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Disagreeable

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The Republican controlled Congress is starting to get nervous, I guess. They're actually going to have hearings on what went wrong with FEMA. Guess what they'll find? Total incompetence from Bush on down to his political appointees.

Link below; my emphasis.

""It was very much an eye-opener," said Castleman, a Republican appointee of President Bush who left FEMA in December for the private sector. "A number of things were identified that we had to deal with, not all of them were solved."

Still, Castleman found it hard to square the lessons he and others learned from the exercise with the frustratingly slow response to the disaster that has unfolded in the wake of Katrina. From the Louisiana Superdome in New Orleans to the Mississippi and Alabama communities along the Gulf Coast, hurricane survivors have decried the lack of water, food and security and the slowness of the federal relief efforts.

"It's hard for everyone to understand why buttons weren't pushed earlier on," Castleman said of the federal response."


"...But many suspected that FEMA's apparent problems in getting life-sustaining supplies to survivors and buses to evacuate them from New Orleans--delays even Bush called "not acceptable"--stemmed partly from changes at the agency during the Bush years. Experts have long warned that the moves would weaken the agency's ability to effectively respond to natural disasters."

"...And there isn't an experienced disaster-response expert at the top of the agency as there was when James Lee Witt ran it during the 1990s. Before Michael Brown, the current head, joined the agency as its legal counsel, he was with the International Arabian Horse Association."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509030220sep03,1,5525666.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true
 

kolanuraven

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Bush had said earlier in a speech that the problems in New Orleans were a " temporary disruption". WHAT???!!!! This is major and the effect will be felt nation/world wide for years to come. New Orleans is a MAJOR port, 1/5 of all the nations goods come and go through that port. NOt just the crap from China...but feed and grain, sugar and timber, you name it.

Bush should be impeached! Ok...the nation carried a collectibe " blush" cause Clinton was a bit free with his nether regions....SO WHAT!!! A nation got it's panties in a wad over that and NOW ignores that it took 4 days to get food and water to these people. The statement that they were unable to get in...Bull Shite!! The news reporters got in there within a matter of hours.

And did you notice that the food and aid seemed to arrive on the SAME DAY and within almost the SAME HOUR as Bush got there. He says for citizens not to buy gas unless they need it....well he can keep his butt in DC not waste fuel for AF One and all the other aircraft that support him on a trip.

BUT....whom did he call on to help out....BILL CLINTON!!!!
 

Disagreeable

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Hey, kolanuraven, it's good to see you again. I hope you're doing well.

Yes, I had to laugh yesterday at Bush standing there with his arms around two black ladies, a smirky smile on his face, posing for photos. I hope the New Orleans Mayor gave him an earfull on their chopper ride over the city.

I think he's going to need those photos. There seems to be a new mood in Congress.
 

Steve

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Katrina spent only a few hours over South Florida. Katrina was predicted to go across South and Southwest Florida. However, Katrina moved farther to the south than expected and soon regained hurricane strength after emerging into the Gulf of Mexico on the morning of August 26. Katrina then quickly strengthened to Category 2 and its pressure dropped to 971 mbar, which prompted a special update from the NHC at 11:30 a.m. EDT (1530 UTC). At 5:00 a.m. EDT (0900 UTC) on August 27, Katrina's pressure dropped to 945 mbar and it was upgraded to Category 3. The same day President Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana, two days before the hurricane made landfall [6].

At 12:40 a.m. CDT (0540 UTC) on August 28, Katrina was upgraded to Category 4. Later that morning, Katrina went through a period of rapid intensification, with its maximum sustained winds reaching as high as 175 mph (280 km/h) (well above the Category 5 threshold of 156 mph (250 km/h)) and a pressure of 906 mbar by 1:00 p.m. CDT. Nonetheless, on August 29 the system made landfall as a strong Category 4 hurricane at 6:15 a.m. CDT near Buras-Triumph, Louisiana with maximum sustained winds of 145 mph (235 km/h).

Hurricane Katrina was a hurricane that caused extensive and severe damage over the southeastern United States on August 29, 2005,

Katrina may eventually be classified as the worst natural disaster to hit the United States to date.

Katrina was the third most intense hurricane to hit the United States in recorded history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina

As the Category 4 the storm surged ashore just east of New Orleans, Louisiana, on Monday, FEMA had medical teams, rescue squads and groups prepared to supply food and water poised in a semicircle around the city, its director, Michael Brown, said.

