Bell Ranch, An uncertain future

[the_jersey_lilly_2000]

He minds his business.....but when you might need his help in an issue...all you have to do is ask and you get it. No problems here.

What if you needed his help in keeping our young people involved in ranching? Is he eager to help with that? If so, what is he doing in that regard?

For the last 2 yrs here, he's donated money and people to help rebuild the barns/pens/lots at the Fair Grounds for the FFA/4H kids. Our set up out there was PITIFUL and had been negelected by the school boards for yrs and yrs.


Once it was all fixed up, warm in the right places, water/wash areas in the right places, places to sit and watch for parents and the like...the attendance went out the roof for kids showing and people attending.


Several kids came across him one day at the local diner/hang out here...got to talking...and it all began to happen.

Them's the facts as I know them! :wink:

This is neither here nor there.....but kinda a question of sorts. You said the fair grounds had been neglected or years by the school boards. Is the fair ground owned by the school district? I don't know how things are in other places, but around here, all the fair grounds are "County Fair Grounds" owned and maintained by the county. School board has nothin to do with the fair grounds.

Just curious.

That's nice tho that he helped out with upgrading all the facilities.

 

[Red Robin]

That's good to hear, kola. That's sure something positive about him, in my estimation. I would hope that he's doing stuff like that out west, too. Although I'm not sure that would make up for all of the prospective ranchers that are being displaced by his accumulation of western ranchland.

See...this terminology is what causes problems. He did not displace anybody. Those people put their place up FOR SALE.


You make it sound like they went in there and thre the people out in the yard in their bedclothes!!!

I say ONE MORE TIME....the problem is not with who is buying what is FOR SALE. the problem must lie with the reasons that people are selling out.

I know you really really, really, want to make this one high profile person the bad guy....but it just won't work.

I'm not just speaking of turner but when part of the Americans productive land goes out of production, someone looses a job. That's what I hate about govt. owning so much good land, conservation trusts, and rich folks like turner taking it out of production. I'm not against him owning it and if he pays for it, it's his to do with as he pleases, it just disappoints me. He has the money to run some of the most productive range in the most productive fashion. It'd be nice to see him do that.

 

[kolanuraven]

Double post....DSL on the fritz!

 

[kolanuraven]

What if you needed his help in keeping our young people involved in ranching? Is he eager to help with that? If so, what is he doing in that regard?

For the last 2 yrs here, he's donated money and people to help rebuild the barns/pens/lots at the Fair Grounds for the FFA/4H kids. Our set up out there was PITIFUL and had been negelected by the school boards for yrs and yrs.


Once it was all fixed up, warm in the right places, water/wash areas in the right places, places to sit and watch for parents and the like...the attendance went out the roof for kids showing and people attending.


Several kids came across him one day at the local diner/hang out here...got to talking...and it all began to happen.

Them's the facts as I know them! :wink:

This is neither here nor there.....but kinda a question of sorts. You said the fair grounds had been neglected or years by the school boards. Is the fair ground owned by the school district? I don't know how things are in other places, but around here, all the fair grounds are "County Fair Grounds" owned and maintained by the county. School board has nothin to do with the fair grounds.

Just curious.

That's nice tho that he helped out with upgrading all the facilities.

In a normal world you are right Lilly. :lol:

Here it's an odd arrangement. The county designates X amount of $$ for ' special school related projects' @ the Fair Ground and they let the School Board be in charge of that money and how it is spent.

With soooo many Latino kids moving in...over the yrs most of that money has gone to scoccer fields and of course the football teams.

So as time passed and the conditions in the ' ag' part of the grounds got worse..no kids wanted to participate and no one could really blame them. I let the Ag Dept use a truck/trailer of mine lots of times as the one they had was unsafe and they could not get funds from anywhere to buy a new one, or even a better used one.


As time marched on the Board decided that since no on seemed interested in ' ag' they would get rid of it in the schools...along with PE and Drivers Ed and some other vocational classes. That way the $$ could be spent in other directions that seemed to pet interest of some of the members of the Board.

That caused protest amongst some of the locals. Anyhoo...a call was put out for matching funds from the public and it took on a life of it's own.


Long story short....the Ag division/interest was brought back by donations of time, money and materials. Now it faces no threats of being cut and put to the way side and plenty of people show up to the shows whether they have kids in it or not.

