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Iraq is headed in the right direction, I have seen myself the improvement of the Iraqi Army and Iraqi Police, they believe in what they are doing. That's why they keep doing what they're doing even though many get killed. In case you forgot, Freedom isn't Free, unfortunately the cost is usually blood. If you haven't been to Iraq, if you haven't served there and seen first hand, if you only go by what you read then shut your pie hole. I've been there, I've seen it, we're doing the right thing.
 
Ben H said:
Iraq is headed in the right direction, I have seen myself the improvement of the Iraqi Army and Iraqi Police, they believe in what they are doing. That's why they keep doing what they're doing even though many get killed. In case you forgot, Freedom isn't Free, unfortunately the cost is usually blood. If you haven't been to Iraq, if you haven't served there and seen first hand, if you only go by what you read then shut your pie hole. I've been there, I've seen it, we're doing the right thing.
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Thank You Ben H--Thats what the local kids returning are saying too...They are all proud they have been able to do something to help a country again learn what freedom is......
 
Oldtimer said:
Ben H said:
Iraq is headed in the right direction, I have seen myself the improvement of the Iraqi Army and Iraqi Police, they believe in what they are doing. That's why they keep doing what they're doing even though many get killed. In case you forgot, Freedom isn't Free, unfortunately the cost is usually blood. If you haven't been to Iraq, if you haven't served there and seen first hand, if you only go by what you read then shut your pie hole. I've been there, I've seen it, we're doing the right thing.
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Thank You Ben H--Thats what the local kids returning are saying too...They are all proud they have been able to do something to help a country again learn what freedom is......
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Thanks from down here too Ben! Don't pay any attention to Dis. It/she/he is blinded by hatred.

The worst case of tunnel vision I ever seen.
 
Ben H said:
Iraq is headed in the right direction, I have seen myself the improvement of the Iraqi Army and Iraqi Police, they believe in what they are doing. That's why they keep doing what they're doing even though many get killed. In case you forgot, Freedom isn't Free, unfortunately the cost is usually blood. If you haven't been to Iraq, if you haven't served there and seen first hand, if you only go by what you read then shut your pie hole. I've been there, I've seen it, we're doing the right thing.
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I won't shut my pie hole. Rush Limbaugh hasn't been to Iraq. O'Rielly hasn't been to Iraq. And they don't hesitate to say stay the course, blah, blah. John Murtha has been to Iraq several times. He says we need to pull the troops out...ASAP.

The Iraqi people never asked the United States of American to invade their country so don't throw out the "Freedom isn't Free" mantra to me.

Some of the Iraqi police and Army are doing the right thing. But every day 10-15-30 people are pulled out of their homes and murdered by people in police or Army uniforms. Are they actually police? Who knows. There is no law in Iraq, except for the American military. There's no government in Iraq.
 
Red Robin said:
I answered it clearly and bluntly but you are too big of a coward to answer my question . Why? Afraid of looking silly?
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This was your answer?
Of course they'd be alive if they weren't dead you moron.
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That's not an answer. It's a joke. I don't think 35,000 dead human beings, men, woman, children, babies is funny.

So I'll keep asking. Would those 35,000+ dead Iraqis still be alive today if George W. Bush hadn't chosen to invade their country?

I'm answered several of your questions. No more until you answer this one. When you answer that one, no spin, no joke, we can continue.
 
Red Robin said:
I have no idea, you don't either. No one knows the future or how it would have worked out differently . I would assume that alot of the muslim violence would have rose to the forefront in a different way at a different time on different people. Could have been 35,000 Americans. I have no idea. Your question is silly. Obviously those the U.S. troops killed would have either lived or been killed or died a different way. War always has casualties. You peace people of the 60's just don't get it. We fight war to accomplish objectives. People die. What would the world look like without war? Tyrany by the most evil would certainly prevail. War is necessary to preserve our way of life and to provide the common defense is one of the most legitimate rights of a soverign nation.
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This was my answer. I said I have no idea. I said I would assume some muslim on muslim violence would have been the same somewould have been different and some might not have happened at all. I said obviously those that the U.S. troops killed would have either lived, been killed some other way or would have died natually.
You're slipping. You can act like you are in the cat bird seat if you like but I think Ben is the victor of this thread. He put you where you belong....nothing more than a hippy war protester. Just remember when you vote this fall folks what these liberals are. When you pull the lever for a deffacrat you're voting for someone like Dishonest.
 
