As ranchers

[Dylan Biggs]

Do we raise our kids or turn them into caring, honest, competent adults? To me it's the same. If ya have cows you are a part of a chain to provide the end product---Beef. If you are a cow/calf, feedlot, yearling, grassfat, sale barn, slaughter house, supermarket, ect. you play a part in providing protien to the masses. I'm proud to say I raise cattle and produce beef. Unless this a trick question that makes me look like a bigger idiot than I normally look like.

Semantics, cattle or beef. I agree with Leanin H. Braking down the production processes doesn't change the end product nor it's beginning.

Its seems the question was meant to start the cool debate discussion so the answer to the original question is probably of little relevance.

 

[leanin' H]

This topic about the competition between the USA and Canada is a river with lots of dangerous rapids but since I am not too bright I'd like to wade in. :wink: First off, I love my country and am proud of a lot that we do and have done. And I really do understand that we both are sovern nations that must stand alone. But geography has dealt us the hand that forces us to be neighbors. Plus we kinda get along. So what baffles me is why we can't work together producing beef to the world? South America can do it's own thing as can New Zealand and the Aussies. Although i would hope we could work with the boys down under some. But back to my thoughts...... Canada and the US need to quit beating each other and stand back to back in the fight against the lower quality garbage being sent north. I understand BSE scared the hell out of lots of folks, most of whom scare easily. And I get that some on both sides of the border used that as a lever to divide. Who wins? Packers! But there is a grassroots movement happening around this area getting back to "natural" and "local" products. Why can't all the moderates take back our organizations and kick the radicals in both directions to the curb? Why can't we raise a standard to the world of healthy, safe, affordable protien? Why can't we do what we ALL do best which is raise beef for folks who need it? If Walmart wants to sell "cheap" beef let em'. We need to provide an alternative and market it as such. Why not North American beef. We have the history! We have the know how! We have the desire! Now all we gotta do is act. Together. Or we can keep bitching and crying and knocking the hell out'a each other while our market share keeps getting smaller. Use the AAA as an example with CAB. Put some backbone in the qualifications. Put some garauntees behind the product. Drop anyone who can't or won't meet the strict standards. And simply let people everywhere enjoy the quality of beef that we all have in our own freezers! Knives and forks will do the rest. And it might just go a long way in bringing two amazing countries closer together. I understand there will be a lot of kicking and screaming, even by some on this site, but what is the alternative. I think we gotta stand together or fall by ourselves. Two cents from a hopeless optimistic dwelling and ranching in a spot with not enough water, land or cows. What do ya think?

 

[Anonymous]

This topic about the competition between the USA and Canada is a river with lots of dangerous rapids but since I am not too bright I'd like to wade in. :wink: First off, I love my country and am proud of a lot that we do and have done. And I really do understand that we both are sovern nations that must stand alone. But geography has dealt us the hand that forces us to be neighbors. Plus we kinda get along. So what baffles me is why we can't work together producing beef to the world? South America can do it's own thing as can New Zealand and the Aussies. Although i would hope we could work with the boys down under some. But back to my thoughts...... Canada and the US need to quit beating each other and stand back to back in the fight against the lower quality garbage being sent north. I understand BSE scared the hell out of lots of folks, most of whom scare easily. And I get that some on both sides of the border used that as a lever to divide. Who wins? Packers! But there is a grassroots movement happening around this area getting back to "natural" and "local" products. Why can't all the moderates take back our organizations and kick the radicals in both directions to the curb? Why can't we raise a standard to the world of healthy, safe, affordable protien? Why can't we do what we ALL do best which is raise beef for folks who need it? If Walmart wants to sell "cheap" beef let em'. We need to provide an alternative and market it as such. Why not North American beef. We have the history! We have the know how! We have the desire! Now all we gotta do is act. Together. Or we can keep bitching and crying and knocking the hell out'a each other while our market share keeps getting smaller. Use the AAA as an example with CAB. Put some backbone in the qualifications. Put some garauntees behind the product. Drop anyone who can't or won't meet the strict standards. And simply let people everywhere enjoy the quality of beef that we all have in our own freezers! Knives and forks will do the rest. And it might just go a long way in bringing two amazing countries closer together. I understand there will be a lot of kicking and screaming, even by some on this site, but what is the alternative. I think we gotta stand together or fall by ourselves. Two cents from a hopeless optimistic dwelling and ranching in a spot with not enough water, land or cows. What do ya think?

