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Best Place to run Cow/calf ranch ?

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My grandpa-in-law, who established his/our ranch near Midland, SD (30 miles nw of Murdo, efb) left his home in the Lewiston/Clarkson area of WA/ID in the mid 1880's, breaking horses and selling them to Indians, Farmers, Ranchers, and the US Cavalry as far east as St. Paul, MN. He made several trips, going where rumor had the market for horses the highest.

He was searching for good country to establish a cattle ranch, as well as making a living and saving money. He camped one winter, when the horse market plummeted and his horses were not a great commodity, on the banks of the Bad River near the present town site of Midland, SD. There were several good creeks emptying into the Bad R. within a few miles. He determined the best one to be Brave Bull Creek, which headed several miles to the south and south west, near present day Kadoka (celebrating their 100th birthday near end of June....great celebration, BTW).

I believe he was right. There are at least six centennial ranches in the same families today on Brave Bull Creek, two of them belonging to grandsons of Tom Jones (the other two brothers are located ne of Midland, and on the original camp site, though those have not been owned by the family continuously from the start. Some of the ranches on Brave Bull originated before the Jones ranch, I believe.

The grass is strong, with many varieties of native grasses, including Big and Little Bluestem. We have taken the name "Bluestem" for our land LLC, though we refer to it as "Red Grass". We normally graze 12 months of the year, haying only when the grass is covered with more than a foot of snow, or the drought is so severe we won't allow them to graze the grass down to dangerously short levels. That is pretty rare, especially the snow cover. Drought is just a fact of life here, but overall we seem to cope with it. Land prices are the limiting factor. It looks as if it will be impossible for our grandkids to buy land, with the recent sales up in the five to seven hundred dollar range. No way to pay for that with cattle. Only thing would seen to be findind a friendly investor who wants an excellent range manager and doesn't want to be in the cattle business him/herself. On the other hand, there seemed no way cattle could pay for the #40.00 per acre land we bought "way back when", or more costly land purchased a little later in our 49 years of ranching.........but we still have it! Buying our family land back from the IRS in paying death taxes has crippled us more than paying too much for 'outside' land has.

Brave Bull creek was the major source for water, very poor quality, alkali stuff, in wells dug in the creek channel in dry years. Thankfully, we were able to drill a decent artesian well that waters our winter pastures and our homes, though we now have rural water, which may not be the boon we thought it would be. 'They' apparently underestimated the demand and already in the second year of service to our ranch, are calling for stringent conservation. Even to the point of recommending use of other sources such as dams. The few dams we have with water in them are being used first! Most people in our area have had little to NO runoff for several years now.

So, this is great ranch country, with some limitations......nearly all spelled w-a-t-e-r........in beneficial or damaging forms. The greatest losses to this, and the ranch (orginal one, before being divided four ways) was a spring blizzard when yearlings drifted into creeks full of water and snow. Spring blizzards can be calf killers for us to as we calve out on the range in big pastures. Good brushy draws for shelter beat barns and scours problems, in our experience. Plus, we don't have the put up the hay all spring and summer, and haul it out and feed it for three to five months like some areas do. Our calves weith five to seven hundred at late fall weaning and our cows are in the 1100 to 1350 pound range. Mostly black or solid red in color, with a few Longhorns for entertainment.

MRJ
 
I think price per acre/section is misleading at best... Cost per cow calf unit would be much, much more acceptable. I can (If I had it) put 1 million bucks into corn ground around here at 4k an acre and run more cows than you could on that same amount of money out west... Still can't believe the prices I was seeing asked for out west.

I saw a ranch that was priced at 20 million or so out west that ran 2k cows. For 20 million of ground around here I could run... 8 thousand+ probably but no one does it because the ground is "too good" for cows. Granted it would be a 10k acre farm vs a 200k acre ranch but the land value is so skewed out west that it isn't even close to funny (The land around her on the other hand is so skewed by tax exchanges that it is funny). But their are reasons that out west would be much, much better such as the fact that neighbors out west are a bit more accepting of livestock and 2) I think the ability to spread animals out is a big advantage... I was looking at some ground and the best values that I found for cow calf ground was Missouri and even those are way up over what they were 10 years ago.

Level all the homes, move MSU to a different area and I couldn't imagine a much better place than what the Gallatin valley must have been like say, ni 1950.
 
I think the best is where your at,if you can make it work.I am quite content here I know this country and how it performs what you can and can't do.Sure land is expensive but I'm in the cattle business not the land business I will buy some land when I can but renting from retired folks and hunters works fine.The argument is that You throw your money away on rent.