The president made sure the federal response would not be delayed by declaring emergencies in Mississippi, Florida and Alabama just hours after a similar declaration for Louisiana. Such declarations make federal aid available to assist with disaster relief, but they are rarely made before a storm even hits.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/29/katrina.washington.ap/

WASHINGTON - Baby formula from the Agriculture Department, communications equipment and medical teams from the Defense Department and generators, water and ice from the
Federal Emergency Management Agency are among the assistance ready for the victims of Hurricane Katrina.

Brown says FEMA's coffers are filled nicely by President Bush and Congress,
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/29/earlyshow/main799699.shtml

President Bush, as he readied the federal government for a massive relief effort, on Sunday urged people in the path of Hurricane Katrina to forget anything but their safety and move to higher ground as instructed.


With forecasters warning of a category five storm, the president made sure the federal response would not be delayed by already declaring emergencies in Mississippi, Florida and Alabama just hours after a similar declaration for Louisiana. Such declarations make federal aid available to assist with disaster relief, but they are rarely made before a storm even hits. 8/28/2005.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-08-28-katrina-washington_x.htm

Maybe you shoud check the date "8/28/2005" Sunday, and the Quote:
, but they are rarely made before a storm even hits.

Maybe in your rush to Bash Bush you could check out some " facts" instead of the typical liberal agenda....
 

Steve

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Heads of Fema:
John Macy, 1979-1981, FEMA's first director
Bernhard Gallagher 1981
John W. McConnell 1981
Louis O. Giuffrida, 1981-1985
Julius W. Becton, Jr., 1985-1989
Robert H. Morris, 1989-1990
Jerry D. Jennings, 1990
Wallace E. Stickney, 1990-1993
James Lee Witt, 1993-2001
Joe Allbaugh, 2001-2003
Michael Brown, 2003-

James Lee Witt ....

Qualifications: elected County Judge of Yell County, reelected to the post 6 times, Witt was a charter Board Chairman of Child Development

"On September 3, 2005, he was hired oversee reconstruction efforts in the wake of Hurricane Katrina."



Michael D. Brown......

Brown holds a B.A. in Public Administration,

His background in state and local government also includes serving as an assistant city manager with emergency services oversight ,

Brown joined FEMA as Deputy Director, Shortly after the September 11th terrorist attacks,

While I would rather have the "promotions from "within" the ranks at Fema, seldom is that an option, Most (all) the presidents nominate another politician to the Job, Clintons nominee was no differant, no Qualifications, Thank God that a Major disastor of this size didn't happen, ( at least he could have held court for the looters ) ....
 

kolanuraven

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Post and quote all you want..... but "Dubya" screwed up on this one.

He is THE PRESIDENT....and is it not part of any job description for the " boss" to take the blame for his team, underlings, employees, etc???


I think we just put several CEO's in jail on this same premise.....so he's The Prez. so if he, himself says things were handled improperly in regards to the hurricane.....that means he's to take the blame...cause he's THE BOSS!
 
A

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Having worked with them for years- FEMA is a JOKE...It is so bureaucracy heavy that it can't function- overloaded with paper shuffling and chiefs- it is tied up under such a heavy load of laws on who can do what- or what has to be done legally before they can do this or that...Everything has to be agreed upon and signed off on (in quadruplicate) by everyone from the county dog catcher to the President before they can even turn a key.....

Smartest thing that occurred in the south was to send in the military- at least their chain of command works.......
 

jodywy

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a friend posted this at another site ...
My pet peeve is the mayor of NO blasting the Feds for not doing enough, fast enough.

Every city in the US must have a response to disaster plan. The infrastructure should have been in place to at least start helping themselves until the feds could get in place.

The Federal government is a very large, ponderous group with many opposites. Takes a while to get moving.

The heroes of 9/11 were not Federal, but were locals. I guess none of the heroes of New Orleans got any support from the local powers that be.

Sorry, this may tend to ramble, but what I mean to say is most of the problem in New Orleans lies in the mayor's office.

If you wait for the Feds to take care of you, instead of making an effort to take care of yourself, one day the feds will fail, and you will die.

Sort of nature's way of cleaning the gene pool.


then another
I just got the chance to really sit and listen to my friend in LA actually talk about what he thinks and feels for the first time.....I won't cut and paste the conversation because it is fairly long BUT here is the short version.