 

[jodywy]

Agriculture conservation easement doses not take land out of production. The bylaws on the boards I serve on require that water rights be use so they are not lost and that acceptable agricultural practice. As for perpetuity that there for the tax code, if you really want to get rid of an easement it will take some paper work and a lot of taxes to be repaid

 

[jodywy]

Oh if Congress would do away with the death tax a lot of conservation easement would not be needed. Nor the tax relief for and easement .

 

[Red Robin]

Not all conservation trusts are agriculture related. Some are strictly against agriculture and supposedly for "nature".

 

[CattleArmy]

I'd personally rather see it subdivided than given to the U.N.

*****************************
CattleArmy
Member


I'm for subdividing they might know what a neighbor is. King buffalo doesn't.



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I'll say this AGAIN.....if you want to keep it like it is....YOU go and buy it , it's surely FOR SALE and I'm sure the people would love to see you do that!


No wonder Mr. Turner is reserved as a Western neighbor with such a catty bunch that he seems to have to deal with out in that part of the world. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

You don't have the slightest clue what being a neighbor is if you honestly can type that.

 

[CattleArmy]

He minds his business.....but when you might need his help in an issue...all you have to do is ask and you get it. No problems here.

What if you needed his help in keeping our young people involved in ranching? Is he eager to help with that? If so, what is he doing in that regard?

No he's all for reintroducing wolves, prarie dogs, and bison but he's making the young rancher extinct.

Not all of us can be born into large cattle operations. Dang it!

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As for him displacing people he did. Or at least his management did. Ranch families that had been on that ranch for over twenty years and some for seven no longer had a home. Yeah they could stay but their cattle couldn't and we all know as cattle producers how much our cows mean to us. People that knew the land, had raised their children on it, and loved it as their own were now out. Was it their choice no. They didn't own the land to start with and Turner wasn't interested in them if it wasn't on his terms. Or Kalo are you saying only the people who own the land count? Cause if hired men don't count then some of the best people don't matter. Some of the best cowmen I've had the privelage of knowing never owned the land but they worked it and loved it like it was theirs.

 

[Mrs.Greg]

He minds his business.....but when you might need his help in an issue...all you have to do is ask and you get it. No problems here.

What if you needed his help in keeping our young people involved in ranching? Is he eager to help with that? If so, what is he doing in that regard?

No he's all for reintroducing wolves, prarie dogs, and bison but he's making the young rancher extinct.

Not all of us can be born into large cattle operations. Dang it!

The thing is...The lands For Sale,if you want it BUY it if you don't or can't what is all the whining in the world going to do about it :???:

We have the same thing with Hutterites in our area,land goes up For Sale they buy it then the locals whine and complain about it.The chance was just as open to the locals as the Hoots. Funny thing is though when its time for some of the local whiners to sell guess who they sell to??

I love seeing young upcoming ranchers in our area...like Pure Country but one has to be pro-active...buy the land :!: :!:

 

[CattleArmy]

What if you needed his help in keeping our young people involved in ranching? Is he eager to help with that? If so, what is he doing in that regard?

No he's all for reintroducing wolves, prarie dogs, and bison but he's making the young rancher extinct.

Not all of us can be born into large cattle operations. Dang it!

The thing is...The lands For Sale,if you want it BUY it if you don't or can't what is all the whining in the world going to do about it :???:

We have the same thing with Hutterites in our area,land goes up For Sale they buy it then the locals whine and complain about it.The chance was just as open to the locals as the Hoots. Funny thing is though when its time for some of the local whiners to sell guess who they sell to??

I love seeing young upcoming ranchers in our area...like Pure Country but one has to be pro-active...buy the land :!: :!:

How do cows ever pay for 300-350 an acrea land? Times are so much different for the young rancher then even from say 30 years ago. 20 years ago land was apraised from $99 dollars an acrea.

I don't think it's whining I think it's concern when you see land around you being bought up like crazy by on source that no one can stand up to. Have some tried yes. Were they successful no. I guess one can never understand it until they see the impact it is having on the community. No one can understand it until they are followed on a county road by his help. No one can understand it until you've been right in it.

I will say I try hard to say Turners management because I highly doubt Ted has a clue what is going on. However, he should be accountable in some way he's the one who but these in their job. I just don't think he has a clue what goes on.

 

[nonothing]

This Idea of "if it is for sale then the highest bidder wins" Has made North America a bussiness rather then a courty....

Lets take Soapweeds empire,he has a ranch that is his and his families livelyhood...He has a few workers but he runs his own ranch....Now when he needs a hand for bigger ranch jobs,he is helped by his nieghbors....As when they need his help he is there to help them...