I consider it a business cost same as in my welding shop Price of a trailer is $7000,of that materials cost $5000 that is money I will never see again but I dont have a steel mill or a axel mfg. company so I have to pay for materials.Same in the cow business I don't own pasture and hay ground so I have to pay someone for their contribution to my business.I dont care if I own the land it would be nice but not practical.
 
well, there might be better places up north to raise cattle, but i'm not sure i could make it. :lol: Texas is home......always has been & probably always will be. i like to visit other areas (& see them through the pics everyone posts) but it's always nice to come home. i guess it's a good thing we don't all agree......i sure wouldn't mind having most of you as neighbors but it might get awful crowded if we were all in the same area. :lol:
 
IL Rancher said:
I think price per acre/section is misleading at best... Cost per cow calf unit would be much, much more acceptable. I can (If I had it) put 1 million bucks into corn ground around here at 4k an acre and run more cows than you could on that same amount of money out west... Still can't believe the prices I was seeing asked for out west.

Certainly you would have to consider cost per cow unit vs. cost per land unit. But the same thing you mention about price of corn ground is happening in Texas and maybe everywhere. Range land is now often selling for more than good crop land. If I had the time, energy and money to expand in the cattle business I think I would go out in north central TX and buy some of that good wheat ground maybe even with pivot irrigation on it, put it into improved grass and run stockers. I can't help but think it would be more profitable than growing wheat. Of course about the time you did the cattle bubble would bust. Allan Nation has been saying for some time that range country is fast becoming recreational and hunting country and pricing the rancher out.
It's sad for the young people that want to get into or expand their cattle operation. It's impossible in our area now to buy land and make it cash flow with any Ag enterprise, with the possible exception of poultry houses.
 
Oh, I am sure it is that way in a lot of places EFB. In Illinois for example right now Timbered land is going for sick prices as hunters are buying it up. Real rough pasture ground is going for insane prices too. We started looking around and I am starting to firmly believe that if we want to expand it will be easier to buy the marginal corn ground that people don't really want and turn it into pasture. It is crazy. Land prices are slipping a bit around here this past 12 months. Some ground was going for 4k for big tracts of ground now are down at 3500 an acre and no one is biting... Of course some of the ground in the area,with development potential mostly, is still going insane... I don't know. Nothing like out west but still, crazy.
 
MRJ said:
My grandpa-in-law, who established his/our ranch near Midland, SD (30 miles nw of Murdo, efb) left his home in the Lewiston/Clarkson area of WA/ID in the mid 1880's, breaking horses and selling them to Indians, Farmers, Ranchers, and the US Cavalry as far east as St. Paul, MN. He made several trips, going where rumor had the market for horses the highest.

He was searching for good country to establish a cattle ranch, as well as making a living and saving money. He camped one winter, when the horse market plummeted and his horses were not a great commodity, on the banks of the Bad River near the present town site of Midland, SD. There were several good creeks emptying into the Bad R. within a few miles. He determined the best one to be Brave Bull Creek, which headed several miles to the south and south west, near present day Kadoka (celebrating their 100th birthday near end of June....great celebration, BTW).

I believe he was right. There are at least six centennial ranches in the same families today on Brave Bull Creek, two of them belonging to grandsons of Tom Jones (the other two brothers are located ne of Midland, and on the original camp site, though those have not been owned by the family continuously from the start. Some of the ranches on Brave Bull originated before the Jones ranch, I believe.

The grass is strong, with many varieties of native grasses, including Big and Little Bluestem. We have taken the name "Bluestem" for our land LLC, though we refer to it as "Red Grass". We normally graze 12 months of the year, haying only when the grass is covered with more than a foot of snow, or the drought is so severe we won't allow them to graze the grass down to dangerously short levels. That is pretty rare, especially the snow cover. Drought is just a fact of life here, but overall we seem to cope with it. Land prices are the limiting factor. It looks as if it will be impossible for our grandkids to buy land, with the recent sales up in the five to seven hundred dollar range. No way to pay for that with cattle. Only thing would seen to be findind a friendly investor who wants an excellent range manager and doesn't want to be in the cattle business him/herself. On the other hand, there seemed no way cattle could pay for the #40.00 per acre land we bought "way back when", or more costly land purchased a little later in our 49 years of ranching.........but we still have it! Buying our family land back from the IRS in paying death taxes has crippled us more than paying too much for 'outside' land has.

Brave Bull creek was the major source for water, very poor quality, alkali stuff, in wells dug in the creek channel in dry years. Thankfully, we were able to drill a decent artesian well that waters our winter pastures and our homes, though we now have rural water, which may not be the boon we thought it would be. 'They' apparently underestimated the demand and already in the second year of service to our ranch, are calling for stringent conservation. Even to the point of recommending use of other sources such as dams. The few dams we have with water in them are being used first! Most people in our area have had little to NO runoff for several years now.

So, this is great ranch country, with some limitations......nearly all spelled w-a-t-e-r........in beneficial or damaging forms. The greatest losses to this, and the ranch (orginal one, before being divided four ways) was a spring blizzard when yearlings drifted into creeks full of water and snow. Spring blizzards can be calf killers for us to as we calve out on the range in big pastures. Good brushy draws for shelter beat barns and scours problems, in our experience. Plus, we don't have the put up the hay all spring and summer, and haul it out and feed it for three to five months like some areas do. Our calves weith five to seven hundred at late fall weaning and our cows are in the 1100 to 1350 pound range. Mostly black or solid red in color, with a few Longhorns for entertainment.