Leanin H- I know you haven't seen the whole history- or you would know that was already tried..Back when NAFTA first came into effect- many US producers - including myself supported it...Many figured- and had it lined out so that with the amount of cattle being raised in the US- and the huge amount of grains being produced in Canada- and with all the Canadian feedlots- it would be a win win situation to send cattle north- feed them- and then market that beef thruout North America
BUT
immediately after NAFTA went thru-- Canada came out with the "ALL US CATTLE ARE DISEASED" rules-- and essentially shut off those US cattle from going north-- and instead the Canadian herd expanded several fold over- some with government subsidized changeover from cropland to pasture/hay- with the Canadians then going into competition with US producers..

That is the reason a couple years ago- even the NCBA folks balked- and they nearly had an internal revolt- when their President Jan Lyons and Officers supported calling it North American Beef....Remember Jans almost tearful "We weren't listening to our members" speach?...
Folks got slapped in the face hard by the Canadians- and the packers using the Canadian border and differences in Canadian laws for their profiteering at the expense of US producers--
AND now the real topper is that Canadians are again trying to tell US citizens that we are no longer a soveriegn nation- and can't pass laws allowing US consumers to be told the truth on the country of origin of the food they eat....

 

[per]

Rock on H. (insert fist pumping icon here)

 

[leanin' H]

This topic about the competition between the USA and Canada is a river with lots of dangerous rapids but since I am not too bright I'd like to wade in. :wink: First off, I love my country and am proud of a lot that we do and have done. And I really do understand that we both are sovern nations that must stand alone. But geography has dealt us the hand that forces us to be neighbors. Plus we kinda get along. So what baffles me is why we can't work together producing beef to the world? South America can do it's own thing as can New Zealand and the Aussies. Although i would hope we could work with the boys down under some. But back to my thoughts...... Canada and the US need to quit beating each other and stand back to back in the fight against the lower quality garbage being sent north. I understand BSE scared the hell out of lots of folks, most of whom scare easily. And I get that some on both sides of the border used that as a lever to divide. Who wins? Packers! But there is a grassroots movement happening around this area getting back to "natural" and "local" products. Why can't all the moderates take back our organizations and kick the radicals in both directions to the curb? Why can't we raise a standard to the world of healthy, safe, affordable protien? Why can't we do what we ALL do best which is raise beef for folks who need it? If Walmart wants to sell "cheap" beef let em'. We need to provide an alternative and market it as such. Why not North American beef. We have the history! We have the know how! We have the desire! Now all we gotta do is act. Together. Or we can keep bitching and crying and knocking the hell out'a each other while our market share keeps getting smaller. Use the AAA as an example with CAB. Put some backbone in the qualifications. Put some garauntees behind the product. Drop anyone who can't or won't meet the strict standards. And simply let people everywhere enjoy the quality of beef that we all have in our own freezers! Knives and forks will do the rest. And it might just go a long way in bringing two amazing countries closer together. I understand there will be a lot of kicking and screaming, even by some on this site, but what is the alternative. I think we gotta stand together or fall by ourselves. Two cents from a hopeless optimistic dwelling and ranching in a spot with not enough water, land or cows. What do ya think?

Leanin H- I know you haven't seen the whole history- or you would know that was already tried..Back when NAFTA first came into effect- many US producers - including myself supported it...Many figured- and had it lined out so that with the amount of cattle being raised in the US- and the huge amount of grains being produced in Canada- and with all the Canadian feedlots- it would be a win win situation to send cattle north- feed them- and then market that beef thruout North America
BUT
immediately after NAFTA went thru-- Canada came out with the "ALL US CATTLE ARE DISEASED" rules-- and essentially shut off those US cattle from going north-- and instead the Canadian herd expanded several fold over- some with government subsidized changeover from cropland to pasture/hay- with the Canadians then going into competition with US producers..
That is the reason a couple years ago- even the NCBA folks balked- and they nearly had an internal revolt- when their President Jan Lyons and Officers supported calling it North American Beef....Remember Jans almost tearful "We weren't listening to our members" speach?...
Folks got slapped in the face hard by the Canadians- and the packers using the Canadian border and differences in Canadian laws for their profiteering at the expense of US producers--
AND now the real topper is that Canadians are again trying to tell US citizens that we are no longer a soveriegn nation- and can't pass laws allowing US consumers to be told the truth on the country of origin of the food they eat....