He says (and he is qualifying his statements to only what he KNOWS to be true) President Bush declared the state a disaster area 36 hours before the hurricane hit...something he points out is rarely if ever done....and reminds us all that the ONLY person with the authority to call in the State Police and the National Guard is the governor of the state. He says President Bush did in fact ASK the governor of LA on the Friday BEFORE the hurricane to turn over authority for the rescue, security and evacuation to the federal government and she refused to do so. He asked her again on Friday when he toured the 'disaster area'.....and she told him she needed 24 hours to think about it!

He agrees that FEMA may not have been as prepared as it could have been but says that what he calls "The Battle of New Orleans" was actually lost in the first 12 hours when there was no strong contingent of National Guard and police presence armed to the teeth present in the streets of New Orleans....once the gangs started to take control of the city, rescue and evacuation efforts were not just difficult but made nearly impossible.

He also points out that virtually HUNDREDS of city and school buses literally under the control of the New Orleans officials were NOT used at the outset of the mandatory evacuation to remove poor people in vulnerable areas who had no transportation and who were the ones we all saw at the Superdome and the Convention Center in such horrendous conditions. And that those buses are now sitting in lots and garages flooded and totally useless! They could have been used to remove all or most of those folks at the Dome and the convention center BEFORE the hurricane and they would never have been at the Dome and the Convention Center in the first place! He says the federal government may have some culpability....but in his opinion it comes nowhere even close to that of the Mayor of New Orleans, and the Governor of LA....

Now why do you suppose the press couldn't do their homework and find all that out before they go running the federal government and the federal rescue effort down in the face of the nation and the entire world? And I haven't seen any of that in the press coverage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My friend Dan isn't even a news reporter....just a business person in Baton Rouge......and I remember him as being excited when this particular governor was elected!
 

Cal

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jodywy said:
a friend posted this at another site ...
My pet peeve is the mayor of NO blasting the Feds for not doing enough, fast enough.

Every city in the US must have a response to disaster plan. The infrastructure should have been in place to at least start helping themselves until the feds could get in place.

The Federal government is a very large, ponderous group with many opposites. Takes a while to get moving.

The heroes of 9/11 were not Federal, but were locals. I guess none of the heroes of New Orleans got any support from the local powers that be.

Sorry, this may tend to ramble, but what I mean to say is most of the problem in New Orleans lies in the mayor's office.

If you wait for the Feds to take care of you, instead of making an effort to take care of yourself, one day the feds will fail, and you will die.

Sort of nature's way of cleaning the gene pool.


then another
I just got the chance to really sit and listen to my friend in LA actually talk about what he thinks and feels for the first time.....I won't cut and paste the conversation because it is fairly long BUT here is the short version.

He says (and he is qualifying his statements to only what he KNOWS to be true) President Bush declared the state a disaster area 36 hours before the hurricane hit...something he points out is rarely if ever done....and reminds us all that the ONLY person with the authority to call in the State Police and the National Guard is the governor of the state. He says President Bush did in fact ASK the governor of LA on the Friday BEFORE the hurricane to turn over authority for the rescue, security and evacuation to the federal government and she refused to do so. He asked her again on Friday when he toured the 'disaster area'.....and she told him she needed 24 hours to think about it!

He agrees that FEMA may not have been as prepared as it could have been but says that what he calls "The Battle of New Orleans" was actually lost in the first 12 hours when there was no strong contingent of National Guard and police presence armed to the teeth present in the streets of New Orleans....once the gangs started to take control of the city, rescue and evacuation efforts were not just difficult but made nearly impossible.

He also points out that virtually HUNDREDS of city and school buses literally under the control of the New Orleans officials were NOT used at the outset of the mandatory evacuation to remove poor people in vulnerable areas who had no transportation and who were the ones we all saw at the Superdome and the Convention Center in such horrendous conditions. And that those buses are now sitting in lots and garages flooded and totally useless! They could have been used to remove all or most of those folks at the Dome and the convention center BEFORE the hurricane and they would never have been at the Dome and the Convention Center in the first place! He says the federal government may have some culpability....but in his opinion it comes nowhere even close to that of the Mayor of New Orleans, and the Governor of LA....

