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Are feedlots "Producers"?

M

MsSage

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Joined
Oct 27, 2005
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Location
NW Panhandle Texas
I am asking I know a "dumb" question but I need to know.
I was watching Fox & Friends last weekend and Dr Rosenthal was talking about growth hormones being added by all meat producers.
I know most producers that I think of as producers do NOT add growth hormones.
Am I correct in thinking that producers are in fact the rancher and Most do NOT add growth hormones?

It seems to me that the state of beef and the growth hormone issue is being laid at the feet of the rancher ........
The feedlot and the distributor are being released of any "wrong doing" in the eyes of the consumer. Hormones and who knows what else being added. Meat that has no taste.
As a consumer I want all the facts and want REAL beef not the stuff that comes out of a packing plant.
There has to be a way to get that information out to the consumer........
 
A lot of producers (Cow calf that is) will implant calves... We don't here but I know my vet tries to talk me into each year... well, that is not fair, I should say they ask me what implant I want to use that year and when I say no they go "Oh yeah, you don't implant". Most of the real small guys don't do it..
 
MsSage, yours is not a dumb question.

It depends on your viewpoint as to who is a "producer".

You can sub classify ranchers as primary producers and feeders as producers.

Your questions about implants and such, it varies. Many primary producers vaccinate their cattle for everything under the sun. Just follow some of the threads, venerial diseases, scours, pneumonia, etc etc. Implants like ralgro and synovex are common at brandings from primary producers.

Feedlots that co-mingle hundreds or even thousands of cattle "process" them, new implants (maybe) and booster shots of all types of vaccines.

In these lots, the cattle are fed rations of grain and roughage (usually silage based now). The reason for lots, it is easier to feed a hundred or more in a pen than to feed a few here and there. Who is going to have a ration balanced for 5 steers? (Just feed them some hay and a pail of oats or whatever is handy).

As for beef quality, I am not sure how the vaccines and implants affect it. I know an animal with a strong implant will have a harder time marbling than one not implanted (some lots choose not to implant because of this). However there is a feed efficiency of about $80 per animal lost if the implant is not used. The marbling premium has to be high enough to overcome this cost.

I know for the beef I raise to eat or sell direct, no implants, and I only use an 8 way vaccine on the calves. I don't have silage so feed hay and ground barley. The age of the animal has a bearing on its texture as well as the sex. Heifers are fatter than steers at the same weight. Older animals develop more connective tissue and become tougher.

Branded beef programs like Certified Angus Beef have many criterion to have a consistant product. Carcass size, level of marbling, fat cover, maturity, all are used to try to make a superior eating experience.

Other programs like Laura's Lean use different criterion, they select for a leaner type beef some prefer. Again consistancy is the issue.

Taste comes with age and fat. Veal for example is tender but has not got what I consider a beef flavor. The virgin bulls I process have a better beef flavor than other young animals in my opinion. Some consumers hear bull and freak out, but I have had no complaints on the taste of virgin bull beef when they try it. Using Angus genetics I can get marbling on a leaner type animal. I wouldn't want to eat and exotic virgin bull as they could be too dry.

Unless you have a farmer's market that is allowed to butcher on the ground, all beef you buy will be processed in a packing plant of some type. Mine is done at one that kills 20 head per day. Nothing in the killing process should affect the beef flavor.

Genetics, feeding and handling while the animal is alive will definately affect eating quality.
 
We don't implant our calves, but they get it at the feedlot. Did you know growth hormones improperly used affects dentition, which in turn, will cause the animal to "appear" older than 24 months? We got majorly docked on an animal at kill time because of that, even though we had proof of age. By the time we got the carcass data and the check, it was a little to late :x
 
Have not used growth implants since 1980. I think the money used on implants was used on better genetics you would get better bang for your buck. Remember the big song and dance ( from the chemical companys ) that If you didn't use them the $3.00 barley would break you. Well barley is $2.00 now and we are still here :!: Growth implants have caused a lot of health concerns amoung comsumers and a lot of lost market oppertunities. I have had more than a few city folk question me about what I feed my animals and if my product is safe to eat. What $ do you put on that :???:
 
I use them a $1.25 investment for a $25 gain tallys up after a while.We had a guy here this spring wanting to get contracts on all natural calves for fall but was'nt paying anymore for them.The way I see it Money talks and Bullshit walks.Until the start paying for the lost lbs. in higher prices plus paying for the extra record keeping I will keep useing them.They want a premium product at a discount price forget it.
 
I agree 100% Denny. When a buck and a quarter will yield an additional $25 or more I'm going to keep doing it. I implanted my fall steers before taking them to pasture and you can almost see them grow. I haven't implanted the heifers because the vet thought it may not be a good idea as I wanted to keep some as replacements and didn't have them picked out yet. Do you implant the heifers? The market says implants are an excellent investment and until they want to pay a premium for non implanted steers mine will be implanted. Implants are almost as profitable as a "good mineral program!" :) :wink:
 
Red Barn Angus said:
I agree 100% Denny. When a buck and a quarter will yield an additional $25 or more I'm going to keep doing it. I implanted my fall steers before taking them to pasture and you can almost see them grow. I haven't implanted the heifers because the vet thought it may not be a good idea as I wanted to keep some as replacements and didn't have them picked out yet. Do you implant the heifers? The market says implants are an excellent investment and until they want to pay a premium for non implanted steers mine will be implanted. Implants are almost as profitable as a "good mineral program!" :) :wink:
Click to expand...

I don't implant heifers,I am still building my numbers so I keep all the heifers and give them a chance to be cows.We are now breeding 2 different bunches of cows spring calveing and late summer calveing.I can run the smaller heifers on grass and breed them in the fall and also get more bang out of my bulls.
 