We will always compete with each other and against the rest of the world. Why not quit doing that and join together? And US beef gets its fair share of subsidies. Remember it's food we are producing and government has a tendency to want their citizens not to go hungry. I said there would be kicking and screaming. Give me an argument why cooperation and common sense couldnt bridge the gap. Don't tell me that the dang Canadians this or the arrogant Americans that...... Tell me why we can't all gain by getting out ahead of the curve in how we market our beef!

 

[Anonymous]

This topic about the competition between the USA and Canada is a river with lots of dangerous rapids but since I am not too bright I'd like to wade in. :wink: First off, I love my country and am proud of a lot that we do and have done. And I really do understand that we both are sovern nations that must stand alone. But geography has dealt us the hand that forces us to be neighbors. Plus we kinda get along. So what baffles me is why we can't work together producing beef to the world? South America can do it's own thing as can New Zealand and the Aussies. Although i would hope we could work with the boys down under some. But back to my thoughts...... Canada and the US need to quit beating each other and stand back to back in the fight against the lower quality garbage being sent north. I understand BSE scared the hell out of lots of folks, most of whom scare easily. And I get that some on both sides of the border used that as a lever to divide. Who wins? Packers! But there is a grassroots movement happening around this area getting back to "natural" and "local" products. Why can't all the moderates take back our organizations and kick the radicals in both directions to the curb? Why can't we raise a standard to the world of healthy, safe, affordable protien? Why can't we do what we ALL do best which is raise beef for folks who need it? If Walmart wants to sell "cheap" beef let em'. We need to provide an alternative and market it as such. Why not North American beef. We have the history! We have the know how! We have the desire! Now all we gotta do is act. Together. Or we can keep bitching and crying and knocking the hell out'a each other while our market share keeps getting smaller. Use the AAA as an example with CAB. Put some backbone in the qualifications. Put some garauntees behind the product. Drop anyone who can't or won't meet the strict standards. And simply let people everywhere enjoy the quality of beef that we all have in our own freezers! Knives and forks will do the rest. And it might just go a long way in bringing two amazing countries closer together. I understand there will be a lot of kicking and screaming, even by some on this site, but what is the alternative. I think we gotta stand together or fall by ourselves. Two cents from a hopeless optimistic dwelling and ranching in a spot with not enough water, land or cows. What do ya think?

Leanin H- I know you haven't seen the whole history- or you would know that was already tried..Back when NAFTA first came into effect- many US producers - including myself supported it...Many figured- and had it lined out so that with the amount of cattle being raised in the US- and the huge amount of grains being produced in Canada- and with all the Canadian feedlots- it would be a win win situation to send cattle north- feed them- and then market that beef thruout North America
BUT
immediately after NAFTA went thru-- Canada came out with the "ALL US CATTLE ARE DISEASED" rules-- and essentially shut off those US cattle from going north-- and instead the Canadian herd expanded several fold over- some with government subsidized changeover from cropland to pasture/hay- with the Canadians then going into competition with US producers..
That is the reason a couple years ago- even the NCBA folks balked- and they nearly had an internal revolt- when their President Jan Lyons and Officers supported calling it North American Beef....Remember Jans almost tearful "We weren't listening to our members" speach?...
Folks got slapped in the face hard by the Canadians- and the packers using the Canadian border and differences in Canadian laws for their profiteering at the expense of US producers--
AND now the real topper is that Canadians are again trying to tell US citizens that we are no longer a soveriegn nation- and can't pass laws allowing US consumers to be told the truth on the country of origin of the food they eat....

We will always compete with each other and against the rest of the world. Why not quit doing that and join together? And US beef gets its fair share of subsidies. Remember it's food we are producing and government has a tendency to want their citizens not to go hungry. I said there would be kicking and screaming. Give me an argument why cooperation and common sense couldnt bridge the gap. Don't tell me that the dang Canadians this or the arrogant Americans that...... Tell me why we can't all gain by getting out ahead of the curve in how we market our beef!

I think that is exactly what Sheri is saying--but there has been a lotty of stinky water run under the bridge...

I agree that we need to get together and fight the multinationals and walmarting of the world--but by telling US producers that they can't pass laws that do that- and be truthful with consumers- instead wanting US producers to join in supporting a fraud- is not the way to start....

I don't think you will ever get much support for North American Beef- if not from the reason of all the stinky water of the past--but from all the folks that are fighting to keep the politicians from putting together a European Union in North America-- and the formation of the NAU (North American Union)- Free Trade Zones that run from Mexico to Canada- and the adoption of the Amero as the new currency of Mexico, US, and Canada...One of the main issues the multinationals have been able to use in their raping of producers in both countries has been the currency value differences..

