickpea and pea screenings for $700. Not to long of a haul for me. I know a feed test should be done but do you have any experience feeding this stuff. i thought i could just pile it and add a bucket full when filling my mix wagon with my chopped green feed and chopped hay for the calves.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
Heck BMR you just got some real good deer bait-make sure you got cover about 100 yards from your pile.
Jason
Well-known member
I'd be all over that stuff. Lentils are excellent cow feed. The protien can be over 20%. Peas as well are high in protien, I have fed pea straw but not peas, although the cows would root for the peas in the straw.
The nice thing about lentils seems to be that cows will digest them without further processing. The peas might need to be cracked to maximize the feed value, but if you store them outside, moisture might soften them enough to do the trick, but then again at the price mentioned, who cares if you lose a bit of the value.
The nice thing about lentils seems to be that cows will digest them without further processing. The peas might need to be cracked to maximize the feed value, but if you store them outside, moisture might soften them enough to do the trick, but then again at the price mentioned, who cares if you lose a bit of the value.
Jinglebob
Well-known member
Juan said:Jason you are wrong about the half lb. soy meal and three lb.corn.Double the soy meal and burn the corn in your stove.
I got to agree with Juan on this one. The soy won't mess up the bugs like the corn will. Although if you feed ear corn you don't need a feedbunk if the ground is frozen. I've fed shell corn on sod and frozen ground. It worked out to be cheaper than feeding ear corn, even with some waste.
I used to feed ear corn with an old manure spreader and a team of horses. Just run the floor conveyer and not the beaters.
Jason & BMr talking about lentils,got me to remembering about peanut hay,I have had good luck feeding peanut hay and lil fun pulling those raw peanuts outa it and eating some myself,cows really like it and it's good feed...................good luck PS gotta be careful where you store it I believe every thing from hogs to deer will eat it.
got in on this a little bit late....
we pull the calves off sometime in the next month to month in a half now and then let the cows stay til the end of October to finish out the grazing season on the rented land and might leave the other cows on for another week or so. Cows come off and stay at the home place on brome hayfields for a month until ALL crops are out of the field and then electric fence goes up and they are out on stalks until they are done there. This year we planted some feed so they'll have that along with the stalks after the kill frost. They'll get DDGs (Dried Distillers Grain) all through the winter and spring while they are calving up to the day they are put back on grass.
we pull the calves off sometime in the next month to month in a half now and then let the cows stay til the end of October to finish out the grazing season on the rented land and might leave the other cows on for another week or so. Cows come off and stay at the home place on brome hayfields for a month until ALL crops are out of the field and then electric fence goes up and they are out on stalks until they are done there. This year we planted some feed so they'll have that along with the stalks after the kill frost. They'll get DDGs (Dried Distillers Grain) all through the winter and spring while they are calving up to the day they are put back on grass.
RobertMac
Well-known member
Finished planting about 3/4 of my winter feed before Rita gave me about 5" of rain...you must not be living right, Haymaker! I plant ryegrass, rye, and clover. My young bulls and meat steers get this full time(rotational grazed) as soon as it is grazable with free choice hay. Cows with their summer calves and exposed heifers are time limit rotational grazed one to three hours a day or every other day(depending on rate of growth) and free choice hay. Like Jason said, our best hay is not very good. In late Feb. or early March(when this pasture starts growing good) I wean calves and everything starts rotational grazing full time. Calves hardly care that they were weaned and cows start getting in shape for the next calf. The rest of the year on native summer grass.
I plant ryegrass, rye, and clover. My young bulls and meat steers get this full time(rotational grazed) as soon as it is grazable with free choice hay. Cows with their summer calves and exposed heifers are time limit rotational grazed one to three hours a day or every other day(depending on rate of growth) and free choice hay. Like Jason said, our best hay is not very good. In late Feb. or early March(when this pasture starts growing good) I wean calves and everything starts rotational grazing full time. Calves hardly care that they were weaned and cows start getting in shape for the next calf. The rest of the year on native summer grass.Jason
Well-known member
Juan said:Jason you are wrong about the half lb. soy meal and three lb.corn.Double the soy meal and burn the corn in your stove.
3 pounds of corn isn't enough to upset the balance of the rumen. 5 pounds might be pushing it, 7 is definately where you need to jump to 10 to balance it the other way.
Soymeal has starch same as corn, the TDN is almost equal, but is a far more expensive source of energy than corn.
I know this ration works as I have had a herd in Texas on it for 3 years.
Faster horses
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Jason, you are right on, especially with the energy.
One thing about soy, it doesn't take much and it's highly digestible.
You are pretty sharp, IMO.
One thing about soy, it doesn't take much and it's highly digestible.
You are pretty sharp, IMO.