Red Robin said:
This was my answer. I said I have no idea. I said I would assume some muslim on muslim violence would have been the same somewould have been different and some might not have happened at all. I said obviously those that the U.S. troops killed would have either lived, been killed some other way or would have died natually.
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You do know the answer. You know that most of them would be alive. And for all your professed "Christian" principals you lie. For the most part, the only people who killed Iraqis in Iraq was Saddam and his government. There wasn't "muslim on muslim violence" under his rule. Murdering Iraqis was his right, not others.

You're slipping. You can act like you are in the cat bird seat if you like but I think Ben is the victor of this thread. He put you where you belong....nothing more than a hippy war protester. Just remember when you vote this fall folks what these liberals are. When you pull the lever for a deffacrat you're voting for someone like Dishonest.
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I am in the catbird seat. :lol: You can't deny George W. Bush is responsible for the deaths of these Iraqis, and the almost 2500 young Americans. Ben hasn't "put me" anywhere. His attitude that it's no big deal if American soliders with emotional problems are sent off to war shows his lack of understanding. They not only can kill themselves, they are also a danger to others they work with. How would you like to be on patrol, knowing the guy who has your back is on Prozac?

And remember if you vote for a Republican, you're voting for corruption, record deficits, open borders, war, death, and lies. You call me dishonest, but most people on this board know that's not true. You may not like what I say, but I can defend it pretty well.
 
Red Robin said:
Disagreeable said:
You call me dishonest, but most people on this board know that's not true.
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I could run a poll and prove you wrong but that wouldn't be very nice of me. You know the truth. You just reject it.
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And what truth am I rejecting? Are you suggesting that if you ran a poll and the majority on this boad said I was dishonest, it would be true? ROTFLMAO! at that one! :lol: Show me where I've lied. I've posted lie after lie that George W. Bush has told the American people. You heard them. Is honesty not important to you? Or is it only important if it supports your beliefs?
 
Your poor husband. I wouldn't be married to you if you looked like Bathsheba and had the money of the Queen of England. You win by exhaustion. I'm out . You have soldiers coming on here saying it's going good. You say everyone knows you're honest then you say if we run a poll it wouldn't mean a thing. You've called the President a mass murderer then when pressed you can't provide why. You say Saddam was less evil than the current situation. You just have no credibility yet you don't intend to try to see the truth. think what you want.
 
Red Robin said:
Your poor husband. I wouldn't be married to you if you looked like Bathsheba and had the money of the Queen of England. You win by exhaustion. I'm out . You have soldiers coming on here saying it's going good. You say everyone knows you're honest then you say if we run a poll it wouldn't mean a thing. You've called the President a mass murderer then when pressed you can't provide why. You say Saddam was less evil than the current situation. You just have no credibility yet you don't intend to try to see the truth. think what you want.
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Can't come up with a "truth" I've rejected? Because I haven't. What soldier came on here and told us it's going good? If you're speaking of Ben, he didn't say he was a soldier. If I meet him on the street in uniform, he'll get all the respect due him. On the internet he's another poster with an opinion. But he doesn't get any respect from me for his blatent disregard for the soldiers with emotional problems who have killed themselves in Iraq. I did say why I consider Bush a mass murderer. He's responsible for the deaths of 35,000 Iraqis. Ignore, spin, all you want. Those people would likely be alive today if he had not invaded their country. You know it as well as I do, yet you won't admit it, you spin, you skate, you ignore. You're the one being dishonest.
 
Broke cowboy..I read the poem Tommy...I think it may be about soldier during a country's civil war....I guess i dont see The iraq war as defending your country from a take over.....As for your beheadings and barbaric behaviour you so often talk about,I dont dissagree they are horrific,It moves me to ask the questino,why not topple Haiti to then?Way more cruelty there than even in hell...You are no longer worth my time to read....you judge me from where i live,it seems thats how you judge all people.....I gather your a solider that has seen alot by the way you respond.I am sorry I do not measure up to you, only because my opinion is different....I guess we should all see life through your glasses,cause if we dont,you sure do get riled up....
 