And remember when you talk North American- you bring in Mexico- and all the problems that exist with that- from their products, to their labor exchange, to currency exchange.....

 

[leanin' H]

With all due respect, TO HELL WITH MEXICO! That comment has nothing to do with race. It has to do with the fact that they won't/can't step up to the plate and matter. They are a third world country at best. They have nothing in common with the US or Canada. They are light years behind us and are merely an anchor on progress. It is only the political idiots who included them in the first place. And If you and I can let bygones be bygones, then forget about the water under the bridge being stinky! Compromise will require us all to adjust our undies.

 

[Anonymous]

With all due respect, TO HELL WITH MEXICO! That comment has nothing to do with race. It has to do with the fact that they won't/can't step up to the plate and matter. They are a third world country at best. They have nothing in common with the US or Canada. They are light years behind us and are merely an anchor on progress. It is only the political idiots who included them in the first place. And If you and I can let bygones be bygones, then forget about the water under the bridge being stinky! Compromise will require us all to adjust our undies.

I'd love to say that--BUT they are part of NAFTA- and they would have to be included in any North American Beef agreement.....

That is the part you seem to forget- this was all a POLITICAL agreement- that was made for the profiteering benefit of the multinationals and big corporates-- and the Canadians are again showing that by their challenging the US Congress and American voters sovereign right to pass laws affecting American consumers...

The thing is- it is both countries that need a strong M-COOL law to challenge the multinational corporates and walmarters passing off of foreign beef as domestic-- and being able to use one country against the next that way....

 

[Kato]

leanin' H, you are to be commended for your wisdom and common sense. Before 2003, what you propose is exactly what we were under the impression we already had. Of course there were some who disagreed, and I'll let you guess who.. :wink:

They never wanted it in the first place, and were, and still are, willing to grab at any excuse. Case in point, that same old tired argument about the anaplasmosis/bluetongue thing.

The border is not closed because of this, cattle are not blocked. OT just likes to drag this out and toss it up in the air once in a while.

All that was asked was that they be tested, which is a long way from closing the border. This sort of thing happens between different states in your country, so it's hardly out of the ordinary. There is a restricted feeder program that has conditions attached to it, but it's only meant to be used if the importer/exporter don't want to bother with testing the animals. Breeding stock can come in if it passes tests for brucellosis, TB, anaplasmosis, or bluetonge (for cattle from Florida only). This country is brucellosis free, and anaplasmosis free, and we do not even have a brucelosis vaccine allowed to be used here, or a licensed treament for anaplasmosis. This is why we need to know the cattle are not infected. We don't want to keep them out, we just want to make sure they're healthy. That's not asking too much.

So, I guess what it boils down to is that there will always be those who would rather build a big old wall and shut out the world, and fester away in that stinky water, than see the big picture and the potential that comes with working together.

Once again, thanks for your common sense.

 

[Rambo]

This topic about the competition between the USA and Canada is a river with lots of dangerous rapids but since I am not too bright I'd like to wade in. :wink: First off, I love my country and am proud of a lot that we do and have done. And I really do understand that we both are sovern nations that must stand alone. But geography has dealt us the hand that forces us to be neighbors. Plus we kinda get along. So what baffles me is why we can't work together producing beef to the world? South America can do it's own thing as can New Zealand and the Aussies. Although i would hope we could work with the boys down under some. But back to my thoughts...... Canada and the US need to quit beating each other and stand back to back in the fight against the lower quality garbage being sent north. I understand BSE scared the hell out of lots of folks, most of whom scare easily. And I get that some on both sides of the border used that as a lever to divide. Who wins? Packers! But there is a grassroots movement happening around this area getting back to "natural" and "local" products. Why can't all the moderates take back our organizations and kick the radicals in both directions to the curb? Why can't we raise a standard to the world of healthy, safe, affordable protien? Why can't we do what we ALL do best which is raise beef for folks who need it? If Walmart wants to sell "cheap" beef let em'. We need to provide an alternative and market it as such. Why not North American beef. We have the history! We have the know how! We have the desire! Now all we gotta do is act. Together. Or we can keep bitching and crying and knocking the hell out'a each other while our market share keeps getting smaller. Use the AAA as an example with CAB. Put some backbone in the qualifications. Put some garauntees behind the product. Drop anyone who can't or won't meet the strict standards. And simply let people everywhere enjoy the quality of beef that we all have in our own freezers! Knives and forks will do the rest. And it might just go a long way in bringing two amazing countries closer together. I understand there will be a lot of kicking and screaming, even by some on this site, but what is the alternative. I think we gotta stand together or fall by ourselves. Two cents from a hopeless optimistic dwelling and ranching in a spot with not enough water, land or cows. What do ya think?