Now if he gets hurt,then he relies on his family and good cow hands to pick up his part...He cant just hire another person to cover for him...Now if he needs a new water heater for his home he may have to sell a few cows to cover that cost...

If the price of cattle drops to far he could lose money or worse...

Thats when mr Turner comes in ....He will offer to buy soaps land ...See Mr Turner wins during good and bad times....He can write off his ranching losses against another thriving industry he has in his empire..Also he can buy more land cause those that depend on just their ranch as an empire,can nolonger even borrow against their land....

I think this is the biggest concern to me....The guy bought land not to be a rancher but to supply his resturante chains throught America with buffalo....

How does a young rancher compete for land to build his dream..the answer is....He can't.....Maybe he could lease a spot but not many will be able to own...I suspect and I am not in the ranching bussiness but many families work off the ranch in town jobs and such....Just to make ends meet..

Ted can subsidise his empire.Soapweed can not.....

I know Mr Turner helps many people and that shows great Character....I think on his land ownership,he should take the time to see what true help he can give the ranching industry.....He can fix up as many communities buildings as he likes,but what good is that if he is the only one left there to use them....

 

[mrj]

A lot of you guys who see no hope for ranchers, young ranchers, or existing ones, sound like people did back in the '50s when 'drouthed out' Texans came to western SD and paid $10.00 per acre for land that had been selling for considerably less.......some said :"let them have it! We will buy it back for $5.00 after the next drouth!" Didn't happen! Won't happen! Too many speculators and investors have noticed that they don't make land anymore. World-wide, according to people I've talked to in the real estate business, land is selling with no definite plan to pay for it, only to hang on to it for inflated values.

There those who are optimistic about the cattle business, believing we are poised for good prices FOR QUALITY CATTLE well into the future. They probably will do well. Those who can only forsee doom and gloom ahead very likely will have that experience! Who can remember when there WERE NOT any land speculators running up prices????

BTW, Turner has, from what I hear, been a good community member, neighbor, and treats his help well in SD. Doesn't make me like the fact of his presence any better, but is better than the alternative, too.

mrj

 

[CattleArmy]

A lot of you guys who see no hope for ranchers, young ranchers, or existing ones, sound like people did back in the '50s when 'drouthed out' Texans came to western SD and paid $10.00 per acre for land that had been selling for considerably less.......some said :"let them have it! We will buy it back for $5.00 after the next drouth!" Didn't happen! Won't happen! Too many speculators and investors have noticed that they don't make land anymore. World-wide, according to people I've talked to in the real estate business, land is selling with no definite plan to pay for it, only to hang on to it for inflated values.

There those who are optimistic about the cattle business, believing we are poised for good prices FOR QUALITY CATTLE well into the future. They probably will do well. Those who can only forsee doom and gloom ahead very likely will have that experience! Who can remember when there WERE NOT any land speculators running up prices????

BTW, Turner has, from what I hear, been a good community member, neighbor, and treats his help well in SD. Doesn't make me like the fact of his presence any better, but is better than the alternative, too.

mrj

MRJ - When the ranch in our area was first purchased I wasn't thrilled that Turner purchased it, but I did realize that the family had sold it and it didn't seem like anyone local had enough money to buy that huge of chunk of land. His manager moved in and wanted to be a part of the community and was willing to do feasible deals that worked in the interest of both parties. For exmple hay was put up standing and you paid for it. Pasture they didn't need for the buffalo neighbors could lease for the summer. He went to brandings and hosted community get togethers. Contracts always had to be signed but many of us realized the day of the handshake is over and it was just doing business. Then that manager wanted to be placed on another ranch due to a better school and the new manager moved in and in about a week that new manager took all the positive that people here thought of Turner and made it bad. We understood what the folks around Mullen and Gordon were feeling and knew suddenly why they thought those of us in the community not minding him were CRAZY.

As far as the three communities I know of that lay within close proximity I don't think anyone has seen any great community benefit. I know the one local fire department asked for a donation (from all local ranches not just Turner) and wow they could part with 400 bucks! :roll:

 

[Mrs.Greg]

No he's all for reintroducing wolves, prarie dogs, and bison but he's making the young rancher extinct.

Not all of us can be born into large cattle operations. Dang it!

The thing is...The lands For Sale,if you want it BUY it if you don't or can't what is all the whining in the world going to do about it :???:

We have the same thing with Hutterites in our area,land goes up For Sale they buy it then the locals whine and complain about it.The chance was just as open to the locals as the Hoots. Funny thing is though when its time for some of the local whiners to sell guess who they sell to??