Now why do you suppose the press couldn't do their homework and find all that out before they go running the federal government and the federal rescue effort down in the face of the nation and the entire world? And I haven't seen any of that in the press coverage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My friend Dan isn't even a news reporter....just a business person in Baton Rouge......and I remember him as being excited when this particular governor was elected!

The Bush Bashers will bash Bush, irregardless. The mayor and governor, and other local officials dropped the ball big time in not coordinating a massive effort to remove those who could not help themselves. Those getting ready for a hurricane party were probably beyond help. The man on the news crying about his mother drowning in a nursing home only brought to mind for me, what kind of man would leave his mother in a home with a category 5 hurricane forecasted, and the President calling for total evacuation? Doesn't matter what part of the country he was in, if he was worth his salt he would have gotten something done beforehand.

Another thought I had, was the number of people remaining that are likely addicts, and the withdrawls that they are likely going through. Probably makes them way more desperate and dangerous than anyone with actual physical needs, like food and water.
 

kolanuraven

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Easy for you to be an armchair quarterback.....when was the last time SD had a hurricane?????
 

Disagreeable

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Steve said:
Katrina spent only a few hours over South Florida. Katrina was predicted to go across South and Southwest Florida. However, Katrina moved farther to the south than expected and soon regained hurricane strength after emerging into the Gulf of Mexico on the morning of August 26. Katrina then quickly strengthened to Category 2 and its pressure dropped to 971 mbar, which prompted a special update from the NHC at 11:30 a.m. EDT (1530 UTC). At 5:00 a.m. EDT (0900 UTC) on August 27, Katrina's pressure dropped to 945 mbar and it was upgraded to Category 3. The same day President Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana, two days before the hurricane made landfall [6].

At 12:40 a.m. CDT (0540 UTC) on August 28, Katrina was upgraded to Category 4. Later that morning, Katrina went through a period of rapid intensification, with its maximum sustained winds reaching as high as 175 mph (280 km/h) (well above the Category 5 threshold of 156 mph (250 km/h)) and a pressure of 906 mbar by 1:00 p.m. CDT. Nonetheless, on August 29 the system made landfall as a strong Category 4 hurricane at 6:15 a.m. CDT near Buras-Triumph, Louisiana with maximum sustained winds of 145 mph (235 km/h).

Hurricane Katrina was a hurricane that caused extensive and severe damage over the southeastern United States on August 29, 2005,

Katrina may eventually be classified as the worst natural disaster to hit the United States to date.

Katrina was the third most intense hurricane to hit the United States in recorded history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina

As the Category 4 the storm surged ashore just east of New Orleans, Louisiana, on Monday, FEMA had medical teams, rescue squads and groups prepared to supply food and water poised in a semicircle around the city, its director, Michael Brown, said.

The president made sure the federal response would not be delayed by declaring emergencies in Mississippi, Florida and Alabama just hours after a similar declaration for Louisiana. Such declarations make federal aid available to assist with disaster relief, but they are rarely made before a storm even hits.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/29/katrina.washington.ap/

WASHINGTON - Baby formula from the Agriculture Department, communications equipment and medical teams from the Defense Department and generators, water and ice from the
Federal Emergency Management Agency are among the assistance ready for the victims of Hurricane Katrina.

Brown says FEMA's coffers are filled nicely by President Bush and Congress,
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/29/earlyshow/main799699.shtml

President Bush, as he readied the federal government for a massive relief effort, on Sunday urged people in the path of Hurricane Katrina to forget anything but their safety and move to higher ground as instructed.


With forecasters warning of a category five storm, the president made sure the federal response would not be delayed by already declaring emergencies in Mississippi, Florida and Alabama just hours after a similar declaration for Louisiana. Such declarations make federal aid available to assist with disaster relief, but they are rarely made before a storm even hits. 8/28/2005.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-08-28-katrina-washington_x.htm

Maybe you shoud check the date "8/28/2005" Sunday, and the Quote:
, but they are rarely made before a storm even hits.

Maybe in your rush to Bash Bush you could check out some " facts" instead of the typical liberal agenda....