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

 

[Sandhusker]

Kato, "All that was asked was that they be tested..."

We asked that too, but was told that it violated "trade".

 

[burnt]

Kato, "All that was asked was that they be tested..."

We asked that too, but was told that it violated "trade".

And it did. You had an equal chance to find BSE in your herd had YOU been testing properly. Therefore, you were asking us to do something that you were not doing yourselves! :lol:

You had (have) a known and ongoing issue with "brucellosis, TB, anaplasmosis, or bluetongue" and it was not out of order to ask for negative test results.

Seems to me that there are restrictions on free movement between states because of those diseases - why is it considered untoward that there be monitoring on an international basis?

And before you go spouting off about BSE in the Canadian herd, let me ask this, did the meager, mismanaged and misdirected BSE testing that the U.S. pretended to do show that you actually were BSE free?


SAME RISK, if not worse in the U.S., because of feeding practices and almost no monitoring for BSE.

Your downers? Just grind 'em up and feed'em back to your cattle!

 

[Sandhusker]

Burnt, if you believe the official excuse on how your BSE originated (just a couple of oooops from one or two feed companies), then we would not have the same risk.

Pick a story and stick with it.

 

[burnt]

Burnt, if you believe the official excuse on how your BSE originated (just a couple of oooops from one or two feed companies), then we would not have the same risk.

Pick a story and stick with it.

Sandhusker, regardless of the route of transmission/infectivity, if you believe that the U.S. herd has a lower occurrence and risk of BSE than the CDN herd then I have a bridge to sell you.

Do you still have access to financing? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[PPRM]

I direct Market, so I raise Beef from Cattle that perform to my conditions

 

[flounder]

...They have nothing in common with the US or Canada...

Mexico does have one thing in common with the USA and Canada i.e.
BSE GBR RISK ASSESSMENT = BSE GBR III



The most recent assessments (and reassessments) were published in June 2005 (Table I; 18), and included the categorisation of Canada, the USA, and Mexico as GBR III. Although only Canada and the USA have reported cases, the historically open system of trade in North America suggests that it is likely that BSE is present also in Mexico.


http://www.oie.int/boutique/extrait/06heim937950.pdf

 

[Sandhusker]

Burnt, if you believe the official excuse on how your BSE originated (just a couple of oooops from one or two feed companies), then we would not have the same risk.

Pick a story and stick with it.

Sandhusker, regardless of the route of transmission/infectivity, if you believe that the U.S. herd has a lower occurrence and risk of BSE than the CDN herd then I have a bridge to sell you.

Do you still have access to financing? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well then, you're saying that the official story of tainted feed is just that, a story. You can't have it both ways depending on the arguement du jour.

 

[burnt]

Burnt, if you believe the official excuse on how your BSE originated (just a couple of oooops from one or two feed companies), then we would not have the same risk.

Pick a story and stick with it.

Sandhusker, regardless of the route of transmission/infectivity, if you believe that the U.S. herd has a lower occurrence and risk of BSE than the CDN herd then I have a bridge to sell you.

Do you still have access to financing? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well then, you're saying that the official story of tainted feed is just that, a story. You can't have it both ways depending on the arguement du jour.

So what's your theory, Sandhusker?

 

[burnt]

Sandhusker, regardless of the route of transmission/infectivity, if you believe that the U.S. herd has a lower occurrence and risk of BSE than the CDN herd then I have a bridge to sell you.

Do you still have access to financing? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well then, you're saying that the official story of tainted feed is just that, a story. You can't have it both ways depending on the arguement du jour.

So what's your theory, Sandhusker?

Still thinking?

 

[Sandhusker]

I think that both of our governments are full of crap, have sold their souls to the god of "trade", and are carrying water for the packers. Your government has been trying to poo-poo everything and the comment "We're catching them all" is revealing and clearly can't be true.

My government has been evasive from the start, completely reversed course for the packers to our detriment, and has shown that they're not serious about finding whether we have a BSE problem or not.

That's what I think.