I love seeing young upcoming ranchers in our area...like Pure Country but one has to be pro-active...buy the land :!: :!:

How do cows ever pay for 300-350 an acrea land? Times are so much different for the young rancher then even from say 30 years ago. 20 years ago land was apraised from $99 dollars an acrea.

I don't think it's whining I think it's concern when you see land around you being bought up like crazy by on source that no one can stand up to. Have some tried yes. Were they successful no. I guess one can never understand it until they see the impact it is having on the community. No one can understand it until they are followed on a county road by his help. No one can understand it until you've been right in it.

I will say I try hard to say Turners management because I highly doubt Ted has a clue what is going on. However, he should be accountable in some way he's the one who but these in their job. I just don't think he has a clue what goes on.

When we bought our land 30 years ago we paid $400 a acre for it,its now going for around $1000,generalising like some young people like to do about land wasn't worth what it is now is silly its all relevant.

I find it funny how your tolerances change when they affect you :???:

 

[Julie]

I find it funny how your tolerances change when they affect you Say what?

That would also apply to the wolf "re-introduction" --

 

[greg]

Kola-
Mr. Turner has well earned his reputation. He didn't need his "neighbors" help.

I'm one of his neighbors, for many years now.....and he's great.

He minds his business.....but when you might need his help in an issue...all you have to do is ask and you get it. No problems here.


He's just someone else who lives here in our eyes...not the devil incarnate!


People react in the manner that others treat them, and that goes for ALL people be they mega $$$$ people or the poorest of poor.

Don't know anything about the fight-But well said

 

[Texan]

That's good to hear, kola. That's sure something positive about him, in my estimation. I would hope that he's doing stuff like that out west, too. Although I'm not sure that would make up for all of the prospective ranchers that are being displaced by his accumulation of western ranchland.

See...this terminology is what causes problems. He did not displace anybody. Those people put their place up FOR SALE.


You make it sound like they went in there and thre the people out in the yard in their bedclothes!!!

I say ONE MORE TIME....the problem is not with who is buying what is FOR SALE. the problem must lie with the reasons that people are selling out.

I know you really really, really, want to make this one high profile person the bad guy....but it just won't work.

Easy there, Trigger. If you don't know what a word means, look it up. In this case, I don't mind helping you out:

Displace
Verb

1. Take the place of.

2. Force to move; "the refugees were displaced by the war".

3. Move (people) forcibly from their homeland into a new and foreign environment; "The war uprooted many people".

4. Cause to move, both in a concrete and in an abstract sense; "Move those boxes into the corner, please"; "I'm moving my money to another bank"; "The director moved more responsibilities onto his new assistant".

5. Remove or force from a position of dwelling previously occupied; "The new employee dislodged her by moving into her office space".

6. Put out of its usual place, position, or relationship; "The colonists displaced the natives".

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/displace


It's obvious that these ranchers are no longer in their "usual place" and that Turner is there instead. It's also obvious that for whatever reasons, they have been "caused to move." And that Turner has "taken the place of" them.

If I wanted to allege that Turner threw them out, that's the terminology I would have used.

It's quite obvious that sellers make their own decisions to sell out. I also believe that they should be able to sell to anybody they want to. I fully support those freedoms - for both buyers and sellers.

That does NOT mean that I have to like the results, though. About the only good thing I can say is that selling to Turner seems to be better than those ranches being subdivided.

Now, you need to get your panties(if any) out of a wad, Trixie. :wink: Or else I'll start another thread about them. :lol:

 

[jodywy]

How did I know when Julie put this story up the Turner name would come up, Gee maybe the Deseret ( with ranches in Florida, Kanas, Neb, Wyo, Id, Mt, Ut and probally other states, The Floida ranch is listed by itself is usually listed as one of the top 3 biggest ranches) might buy it.With ranch in moutain valleys in my part of the world selling for around $50,000 an AU (even Higher in Jackson Hole) If I had a few more animal units I buy the place in a heart beat if and when mine sold

 

[kolanuraven]

TExAN... I'll send ya a pair of my panties for next Christmas IF you're a good boy!! :wink: :wink:

I can look up ' displaced' also...but that is not the context in which you used it ol' boy!! :wink: :wink:


Bottom line...be it Turner, the LSD Church, the Hutterites etc....it's come down to the old gripe amongst many:

The " HAVE'S " vs " THE HAVE NOT'S"


Other " have' the means to buy.....others " have not"