FYI, I am an Infantry soldier in the Maine Army National Guard, I just got back from my Tour in Iraq a couple weeks ago. I've seen what is going on first hand. You can ask just about anyone over there and they will tell you things are headed in the right direction. The problem is all these armchair experts who base their opinions on other peoples opinions, articles and news reports.
 
You can ask just about anyone over there and they will tell you things are headed in the right direction.
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In february that wasn't the case. I'd be surprised if it's changed much in the past two months...
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1566644.php

I've no doubt that there are many in the military who think we're doing the right thing. But I also know for a fact that there are many who think it's beyond time to be wrapping up.
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I just took a look at this topic for the first time tonight. I read the first and last pages, so I skipped pages 2-6. Sorry. Here's my take on things.

I spent 11 1/2 months in the Diyala Province of Iraq, about 35 mi NE of Baghdad. From my experience, if the only source a person uses to learn about the war is CNN or pretty much any normal news outlet, you are going to hear the worst-case scenario. The simple fact is that good news does not make for good ratings, so they won't report it. We saw so many good things happen there - local economies explode (I mean, they really picked up; no pun intended), new construction being done that wasn't before, school improvements..the list goes on. A small example: before we got there, teachers made $7/month. Afterwards, they made $300. Still small potatoes, but either way, that's an improvement. There were many others.

About the negative things. Yes, they are there. I am not trying to cherry-pick the situation. Just give a little perspective. Do we blame FDR and Churchill for the deaths of all those Germans, Japanese, and Italian people? They weren't all bad people either. Some of them were decent people who were victims of the times and places they lived. In the same way, I do not think it is fair to personally blame Bush for the deaths of Iraqi citizens. While I agree that some of them were likely innocent, there were also quite a few who weren't. Unfortunately, this is the price of freedom. Do you think US bombs ever killed Jews in WWII? Probaby. But not on purpose. I question the credibility of those who seriously believe that the present situation holds less hope than the former government provided. Saddam Hussein actually was personally responsible for the deaths of innocent people. He personally ordered them. Bush did not go to Iraq for the sole purpose of killing people. If he did, why would we spend so much money rebuilding the country? The argument of our president being a mass murderer doesn't seem very logical.

About the "faulty intelligence". I think, being in his position, I would have been pro-active as well. I mean, if 3 of 5 intelligence sources are saying this Hussein guy is bad news and is itching to get you and your people, I don't think I would wait around for the other 2 to agree. Heck, if 1 source was saying it I would think about doing something. What are the consequences for being passive? Could have been worse than 9/11. Nobody knows. We can only guess. Maybe nothing would have happened. The point is, that is not an easy position to be in. I think a lot of anti-Bush people simplifiy it way too much.

Something we as Americans need to remember is how slow change is. It does not happen overnight. Let's look at the former Soviet Union. How many years has it been since they went through major changes? 15 or so? They aren't exactly firing on all cylinders yet, and they didn't have roadblocks like religious fanatics trying to slow the process. I think our American mindset is that things have to happen fast. Unfortunately most of the world, especially the Third World, does not operate at high speeds.
I think 3 years might be a little too soon to just give up on things.

One last comment/question. It was my understanding that active duty officers, even after discharge, have "undefined" or something to that effect on their ID cards, meaning they could still be called up 10 or 15 yrs after they are out of the service. I have an uncle who got out in the early 90's, and I am pretty sure he still has some rather obscure obligation to the military, should we have WWIII or something.
 
SDSU thanks for serving. I appreciate it very much.
Dis , here is another soldier for you "moderates or independants" to support. I'll sit back and watch you love him and thank him for serving.
 
Very well put SDSU Rancher. Finally some firsthand perspective. I work with a guy who did a 12 month tour over there. Your words pretty much mirror his conversations with me. BTW, I take it you went to SDSU. What year did you finish?
 

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