Steve, you can put out all the links to press conferences, political statements, whatever you want. But the world sat for four or five days in their living rooms and watched Americans die literally before their very eyes. We saw newsmen, news choppers over the city BUT THERE WAS NO FEMA. There was no food, there was no water, very little Guard presence. Hundreds of people died because of the neglect of this government. We saw desperate mothers watching their small babies dying from dehydration. We saw an elderly woman sitting beside the body of her dead husband as he decomposed after they were dropped off by police and told someone would come for them. We say the bodies of elderly men in wheel chairs coverd with blankets. And we saw Michael Brown, FEMA's HEAD, say: Oh, I didn't know there was anyone in the Convention Center! We saw cops from other areas turned back when they wanted to help, we saw Walmart trucks filled with food and water refused admittance. For once I agree with George W. Bush: This is unacceptable. But we'll disagree on whose fault it is. It's Bush's fault. He's the Commander in Chief, he's the head of the US Government; he created Homeland Security and shorted FEMA's budget; he took money that should have been used for upgrading levees and spent it on his own personal war in Iraq..... Our government is being run by incompetent people and it gets more obvious every day.
 

nenmrancher

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Disagreeable, acccording to you everything is Bushes fault, have you stopped for a moment and thought that maybe the state and local goverments might have had something to do with the whole mess as well?
 

Cal

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kolanuraven said:
Easy for you to be an armchair quarterback.....when was the last time SD had a hurricane?????

So everyone that chose to not evacuate when the President ordered an evacuation are not at fault and he is??

BTW, I understand there is more to the story about that guy crying his eyes out because "they" let his mother drown in the nursing home. Radio reported that she had been calling him to come get her out of there and take her to safety for the days prior to the deadly storm, and he did nothing. . . imagine that.
 

Steve

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Easy for you to be an armchair quarterback.....when was the last time SD had a hurricane?????

easy to critize others. but let me share some of my personnel experiance with Hurricanes, typhoons and Nor-easters,,,

I have personnally been through four Hurricanes, (okey two typhoons and two hurricanes,)

One in Gaum and the south china sea, our ship was "forced to delay" to accomidate a small contingiant that would not evacuate forcing us to ride it out over a week in the storm itself,

the second (Iwa) was while stationed in Hawaii, there was water to the second floor of our home, and unfortunatly nowhere to evacutate to,

Third was in Conniticutt, ( Gloria ) in which I was forced to stay, while my new wife was put on a bus to a shelter in New York,

Forth in South Carolina ( Hugo ) which I was sent to assist prior to it hitting by taking a Mine hunter to sea to ride out the storm, Worst boat ride of my life,,,,

add in the countless Nor-easter we recieve here and I can say that when the Authorities ask you to leave it is so they can deal with those who can not leave,

The extra burdan placed by the stupid, and the thugs, takes help from those in need,

I currently live on a barrier island, on a pennesula between the ocean and the Delaware bay, Hurricanes "seldon hit" but when they have "nothing much was left, ,,,we get several Nor-easters each year doing some degree of damage, Most here are used to moving thier car to high ground, stocking up, and the ussual Hurricane/ nor easter drill, type stuff because it is routine, but when it hits few are "really prepared"

Even on our little island homes have burnt to the ground when surrounded by water, fire equipment unable to respond, the police are often in row poats with small out boards as even though there is water every where, it's depth is insufficiant for a boat of any size required to respond to an emergancy,

even with one of the largest Coast Gaurd bases in the country people still drown in these storms, some do not understand the currents, some can't swim, some throw the anchor off the stern, and swamp thier small boats that they thought could bring them to safety.

when Gas mains fill with water, and pilot lights go out, few think to shut off thier gas, only to have thier home fill with fumes and even explode,

going with out power for a few days is not uncommon, and even with a filter system on our water lines the plentiful water is undrinkable,,,

I've lost a car to the water, (couldn't take it when I left, and didn't have time to take it to my property off shore ( our term for the mainland ) ...

There is plenty of blame if you want to Just blame someone, but having lived through flooding and the threat of this type of storm for the 20 plus years of my life, I can say that unless you have been in a situation such as this, you would not be able to understand the limitations of the people that are tasked with aiding those in a flood situation of this porportions.



and maybe you forgot about the floods in North Dakota or Rapid flood, or the flooding in the eastern part of the state in the 80's, I remember Lake Thompson and lake Henry, were Pastures, now they are again full of fish, as well as the roads and farms that were there for almost a hundred years ................

so now kolanuraven what experiance do you have to JUDGE,
 

Steve

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For once I agree with George W. Bush: This is unacceptable. But we'll disagree on whose fault it is.

