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Black Baldy Bulls (sw)

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cowboyup

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sw,
When I went by the college station yesterday I saw what appeared to be a black baldy bull and wondered if you knew the story and or results.

Has anybody else used black baldy bulls and what kind of results have you seen?
 
I don't know what you saw, could be a black Simmental, they have been doing that genetics study with the Simmental Assoc. for the last five years, it was all AI but maybe now they are cleaning up with some of them. If you know Pete Olind, stop in on your way by and ask him what is going on, he will tell you what you need to know.
 
I don't know Pete.

He sure didn't look like any black simmental that I have ever seen but he sure could be.

Just got me curious when I saw him and then my mind went wondering if anybody ran black baldy bulls. I guess I've never run across any out on the range.
 
At Red Bluff or the Towne Farm?


They have been doing the pheromone research at Towne Farm, and kept back some Black Baldie commercial calves as bulls for that project.

Just a guess, but that might be what you might have seen.

Badlands
 
Badlands said:
At Red Bluff or the Towne Farm?


They have been doing the pheromone research at Towne Farm, and kept back some Black Baldie commercial calves as bulls for that project.

Just a guess, but that might be what you might have seen.

Badlands
Click to expand...



It was at Red Bluff. This was definately a mature bull.
 
I have some cows that are sired by a black baldy bull they were nice calves and are great cows.It should work just fine hell all the other (BLACK) breeds are angus and whatever mixed anyhow just as well use a hereford angus cross.They are busy promoteing every other composite anyhow.We ai'ed a super good Shorthorn cow to a Horned hereford bull hopeing for a bull calf to use on some straight black cows.Could'nt be anyworse than breeding some 4 way crossed cows to a Sim/Angus or whatever else there is..
 
It has always surprised me that some of the Hereford breeders don't breed a few of their cows, especially the heifers, to some angus bulls and sell the baldy bulls and heifers...I always thought since the hereford/angus makes such a good cow- why not try the bulls too...

Thirty years ago we used some hereford/simmental cross bulls for a few years..Really produced some nice big calves and when the baldy heifers sired by them were kept for cows they were great...Only disadvantages I found was some high birthweights and calving problems and horns....Sometimes I think that growth heterosis sets in before they are born......
 
Right on, Oldtimer, I've thought the same thing many times. Everybody likes a baldie cow, but not as many want to buy a Hereford bull. Of course, I don't see you Angus guys breeding to Hereford bulls.

As I thought about it some more, I would bet that the bull you saw was one of the ones I described.

I say this because when I was at MSU, we Wintered all the bulls at Red Bluff.

Badlands
 
The biggest problem with crossbred or composite bulls is they sire 2 or more sets of calves. By that I mean an Angus/Simm will sire some Angus type calves and some Simm type calves.

The odds are reduced somewhat if the cows are the same composite, but then they can throw 3 types, 1/4 simm type, 1/4 angus type and 1/2 angus/simm cross types.

Using Angus/Hereford bulls, they seem to either throw Black calves (so just use an Angus bull) or they throw Hereford looking calves, some which are black with the featherneck.

Using composites actually loses your hybrid boost in many instances.

Another factor involved is that composite bulls are often from the poorer cows of a breed that can't compete in a purebred situation. I have seen Angus cows that wouldn't raise a 600 pound Angus calf, but the owner has a market for those crossbred bulls so he breeds her Simmental. The calf weans at over 700 and sells for good money. The buyer never went back, he got lots of little calves and a few big Simmental type calves.
 
Well if you use purebred Angus bulls they'll all be black-will they all be good not always. Will they be more even hanging onthe rail-maybe-maybe not. A good stockman who uses Xbred bulls can raise pretty darn uniform calves. However if you are planning on using Xbreds you might as well raise them yourself out of your best commercial cows-they're adapted to your management or lack of it in my case. I've seen some xbred herds were like peas in a pod and some purebred herds that had a dog from every town. It's not so much genetics you use but how you use them. There's a place for purebred and crossbred bulls in the beef business it's up to you to decide if it's your place.
 
I might regret it but this year I saved a Hereford-sired bull calf from one of my black bronchial-faced baldy cows.