MRJ
Great job MRJ! Makes me wish our place was a little closer. We got to drive by your place, the turnoff and your sign anyway, on the way to Pierre a couple times this Spring, and wondering if you all were home and how things were going. Renewing my memebership with NCBA a short time ago was a good reminder of all of the wisdom you've brought to this forum over the last few years. Thanks.
 
I am happy right where I'm at. I went to school and recieved a two year degree in ag business. (It was the funnest 3 and a half years of my life) :D I always wanted to be where I am now but the biggest bonus is I get to share it with the one I care the most about... my wife.

have a good one

lazy ace
 
MRJ--
Don't you have a lot of that-Pierre Shale?
About 150 miles N.W. it's more sand and wonderful water.
 
Our place is extreme North Central Kansas and I probably wouldn't leave the area, about 50/50 farmland and pasture so there is always abundant food supply running cows on stalks and what not through the winter and the grass is real good for the most part. I dunno about moving much further west as it seems the closer to Belleville and then Jewell county the drier it gets and the rougher stuff looks. We get burned up easily enough the way it is.
 
Jake, if you are in NC KS and east of Belleville you must not be too far from Marysville. I used to be the County Agent there and have an uncle by marriage there that raises Charolais. When I was there Marshall Co. was the number 1 milo county in KS. But that might have been before you were born :lol:
 
AS far as where the best grass is, I've had several old timers tell me if you want to know where the strongest grass is in the country just study where the buffalo roamed. I guess it makes sense.
 
efb said:
Jake, if you are in NC KS and east of Belleville you must not be too far from Marysville. I used to be the County Agent there and have an uncle by marriage there that raises Charolais. When I was there Marshall Co. was the number 1 milo county in KS. But that might have been before you were born :lol:

Grandpa's place is right smack in the middle of Belleville and Marysville. other set of grandparents are from Axtell. I wouldn't mind owning a couple of sections of grass along the Washington, Marshal line, seems between our place and Hiawatha is pretty good country.
 
MRJ,

Your Grandad was in an area I like A LOT!....Lewiston has an area above it called Grangeville....High Altitude where you can summer graze, then winter on the breaks of the Snake River....

If cost weren't an issue, I'd summer in either Baker or Wallowa County (Oregon) and winter in the Columbia Basin...I almost do that now, LOL....

I liked the looks of the cattle in a lot of Western montana, but I don't see an ideal wintering option there...Unless maybe you go south into Idaho and over towards Caldwell.....Hmmm...Another favorite would be summer up towards McCall, then winter in the Caldwell area...


But I am only describing areas I have been to,


PPRM
 
Jake said:
Our place is extreme North Central Kansas and I probably wouldn't leave the area, about 50/50 farmland and pasture so there is always abundant food supply running cows on stalks and what not through the winter and the grass is real good for the most part. I dunno about moving much further west as it seems the closer to Belleville and then Jewell county the drier it gets and the rougher stuff looks. We get burned up easily enough the way it is.

don't know Jake, I am just a mile west of the Republic / Jewell county line, and I just dumped out 5 1/2 inches of rain over the past week......

that, plus the little bit of water they released from Harlan County, for us to irrigate with, our crops are looking pretty good!

now the west half of Jewell, and then Smith county look pretty much desert - like.
 
jigs said:
Jake said:
Our place is extreme North Central Kansas and I probably wouldn't leave the area, about 50/50 farmland and pasture so there is always abundant food supply running cows on stalks and what not through the winter and the grass is real good for the most part. I dunno about moving much further west as it seems the closer to Belleville and then Jewell county the drier it gets and the rougher stuff looks. We get burned up easily enough the way it is.

don't know Jake, I am just a mile west of the Republic / Jewell county line, and I just dumped out 5 1/2 inches of rain over the past week......

that, plus the little bit of water they released from Harlan County, for us to irrigate with, our crops are looking pretty good!

now the west half of Jewell, and then Smith county look pretty much desert - like.

Jigs your in the good part of Jewell then. I dunno for sure what the total rainfall was at the home place last week but it will sure help things.
 
The best place I've been through would have to be near Emmett Nebraska, or close to O'Neil, NE. I also went to South Dakota this spring and the area south of Hot Springs, SD maybe 10-20 miles looked like a nice place also. I do not recommend the great NE Colorado Desert.
 
Go straight north of Billings 900 miles then three miles west and you be right there. Good enough country to make a living but tough enough to keep the wanna-be's and hobby ranchers out. you can buy land to run cows here for under $2,000 a cow unit. Boone and Crockett whitetail,bear and moose within walking distance of our door-great fishing-sweet water and the odd wolf to spice things up. Our ranch is only 90 years old because our country wasn't settled till then.
 

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