At each level of a organization, a person is put in charge to perform that task, most organizations hire, and train individuals to perform a job, our goverment being no differnt, and just as the people were required to do thier part within the scope of the operation, "few" could count on it being the Worst natural disaster this country ever saw.



In our area when the flooding makes roads impassable, small boats are used, and the "local" rescue units try to respond, but they often fail....a row boat does not make a good replacement for an ambulance. it was only this year that we purchased a fire/ rescue response Jetboat, ( only after suffering through the loss of an entire apartment complex was the boat put on the budget, ) the one boat cost over $120,000....and it can resue three healthy people with a crew of three, Driver, EMT, and fire rescue person, or it can accomadate one ill person.

It is a limitation......of people and equipmant and to expect them to prevail is not a fair judgement, all you and the press are doing is setting unfair expectations on strained and stressed resue personnel, in the months following this disaster, losses will continue in the form of suicides, brought on by the stress of not being able to prevail, and people like Disagreeable, the media and Kolanuraven will only deepen the remourse of these fine HEROS

So each time I hear of the high suicide rate besieging Rescue Responders I'll know who to blame......All those placing blame now...
 

kolanuraven

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Steve:


Hurricane Camile, Hurricane Betsy, Hurricane Ivan, Floyd, should I go on....been there, got the T shirt!!

And you stated yourself that once when you had water coming in there was " no where to go". There you just said it.....some of the folks HAD NO WHERE TO GO and no means to get out.

These storms are WAY different from water being across a rock road....it drains away...
 

Steve

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On the island of Hawaii, we had nowhere to go...every place else I was either ordered to stay, (while putting my family on a Bus) or I evacuated when told...Many times before being told....

As for being differant from the Floods in South Dakota, maybe you missed the irony, Lake Thompson, and Lake Henry were once dry lakes, and were that way for a long time, my Grandfather moved a barn across lake Henry during the depression, when the rain started, it wiped out many long astablished farms, and unlike your words, the water crossing a rock road, it didn't go away, it is now one of the largest lakes in South dakota...

The Rapid Flood was swift and Violant, Few headed the last minute warnings and while the water was gone soon after the Dam burst, it was none the less tragic,

While I know little of the North Dakota Flooding, I believe that when the River crested at over 50 to 60 foot above flood stage it did not Just drain away,

In our Area, if it Just Flooded and drained away, we would call it a high tide, ( which I see every full moon, and is the wind is wrong, more often,) our storms are not to be trifled with, as many who do find themselves needing rescued, taking valuable limited resources from those truely in need...

All these Left death and distruction, the differance being not in how the Federal Goverment responded, but in How the people responded,,,,,

I guess the big question for you is did you leave when told to evacuate, or stay to have to be rescued compounding the relief efforts?

By the pride you have in your T-shirt, I would say you were part of the problem, one of those the relief workers had to deal with before attending to those that really needed help................................................
 

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I almost forgot about Floyd, Maybe because we boarded up and left only to see it change course and hit where we went for safe shelter,

Ivan was to the east of us so we dealt with the Nor-easter it spawned,

Isabele was to our south, so other then no power and high winds, and tidal flooding we were safe at home,

I could go through the complete list, but the point is the ones I remember most and listed were the ones I had to stay and ride out, For those of us who chose to live in Hurricane areas, we should be prepared to head warnings, just as those that live in Tornado areas are aware of the conditions that generate these deadly storms,

In every storm or disaster with a warning, those that ignore the warning compound the rescue effort for those unable to head the warnings...

Had the Mayor, used his influance and authority, the people could have been Bused out, instead of the much more costly Helocopter rescues, we see on TV, and I am complaining about the finacial cost but the rescue personnel cost, they could have concentrated the effort on those listed by You and Disagreeable had they not been "forced" to respond to the thousands who could have and should have left when told to.....
 

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this is ranchwifes 16 yr. old daughter :oops: , and my personal opinion probably doesn't matter much... but although the state and local governments haven't done much to help the katrina catastrophy, i believe bush should have stepped up and did something sooner... so no... i don't believe it was all bush's fault... but as OUR leader... he should have done made a better effort (as he did in the tsunami incident, for which i was very impressed) :clap: :clap:
 

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Good evening.....this is RANCHWIFE!! Now, maybe you know why we do not discuss politics in this house :wink: :wink: :wink: Gotta love a 16 year old who is not afraid to speak her mind....even if she knows she's gonna catch hell!! :?
 

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