His mama is just a nice mannered solid cow that goes about her business. She has a perfect, well balanced udder with small black teats.

He is deep red, horned, (now dehorned) and has near perfect traditional Hereford markings. He also has lots of red pigment around his eyes and scrotum.

I plan on using him on my younger black and baldy cows this summer. I'll know by this time in 2009 how my experiment turns out! :wink:
 
Northern Rancher, We have a commercial cow herd of about 50 head. I use a registered angus but all of the calves are not black, it's about 50/50. Would this be a fault in the bull or just the way things occur when crossing with a commercial herd?
 
John SD said:
I might regret it but this year I saved a Hereford-sired bull calf from one of my black bronchial-faced baldy cows.

His mama is just a nice mannered solid cow that goes about her business. She has a perfect, well balanced udder with small black teats.

He is deep red, horned, (now dehorned) and has near perfect traditional Hereford markings. He also has lots of red pigment around his eyes and scrotum.

I plan on using him on my younger black and baldy cows this summer. I'll know by this time in 2009 how my experiment turns out! :wink:
Click to expand...

My guess is that you will have some calves out of the baldy cows that will look to be straight Hereford. They will have the white crest on their neck, white legs, and a white switch on their tails. Some will be red and some will be black, but they will have the traditional Hereford color patterns. Your calves should be of good uniform quality, but the colors will not show uniformity.

If there is a way to sort your cows before breeding, my suggestion would be to use the white-faced bull on straight black cows and use straight black bulls on your baldy cows.

**Disclaimer** All information received on Ranchers.Net is free advice, and only worth what was paid for it. :wink: :)
 
Usually a purebred, registered Angus bull should throw black calves. The main exception to this is crossed on Charolais. The Charolais have a muter gene for color which dilutes the color. That is why you get the smokey blacks and reds. The only other exception to the black is the white of a Herford. It takes about 3 or 4 generations to totally breed the white out of a herford cross. If you are getting a lot of red calves out of an angus bull, I'd say it was the bull.
 
If you breed multi breed cows to a black bull, anything is possible.

If you start with pure cattle then the results will be as expected.

Throw in 10% Simmental to a group of Hereford cows. The cows look straightbred but the mixed color calves will tell the story.

Too many people with cattle just think color is everything, or they just can't see breed traits.

I went into a pen of 250 black and bwf heifers from a customer of mine that started with a rag tag herd of cows. He figured the heifers were as even as can be. I started telling him the background of the cows each heifer was from. I had never seen his cows. His mouth dropped open and he was shocked I could tell the difference. This guy was an excellent cowboy, ran 600 cows, had good weaning rates etc. but he didn't see the differences past color.

If you mix the genetics too much, you end up with a mongrelized blend. They may be even, but are they exceptional? Use some proven purelines and cross them and they will be exceptional.
 
We used to get a few red calves every year when using registered Angus bulls on our crossbred cows. The Hereford, Shorthorn and Tarentaise blood in them was enough to throw a kicker out here and there. Since using Galloway bulls, there's alot less of it. Don't ask me to explain that, but their 'blackness' seems to trump the Angus 'blackness'.
 
With all due respect some of the previous color explantions are absolutely incorrect. Black is dominant hence the term Homozygous black. There is one variance of black and that is grey. Gray is introduced by the diluter gene carried by the non-black parent. If one parent is truly homozygous black they will only throw black or grey calves not red.

I have seen some pretty pathetic production and performance out of so called "purebreds" of all breeds. When it comes to the basics of the beef business the only so called free lunch is HETEROSIS or cross breeding. It's odd how it is usually purebred breeders of British cattle who seem to believe they are the only game in town and that optimizing genetics in cattle is so much different than hogs or poultry. Those competing industries have long recognized the benfits of crossbreeding but do it in a controlled and proper fashion. There are Beef seedstock producers doing the same with great success.
 
Most times the mongrel crossbreds are more profitable than the 'exceptionable' purebreds.' tell me not what your genetics did for you-tell me what they'll do for me'. The longer you retain ownership on calves the less colour matters in an auction mart sort. Purebred breeders should be flattered when their breed of choice proves it's worthiness in a crossbreeding situation-there's rancher's that pay their taxes doing it both ways.
 

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