We implanted half the steers one year. There wasn't enough difference it pounds between the others to pay for the implants.
 
Sure are some good points in some of the posts.

I am not current on information on implants. We have been keeping our calves in a backgrounding lot, selling some between Jan. and March, taking some to grass for the summer and selling late summer to early fall. And using implants for the gain we have achieved when using them.

We tailor the ration of ground hay, distillers grain, corn, minerals, and water added by weight, according to what we want the particular pen of calves to gain per day. Calves are sorted according to size, breed, and sex.

It seems to me the goal of implants is to grow more muscle and less external fat, isn't it? That, I believe was in response to consumer demand for leaner beef.

I believe the residue from such 'hormone' use (not even sure if it is technically hormones) is negligible if in evidence at all, but am searching for the info on that.

We have continually been improving the quality of our cattle, most recently going for smaller cows producing a higher percentage of their own weight in the calf.

MRJ
 
It is a significant percentage increase in hormone levels in the meat but an insignifican number if I remember correctly... My memory is going to fail me but there is more "phyto" estrogen in a backed potatoe than in a steak from a steer implanted with an estrogen based implant. And I won't even get into coconut oil.. osrry, I don't have the numbersm it is from a beef production class I took at MSU about 8 years ago and to be honest, I spent far to much time in the class studying my dreams instead of the material prseented in class... Is this why I don't have a degree?
 
Il Rancher,

Nothing wrong with chasing your dreams, hope she was pretty.


If the feedlot isn't a producer, is the steer man/backgrounder? I've been involved with cow/calf to finnished biz almost my entire life, and i see it as an indistinguishable process. things really work when the feeder is the rancher. You know how the steerman hates to buy grease on calves, when you raised them its cool to push them as you'll increase choice carcasses. Herd health is soooo much easier.


As for implants, They have been proven cost effective, but returns diminish with more implants in a steer. Thus, a big feeder that's been on implants won't get the same response as the steer that has been raised without them.


I understand there is no residue test that confirms implants, so there is no scientific reason to ban implants. But, I support the ban of implants - partly to paint a clear distinction between beef and competing meats, partly to access the EU (as if the EU isn't using the implant issue as a cover for protectionism) and finally the US consumer is really going organic.
 
ranch hand said:
We implanted half the steers one year. There wasn't enough difference it pounds between the others to pay for the implants.
Click to expand...
We don't implant our calves,but one year when our daughter was in 4-H, we got talked into doing it,some other parents were smarter then us and opted out...no difference from ours to the ones not implanted,never did it again! Also personally its not something Greg nor I really support,why if they are fed properly,just supposedly makes the cattle bigger,not better!
 
Food Estrogenic Activity ng/500g of food
Soybean Oil 1,000,000
Cabbage 12,000
Wheat germ 2,000
Peas 2,000
Eggs 17,500
Ice Cream 3,000
Milk 65
Beef from pregnant female 700
Beef from implanted cattle 11
Beef from non-implaned cattle 8


Badlands
 
I keep all the heifers
Click to expand...
Denny-You keep ALL the heifers? Is the overall quality of your cows so good that you couldn't step up your general level of improvement by ruthless selection and/or flushing your best and AI-ing them with PREMIUM bulls?

DOC HARRIS
 
DOC HARRIS said:
I keep all the heifers
Click to expand...
Denny-You keep ALL the heifers? Is the overall quality of your cows so good that you couldn't step up your general level of improvement by ruthless selection and/or flushing your best and AI-ing them with PREMIUM bulls?

DOC HARRIS
Click to expand...


Some are better than others,But the funny thing some of those dumpy heifers grow up to be tremendous cows,and the best heifers end up average or worse.I started with 10 cows most all of my cows are desendants of those other than about 20 registered heifers I have bought from time to time.I don't think Flushing cows is in my realm at this time and from talking to some Regitered Breeders it's quite costly.I have A.I.ed 30 heifers and 30 cows last year and again this year.Last year we calved 120 cows and only had 38 heifers which I kept all of them this year we have 59 heifers and 76 bulls will most likely keep all of the heifers but I may sell some.I am trying to get to 300 cows as soon as I can until then I have to keep welding to fund my ranching habit.

In order for me to get into the E.T. program I would need to borrow money to pay for it that is one thing I will not do.

If a cow or a heifer does'nt pan out she's down the road but they all get a chance.

I have 1 cow that by looking at her she would get culled she weighs less than a 1000#s last year she weaned a 650# heifer calf the year before 695# heifer calf cows like that make money.
 
Denny,
I've been fooled by the fancy looking heifers and some plainer ones, but I'd guess sombody like Jason Trow might get fooled a little less often. That said, I'll admit my mistakes and put those cows that prove to be second rate on a special little page in my daybook. Hard culling and buying good bulls is all we got. Thing is, an unworthy bred cow is worth too much right now.

I like your idea to not borrow money to save heifers at these prices, but bankers stand in line to loan money on cattle right now. When you can stand to borrow money on cows, only the savy bankers want any part of it. Those are some pretty impressive growth numbers you have going.

I shouldn't butt into your biz Denny, but here goes. Those high priced heifers you are raising should be sold this year and next. Use the money for a good chute or build good corrals or buy a good feedtruck or buy some grain storage or build some cash reserves. Perhaps sell half and bank half, but a heifer you are raising right now will only raise cheap calves her whole damn life. grow in stair steps, right now is the get strong part. In a couple years when a weaner is worth $400 and a cull is worth $300, they don't go very far fixing things that go wrong.
 

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